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When the new RMT X350 compressor arrived, it was accompanied with pages of warnings about things that would void the warranty. Looking at the forum told stories of installations gone bad because stuff broke removing the old compressor. So I took it to the recommended independent shop to whom the Jag dealer points all older Jags. It took them an hour. However, on driving back to the carpark, I could hear the compressor when it switched on. Four days later when I started it up in the lockup (very quiet), the compressor was very loud; very un-Jag-like. I took it back to the indy shop and they opened it up, drained the air from the tank in the boot (trunk) and let me video the sound. See the video here
They showed me that all the springs and rubber dampers were in place. The sound was coming directly from the compressor.
The old compressor worked, but it was 17 years old and the car has 136,000 km on it. The hoses had a leak, and one air spring has already popped and been replaced by me, so I figured it was time to start replacing moving parts that do not last forever, like the compressor. Better to have a working spare in the garage than wait until it quits and then have the car down until a new one arrives in the post. But my old compressor was completely quiet. Incidentally, the old one is a WABCO, made in Germany, that appears to have been original to the car.
I wrote RMT 24 hours ago, asking them if this is normal for their new compressor, but they did not reply. So I am asking the forum.
Purchased Meisler Compressor that shook and vibrated it made all kinds of noise. thought it was my installation reinstalled it three times. It shook it self to death in less than a year.
If anyone has the time, would you be able to take a video of your compressor and then a screenshot of your phone with a sound meter? My Android phone has an app called Sound Meter - Decibel that does a decent job. I'm sure iPhones have something comparable. The best is to expose the pump by pulling back the plastic wheel wheel cover, but if we all just turned the tyre full lock and held the phone/db reader adjacent, but not touching the wheel well, this should be adequate to determine how loud the compressor pump is.
As this seems to be a more common problem, it is helpful if we as users begin to record objective data to determine if this is a design problem ("they all do it") or a quality control problem ("your's is quiet, mine - same brand and model - is loud"). Basically, we become the crowdsourcing equivalent of Consumer Reports.
I've sent a second email to RMT asking for a reply. No response as of yet.
And all cheap refabrications "ŕ la chinese" are crap..
Wabco has a cost, for a reason
It's a pity I only hear this now. A few weeks ago, I asked about compressors (see thread) and got an endorsement about RMT. The compressor they sold me has their name on it, and it says "assembled in USA" which gives the impression that it is not cheap refabrications "ŕ la chinese".
In my experience, cost does not always equate quality, but the closer a product is to the manufacturer, the higher it is priced. Not necessarily because it is better, but because its profit margins are higher. Then there are companies, indeed too often over represented by China, that cost less because they short on quality. But not always.
Thus, in asking the forum for guidance, members hope to benefit of those who have already been there. I try to make this a two-way street, posting my own experience for future members.
On the matter of the RMT compressor, I still am uncertain if I have a dud or if RMT prices are lower because they sell a poor quality product. It will cost too much to return, so I probably will rebuild my original unit and put this one on the shelf as a spare. It works, it's just too loud.
My question still stands. Is my RMT compressor sound normal for RMT compressors, and do other brands, like WABCO sound like this when they are new?
Mine is no louder than the one that was on the car.
Before or even after it started to give me issues.
Didn't mean to give you bad information.
Not a big fan of their rebuilt air shocks.
But their compressor works well.
Lifetime warranty for what its worth, came with mine.
Sounds loud to me, however you don't know how RMT has it built. It could be normal for them but not what we are used to hearing. I would double check that none of the mounting bushings got damaged or fell off etc.. causing a metal on metal vibration.
It's a pity I only hear this now. A few weeks ago, I asked about compressors (see thread) and got an endorsement about RMT.
Maybe because of e.g. the questions on RMT air springs to replace original Jaguar/Bilstein air springs.
People ask if they are worth, and when someone gives the advice to buy Bilstein B4's, the reply is usually "too expensive".
And that also concerns many other replacement pieces.
Some chinese fabrications may be worth but nobody knows before buying them or using them for some time.
Quite often when the cost is "too cheap", the quality is not there...
