XJ XJ6 / XJ8 / XJR ( X350 & X358 ) 2003 - 2009

No Start - No Shift - Multiple Fault Messages

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  #61  
Old 01-24-2015, 04:37 PM
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this car is going to kill me...
 
  #62  
Old 01-24-2015, 04:46 PM
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OK, found the label on the column. IT is on the top and the column has to be lowered to access it. Fun!
 

Last edited by Mac Allan; 01-24-2015 at 04:53 PM.
  #63  
Old 01-24-2015, 05:09 PM
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Fingers crossed!
 
  #64  
Old 01-24-2015, 05:16 PM
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Sigh...

Finished the reflash of the instrument cluster. Put the steering column back up.

STILL NO START

BTW, while I was doing the IP reflash I got the following message:

"Unable to clear all codes

Diagnostic trouble code 0x9202 has been read from the IP.

Use the diagnostic trouble code monitor to view the stored diagnostic trouble codes."

As far as I can find, it isn't even a DTC listed anywhere

[throws hands up]

I don't even know what to do next
 
  #65  
Old 01-24-2015, 05:39 PM
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I believe that 0x9202 = B1202

B1202 is RH Fuel Level Sensor Circuit Fault

RH fuel level sensor circuits, open circuit
RH fuel level sensor SCP message error
RH fuel level sensor failure
Check REM for flagged DTC

The Engineering Test Mode will indicate many of the vehicle DTCs however it will only show faults detected during continuous operation and not self test faults. Because of this it should not be considered as a replacement for an OBDII code reader required to read the standard DTCs.

The codes are presented in hexadecimal format, the Most Significant Bit will be a number or letter 1,9,A,D or E, followed by 3 Decimal digits.

The first hex digit corresponds directly to the DTC code identifying the system related to the trouble code.

1XXX relates to Enhanced (manufacturer specific) codes P1
9XXX relates to Body Enhanced (manufacturer specific) codes B1
AXXX relates to Body Enhanced (manufacturer specific) codes B2
DXXX relates to Undefined (manufacturer specific) codes U1
EXXX relates to Undefined (manufacturer specific) codes U2

The last 3 digits are in Decimal and relate directly to the DTC code. i.e D900 = U1900 which is a CAN bus fault.
The numbers can relate to a number of different problems (like the example above) so should only be used as a guide. The use of a DTC code reader is the best way to recover diagnosis codes and information.
You should also be able to see this code when you go into the Engineering Test Mode on the instrument cluster. Hold down the Trip button on the Indicator stalk and turn the ignition to position 2, keep holding for a few seconds and then release. You should see the various information in the message center under the speedometer. Cycle through by pressing the button on the indicator stalk. If that code shows up then it's gotta be related to the fuel level sensor.

have a look here http://jaguar.bttlxe.com/xtype/Addit...%20Cluster.pdf in the X350 XJ section, #15 "DTC's" and also check #22-#26 it gives you the values for the fuel measurement, if any of those are maxed out then it's a sign that the fuel level sensor is duff.
 
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  #66  
Old 01-24-2015, 05:56 PM
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Thanks Cambo351

So if I read that right, it's just related to the fuel level sensor, which is no surprise. Our fuel gauge works only when it feels like, and has since we've owned it. It was a rather spendy repair so I just reset the trip odometer whenever I fill up to know approximately how much fuel is in the tank. Usually when the tank is below 1/4 it starts to register correctly, so it was never worth fixing.

THAT however doesn't explain that it won't start.
 

Last edited by Mac Allan; 01-24-2015 at 06:18 PM.
  #67  
Old 01-24-2015, 06:27 PM
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Let's go back a step.

You said it's got the code B2139 - Engine control module identification does not match instrument cluster. Possible causes: Reconfigure instrument cluster

If that's what's causing the no-start (which it certainly looks that way) then the problem is that you cannot reflash the Instrument Cluster if there are other errors, like the fuel level gauge being open-circuit.
 
  #68  
Old 01-24-2015, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Cambo351
Let's go back a step.

You said it's got the code B2139 - Engine control module identification does not match instrument cluster. Possible causes: Reconfigure instrument cluster

If that's what's causing the no-start (which it certainly looks that way) then the problem is that you cannot reflash the Instrument Cluster if there are other errors, like the fuel level gauge being open-circuit.
Except it appears the reflash was successful re: B2139

I cleared the DTCs and did a refresh and now I have NO DTCs listed under Related Events with Selected Symptom being 'no start, cranking speed normal'

It's still a mystery why I get the red message center light, but no corresponding message.
 
  #69  
Old 01-24-2015, 07:55 PM
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Well that's got me stumped.

If the electronic side of things is ok (i.e. no codes) then we are back to the old-school non-starter; problem with fuel, spark or air.

Just a random thought, check the emergency fuel cutoff switch in the a-pillar?

