I don;t know about the front shocks, but I changed my right rear in 25 minutes. When I change the left one I figure about 15 minutes, and that's with the extra caliper to remove on the XJR. I can't imaging the front taking more than half an hour.

 

Yes, a quote of 5 hours labor to change a front air spring shock seems very excessive to me.

 

It's your money... not mine - but I will say this - if anyone tried handing me a bill like that for a tensioner and belt change (not that I would ever go to a dealership for such a simple job) I would tell them to go wipe their A** with that invoice and give me the real invoice...

Best bet as already mentioned - find a local indy that can get the work done saving you a wad of cash...

 

Yes, I won't be getting my repairs at the dealership anymore.

 

The unfortunate aspect of Jaguar is that Jaguar Corporate does not set standard pricing accross the board, rather each dealership is allowed to charge their own price on both labor and parts and the dispariety between dealerhips can be great.

 

That would be horrible for dealerships and probably consumers as well! Some sort of price averaging would surely be used.....meaning some customers would pay more so others can pay less.

Meanwhile, dealer operating costs can be vastly different. They have to be allowed pricing strategies that work for them, not a dealer 5 states away.

In the end it's the same old story: if pricing is consistently too high they'll lose customers and go broke. If pricing is consistently too low they'll be unable to show a profit and go broke.

Cheers
DD

 

As a rule dealers use the factory labor time manuals only on warranty repairs, as per the franchise rules.

For everything else they essentially charge whatever they think the market will bear....pretty much like any other business.

Some dealers (and indies) use other time guides (Chilton, AllData, whatever). Some pretty much pull the labor times right out of their.....well.....you know

Cheers
DD



Cheers
DD

 

Yes, but that is the point ---if you know the time that Jaguar pay for a given repair even if it is for warranty then you have some idea of the Jaguar's expectation of the time required to perform the task and have chance to negotiate a reasonable time for your repair.


The hourly rate is a different matter. common sense rules.

 

My local main agent has a special deal for owners of cars over four years old. 10% off parts and 25% off labour, but you don't get a courtesy car. Its called Regency Club and I still have my card, although it's still more than my local indie on labour.

 

I would be the last person likely to defend a dealer. However, the 6hrs might not be out of line. My tensioner was also squealing. I figured I would change it out myself, as it is a simple bolt-on part. My local parts store wanted about $75 for a replacement - it is a common part number used on various Fords, Acuras, etc. But when I went out to size up the job, I wasn't so sure I wanted to tackle it. The tensioner is basically buried under the overflow tank and numerous coolant hoses and the belt. You can't even SEE it. I reckon that it would probably take at least a couple hours of disassembly to get access to it. It might be more accessible from the bottom, but I couldn't confirm that with that infernal plastic under tray in place and I wasn't feeling like dealing with that at the time.

Instead, I fastened a long tube to the nozzle of a can of spray oil, and bent a angle about an inch from the bottom end. I snaked this through the maze of hoses and belts and applied a generous blast of oil inside the pulley up near the snout where the bearing would be. Even this little trick took me about 45 minutes to successfully complete, as working room is non-existent.

Did it work? Yep, for now at least. It's only a stopgap measure until I can evaluate the situation from underneath the car.

 

Well, ParkPlace Jaguar in plano apparently charges $149 per hour. Three hours to drop steering column and repack wires. It's working now, but seems excessive to me. Anyways, I got a loaner car for three days, so I guess it's all a wash. I'm just happy the car and it's systems are functioning as it should. I'm really going to have to think twice next time something goes wrong though. I can live with 60 or even 70 per hour, but $149 is hard to swallow.

 

Just for the heck of it I checked out the Park Place dealerships. They look pretty darn swank, as one would expect. I'm guessing they're all newer facilities lots of mahogony desks, marble floors, and big chandeliers. Not 40 year old building with plastic folding chairs in the waiting room. Very possibly coffee bars and internet access in the customer lounge. We know they have free loaner cars.

And, they're probably (at least fairly) well staffed with employees who are paid (at least fairly) well paid and have decent benefit packages.

I'm sure you can see where I'm going here

How do you think they pay for all this? By charging the same lower rate as an independant with a fraction of the operating expense?

Labor rates at very ordinary Ford and Chevy dealerships here in Po-dunk, blue-collar Longview were nudging $100/hour 5 years ago when I left the business.