I guess the question here is whether an aftermarket compressor has to be quiet as well as maintain the pressures in the air system needed. If the compressor supplies the reservoir and the struts are airing up correctly, then technically it is doing its job even if it is louder than stock. I imagine it would be hard to beat an original WABCO unit. That said the RMT compressor is a new piece that comes with a warranty so if you can take the noise when it runs I would let it do its job. As far as rebuilt struts from RMT, I have not had the best of luck. I don't think it is necessarily RMT being bad at what they do, I just think it is getting harder to rebuild 15 plus year old units and have them 100% reliable. They seem hit or miss to me. I had 1 that failed two days after I installed it. I had another one that held air perfectly but the electronic dampening didn't work so it was basically no good on the car. I will say that RMT honored their warranty on rebuilds I bought from them, though shipping the faulty units back is always on your dime. However, after changing out rebuilds 3 times in 3 months last year I finally bought new Bilsteins. They were expensive money-wise yes but the time and frustration I spent dealing with the suspension went away and I have, knock on wood, been driving trouble free for over a year now. Best $1000.00 I spent my car.
That is loud compared to the original but the RMT is not original. They most likely are RMT labeled wholesale units. I had dealt with RMT on replacement shocks I purchased (had one blow out within 10 minutes) and they always emailed me back. I have a thread on the whole ordeal and warranty hassle I had because I bought from CarID which is absolutely the worst customer service I have ever dealt with. Period. So, if you purchased through RMT they will refund or replace the item if it meets their conditions. On compressors the condition is that the warranty is void if you have not recently replaced all air shocks. I really don't see anyone replacing all 4 at the same time so take their warranty however you will. But if you purchased a RMT unit from somewhere other than RMT you are at the mercy of that seller as I was with my purchase. CarID said they could not refund unless RMT approved it and RMT said that once they sold the shock to CarID it was no longer their problem and to deal with them. I purchased shocks elsewhere and eventually got my refund about 30 days later. I would do exactly as you described, rebuild the original compressor (using bagpipeandys kit) and keep for backup.
I got up early this morning (16-hour time difference) and rang RMT using my US phone (ah the wonders of modern technology). Apparently they get thousands of emails, and as I provided full background detail, mine was long enough to get buried in the digital equivalent of the stacked-high inbox.
Her first response was for me to send it back, but I explained that shipping costs from NZ are prohibitive, and I explained I was not complaining, but asking if the sound was normal. She said she would forward it on to the technical department. I followed up with a link to the video and a very short description of the problem, and my request for information. Basically, I want to know if the sound is normal, or if I got a dud.
The other problem with the unit was that the air tube popped out within half a kilometre. Immediately returned it to the shop who discovered the quick-connect fitting inside the unit was missing. They took the old fitting from the Wabco unit and that solved the problem. Now after sitting a few days, the front end remains at proper height, so no leaks. I asked RMT to send me the fitting, as it looks like I will order the bagpipeandy kit, follow the instructions on cooking the desiccant, and reinstall the Wabco unit myself, putting the RMT unit on the shelf.
The fact the quick connect fitting was missing leads me to suspect this was a unit someone ordered, found it was noisy, returned as a new unit, but pulled the quick connect fitting off to get the hose out and probably destroyed it. Rather than tell RMT, the unknowing warehouse restocked it, and I was the lucky guy to get it. This is pure speculation on my part, but I have seen it happen enough to be a possibility.
Do I understand you still have the original wabco? If so, the cheapest and best way to get back on the road is to buy a rebuild kit: https://www.bagpipingandy.com/
No affiliation etc. I did the refurbish when mine was getting tired, fixed and stayed fixed for the next 3 years until I sold the car.
Do I understand you still have the original wabco? If so, the cheapest and best way to get back on the road is to buy a rebuild kit: https://www.bagpipingandy.com/
No affiliation etc. I did the refurbish when mine was getting tired, fixed and stayed fixed for the next 3 years until I sold the car.
Yes, I kept the old Wabco and yesterday ordered a rebuild kit from bagpippingandy.
I also spoke with RMT on the phone to ask why the email had not been answered and the lady said she would pass it on to Tech. No reply as of yet. I confirmed in a follow-up email that I wanted to know if the pump noise is normal, or was it unusually loud.