Then checking fuel; pressure at the rail? (you should be able to see this via OBD or in the datalogger of the SDD) are the injectors firing?

And then spark, not sure how you would check that with a coil-on-plug setup...would putting a timing light on the coil wiring pick up the pulsing?

I don't know what else to check right now...
 
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Old 01-24-2015, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Cambo351

Just a random thought, check the emergency fuel cutoff switch in the a-pillar?
I checked it several times over the course of this, but out of curiosity I used the datalogger to check what the system thinks the inertia switch is communicating.

It says the switch is "ON", but I can't tell from the schematic if that is 'cut off power' or 'power ok', so I tested Fuse 1 in the cabin fuse box and it is getting 12v so I'm assuming that "ON" means 'good to go'...?

Then checking fuel; pressure at the rail? (you should be able to see this via OBD or in the datalogger of the SDD) are the injectors firing?

And then spark, not sure how you would check that with a coil-on-plug setup...would putting a timing light on the coil wiring pick up the pulsing?
As I mentioned before, the REM isn't grounding the fuel pump, so there is no fuel pressure at the rail. Both the Red and Yellow wire coming from the REM going to the fuel pump test at 12v. One of the two has to be switched to ground for the fuel pump to function.

The problem is does the REM have a burnt transistor (that it didn't have when this all started) that is preventing it from grounding the pump, or is the ECM telling it not to run the fuel pump?

Playing with the datalogger, trying to see what signals the ECM is sending the REM, I get the following:

Fuel Pump Duty Cycle to the REM - 74.9%
Modulated Fuel Pump Duty Cycle - 75%
Fuel Pump Duty Cycle 2 - 0%

Is that 0% problematic? I have no idea and I'm trying to research it, even though I have no idea what Fuel Pump Duty Cycle 2 might be.
 
  #71  
Old 01-24-2015, 08:57 PM
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If anyone has an ideas, or suggestions like "use the datalogger and measure X" ...

...I'm all ears. Thanks.
 
  #72  
Old 01-24-2015, 09:15 PM
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Ah yeah I forgot you mentioned the fuel pump not running earlier.

Seems very unlikely that the ECU would not be telling the REM to run the pump, since the communication is over the SCP network, you would have all or nothing. Unless the REM itself has an internal problem like you say, maybe something burnt.

I think you already checked it, but what about the fuel pump relay, fuse and diode in the Rear Power Distribution Fuse Box?

EDIT

I also think that it's no co-incidence that you have a problem with a fuel level sensor, as well as the fuel pump not running, and both of those are controlled by the REM.
 

Last edited by Cambo; 01-24-2015 at 09:19 PM.
  #73  
Old 01-24-2015, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Cambo351
I think you already checked it, but what about the fuel pump relay, fuse and diode in the Rear Power Distribution Fuse Box?
Yes I checked, but I did again anyway. Fuse 33 in the Rear Power Distribution box measures 12+v, so the relay and diode check out.


EDIT

I also think that it's no co-incidence that you have a problem with a fuel level sensor, as well as the fuel pump not running, and both of those are controlled by the REM.
I'm sorry I wasn't clear. The fuel level sensor has been intermittent for *years*, and is a well known fault with first year production cars. There was a warranty TSB to fix it, but the previous owner obviously never got it done and by the time I got the car it was out of warranty. So I think we can ignore that.
 

Last edited by Mac Allan; 01-24-2015 at 11:24 PM. Reason: I'm tired and make mistakes
  #74  
Old 01-24-2015, 11:35 PM
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I found this one on a Motorcraft service site (aka Ford), which should also apply since the Jaguar and Ford diagnostics are kissing cousins.




So, if I understand that correctly, a 75% signal actually is telling the REM to shut off fuel...?

Is this a clue that the ECM is shutting off the fuel pump?
 
  #75  
Old 01-24-2015, 11:41 PM
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Seems to make sense? I don't know, this is getting over my head.
 
  #76  
Old 01-24-2015, 11:47 PM
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It's over your head?

Holy crap, your head is way higher than mine...
 
  #77  
Old 01-25-2015, 12:00 AM
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Let's say that the Ford values also apply to Jag. IF the ECU is really telling the REM to not run the fuel pump, then the question is, why? There must be a reason why...
 
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  #78  
Old 01-25-2015, 12:12 AM
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Cambo351,

Aside from my increasing frustration about this, I'd like to take a minute to tell you I really appreciate your sticking with this and trying to help.
 
  #79  
Old 01-25-2015, 12:20 AM
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Cambo351,

Check out this thread:

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...c-fixed-67541/

This is why I asked about the "Immobilisation" thing. Is there something the dealer techs are told to do that isn't obvious to us?
 
  #80  
Old 01-25-2015, 10:02 AM
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If the RECM isn't turning the pump on, any chance the car has immobilised on purpose (but wrongly/annoyingly)? I think you'd see some P1xxx code(s) in the PCM.
 


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