$149/hour is more than I could ever afford but in the grand scheme of things doesn't seem all that unreasonable to me.


Cheers
DD

 

Took the car to an indy shop that specializes in Jaguars for a second opinion and quote. Will post the difference when I get it in writing to compare to the dealership quote I was given.

As I said before, my issue with the dealership isn't the higher hourly rate for labor, as I know they have high overhead costs, but rather the number of hours they say each task takes them to complete - way longer than it would take anybody.

I discussed the dealership visit with the indy garage owner. He said he would examine the car himself, but he did say the 'replace rear differential leaking seal and replace differential fluid' that the dealership quoted as a $900 job he would normally charge $500 for doing. He also said that if someone (not me I hope) wanted two front air springs replaced on an X350 the total hours for that would be half what the dealership said it would take them - 5 hours labor for both springs at his shop instead of the 10 hours time the dealership quoted. He said it takes him 2.5 hours per air spring, compared to the dealership's quote of 5 hours per air spring.

I'll let you know the final quote when I get it.

 

To be honest I think the best way to shop for repairs is to forget labor hours and hourly rates entirely. You *pay* the invoice in *dollars*.

One shop might charge 5 hours @ $100 hour = $500. The next might be 4 hours @ $125 = $500. The next could be 8 hours @ $62.50 = $500

But.....

If you get a quote of $300 from a shop you like do you care if he bills it as 3 hours @ $100/hour or 6 hours @ $50/hour ? Of course not. $300 is $300 not matter how you slice it....and $300 is a lot less than the $500 quoted by the first three shops !

The 'labor hours' thing is a snare. Virtually meaningless in terms of actual repair time spent on the car. Factory labor times are notoriously low and a constant bone of contention. Labor time guide publishers simply take the factory time an apply a multiplier. Repairs shops (dealer or otherwise) often take those times and apply their own matrix. Many shops have variable labor hour matrixes (and variable hourly rates, as well) depending on the nature/difficulty of the work or brand or model of car.

Cheers
DD

 

+1 on Dougs comments from me.

I'm still stuck on $150 labour rates......thats only around £90 and a real bargain lol.

To put things into perspecctive, my local Audi dealer here charges £125 per hour, which works out at around $205!!

The local Indy I have usd several times recently is a little better at £60 or around $99 per hour

 

Re: Jim and Doug.

I agree the end of the day invoice is the main thing, but hourly rates matter when one place gives required hours that are double the time another place quotes.

The local dealership labor rate is $144/hr, the local Jaguar indy place labor rate is $105/hr. However, the dealer says a job will take 10 hours, and the indy place says the job will take 5 hours. The parts component = not much difference if using Jaguar branded parts, so the labor portion is the main determining factor in the final invoice.

Update (good news): The indy called me today and said as regards the air suspension fault code the two front air springs were inspected and tested and seem totally fine to him (the ones the dealer said were both leaking and needed replacement) and only the compressor is the issue. Hmmm, well, considering the dealer wanted over $4k to replace those two air springs , yes, the indy telling me the air springs are NOT leaking and don't need to be replaced is good news. He said they test drove the car in the cold this morning (about 10F here) and the front end started okay but went completely down during the drive producing a fault light while driving around the block. They said the compressor seal is possibly the cause but they would test the compressor more to see if the bagpipe Andy solution could fix it or if a new compressor was needed and would let me know their findings.

Also, as regards the heater core issue (standard hot air on passenger side/cold air driver's side X350 issue that is discussed on the forum a lot) they suggested a core flush. The dealer tech said in the past in his experience flushing doesn't work. The indy said their shop's experience is the flush works 50% of the time and they do it a lot and have a knack for it and is cheap to do. I was skeptical. He said they wouldn't charge me any labor for doing the heater core flush if it didn't work, only if it did work, so I said okay, try the flush. They called back an hour later and said the flush worked and the heat now works on both passenger and driver's side of the car, no dashboard removal or heater core replacement required, so I was in the lucky 50% of owners in that coin toss.

If the car was under warranty, I wouldn't complain at the dealer solution of just replacing everything, air springs, compressor, etc - better safe than sorry and it isn't my money. However, if I am paying for everything and the air springs are not leaking, then $4k to replace them to be on the safe side isn't overly palatable.