I also asked for a replacement quick-connect fixture since it did not come with one, and the air hose connector had to be taken from the old Wabco. I will have to remove the old connector from the RMT when I reinstall the rebuilt Wabco so I need the RMT unit to be complete, even if it is noisy.
I won't return the RMT because shipping is too expensive from NZ to make it worthwhile. It works, and I will keep it on the shelf to have an instant backup in the event my XJ6's Wabco fails, or when I buy my next X350 (looking for a like-new 2006-8 dealer-maintained "widows car" at a reasonable price)
Properly, if RMT says it is unusually noisy, they should just send me an inspected new one and not ask for the old one back, but from what I read about RMT, they are a tight family-run business that does not book good will as an asset on their books, so I will just live and learn. I've paid more for tuition in the school of hard knocks than $280, so it won't kill me.
My hunch is that someone bought this compressor from RMT, found it was noisy, removed it from their car, but discarded the quick connect (probably damaged during removal), sent the unit back and RMT restocked it without checking. Pure speculation, but it would seem logical.
I considered rebuilding the Wabco in the beginning, but because I am so far away, if anything goes wrong, I am without a car for weeks at a time. Also, the rebuild kit does not come with dry desiccant, and I was not looking forward to removing the old and cooking it in the oven. Had the RMT been a plug and play, as represented, that would have been the smart way to go. Now that it is turning out to not be, I'm going with plan B, but know that I have a noisy backup in the event I screw up the Wabco, or something breaks - as can happen with a 17 year old car.
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This might be a better prospect if the bore is worn like the one from my 04 is.
I rebuilt the original Wabco twice. First time it worked okay for a few months. Second time it barely was better, low volume. Bore seemed fine. But might have been bleeder.
The Missler was nice, could hear it turn on, run, and shut off. It said made in Germany and looked identical to Wabco. After a year found a deal on an Arnott (Wabco) and never fiddled with again.
Got good at swapping these. Installed the original twice, the Missler four times (kept hoping it was install making the noise) and now the new Wabco.
It's been a week since RMT said they would have the tech department reply (after I rang the Florida number and spoke to two ladies to ask what happened to my email). No response yet. I sent a followup email last week, and another just now (Monday evening Florida time).
The other day I loaded a sound meter app onto my cell phone. The RMT compressor seems to add about 5 dB inside the cabin, meaning 60 dB while driving and 65dB when the compressor goes on. The best way to check is in the garage at idle, but now that the leak is fixed, the pump does not switch on until I am driving.
I did get an email from RMT asking me to rate their product... I will wait to see how this all turns out before doing so. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, but will keep documenting their responsiveness or lack thereof.
Well, I suppose the RMT saga is over, at least the part dealing with RMT. Now I have to rebuild my old one, install it myself and write off US$85 in shipping, NZ$100 in installation and some wasted time. Here's the summary so others can benefit from my experience. .
Based on forum feedback I ordered a RMT compressor. Good price, fast delivery to New Zealand
Decided to have Europa Motors, the Auckland dealer-recommended independent shop install it, as reports say its easy to break bolts on old units, and I did not want to be stuck with a broken car awaiting parts
I picked up the car, drove out and within moments the air springs dropped and the warning message came on
Took it back and they found the quick connect fitting was missing, thus the air tube pops out as soon as there is pressure.
They took my old unit and used that quick connect fitting. Fixed the problem.
As soon as the pump came on while driving I heard it. Sounded like a mild jack hammer.
I emailed RMT. They did not reply.
With a time-zone difference, I called them. Darlene says they get thousands of emails a day so many get missed.
She found mine and said she would pass it on to technical. I asked two questions: Is the noise normal? Would they please send me the missing part?
I then followed up with a short email confirming the call. No reply.
Sent a second email a week later. No reply.
Yesterday I got up early and called. Darlene said the tech guy said the noise was abnormal, and I could either return the unit or live with it.
In regard to the missing part, I speculated that the pump had been sold to a customer who returned it because of the noise, and in removing it from their car removed the quick connect because it is not easy to save as new... and the pump was returned to stock and sent to me without the quick connect.
Darlene replied that all units are completely inspected before sending out, suggesting this was impossible.
Never-the-less, before sending out the part, she asked me to send a photo of it.
I explained that I could not send a photo of something missing, so she told me to take a photo of what is left on the old unit.
Darlene also told me to send the email during their working hours. If it arrived during the night when they were closed, it would not get read.
I took the WABCO pump back to the shop and they showed me - see the photo I sent Darlene
I sent the photo and the email below this morning
Immediately they replied, refunding me the purchase price (but not the $85 shipping) of the RMT unit
Then they replied, writing "Hi we in senior management have decided to simply refund you for the part and we part ways from here. Have a great day."
So now, I will need to order the missing parts from someone, to rebuild the WABCO with the https://www.bagpipingandy.com/ kit I ordered two weeks ago (arrived from UK in a week).
Here is my analysis of RMT.
They are a family business who has no understanding of customer relations. If they get thousands of emails, either they should hire people to answer them, or analyse why so many. My email was because (a) parts were missing and (b) the unit was not performing as expected. Thus, their problem begins with quality control. Control the quality, get fewer emails.
Next when a customer does have a problem, fix it. Lose money if need be, because fixing it and making a happy customer means the expense becomes good will, moved into the public relations budget.
Forums never reflect reality when it comes to problems with cars. Who writes about their car working great? Thus, it is hard to determine if RMT is a bad company to be avoided, or I was unlucky with the part. What is clear however, is RMT's lack of empathy for the people paying their wages, earning them their margins.
My advice: Price is good and may work for American customers where shipping is not so expensive. For overseas customers, make sure you have a US telephone and accept you may have complications. But it's not like dealing with China where there is no recourse when things go wrong. My experience with RMT was not good, and the final reply accompanying the refund was snarky. Good manners cost nothing, and leaving a customer feeling as if they did something wrong is unprofessional.
Years ago, at our local library, John Sculley, formerly CEO of Apple and Pepsi gave a lecture on why American carmakers were pummelled by Japan and the lesson they learned from Toyota and Honda:
Japan did four things:
Best product
Lowest price
Best relationship with customer
Give something away for free (such as free coffee cup holders)
At the same time, American companies would do one of the above, but never all four. It was a hard lesson to learn.
I will be sending a link of this forum to RMT, but doubt if they will take the time to read it. They will be too busy with their thousands of emails. .
.
Rebuild Master Tech wrote on 25/05/2021 4:19 PM:
Hi we in senior management have decided to simply refund you for the part and we part ways from here. Have a great day.
==========================
On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 4:06 PM 2004XJ6 > wrote:
Hi Darlene,
Here is a photo of the old WABCO compressor pump with the red arrow pointing to what the mechanic had to remove to put on the new RMT unit so the air tube would hold in.
The RMT unit came with the brass fitting and the white plastic temporary plug, so it looked like the photo in the accompanying RMT instructions. The mechanic took out the plug and inserted the air tube, as per RMT instructions (noting the mechanic shop does these compressors on Jags, Audi's, etc, all the time as all the dealers send customers to them).
The air tube popped out within a few blocks. On returning to the shop, the mechanic and the shop owner immediately put the car up and inspected. They found there was no quick connect fitting behind the brass part. The mechanic says the fitting on the old part is not intended to be reused, but having done so many they know how to twist them during removal so they can be reused. He took the whole part off the old WABCO unit and put it on the new RMT. That sealed it and it works now. However, problem #2 means I need you to send the missing part.
Problem #2 is the noise of the compressor. Inside the cabin, when it switches on, it is far too loud while driving. Your technicians tell you this level of noise is abnormal for your product. Looking at owner-forum reports on the Internet. members say noisy units do not last. This makes sense because they are not operating smoothly. Loud noise means something was machined wrong or assembled wrong.
Properly, RMT should, at no charge to me, just send me a new unit that they first bench test to make sure it is not missing parts and is not noisy - and due to the cost of international postage, just ask me to toss the first RMT in the trash. And I do ask your senior management consider that in this case. I am documenting every step along the way in the Jaguar Forum, with no judgement as of yet. I suggest it would be in RMT's business interest to make good.
But if that sensible approach is not the culture of RMT, at a minimum I need RMT to send me the missing parts. Please send me everything that screws into or fits behind the threaded hole shown in the photo.
05-10-2021, 10:16 PM
New RMT Compressor, is this sound normal?
Have one to sell? Sell now- Have one to sell?
