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I've only been using the Global key-in-door method. The console button doesn't appear to do anything.
Global down works regardless of whether you have 12v or not on the Enable wire.
Global Up on my car never works. (And I don't know under what voltage circumstances it's supposed to work. i.e. I don't how it's designed to work electrically.)
Have you performed the learn routine for all of the windows? The sunroof, as far as I know, doesn't require it, which may explain why it may be working on global close. In case you haven't done it and you don't know how, just lower each window all the way, and then raise them, continuing to hold the up switch for two seconds after they are fully closed. I usually do these in pairs, front pair and rear pair. Maybe this will correct the global closing problem.
If, after you've completed the routine, you have one-touch down and one-touch up, the module has successfully learned the windows. I am guessing that you weren't able to do this since your window switches weren't working, but now that you have figured out that you can operate the windows through switches when you supply +12 v to the enable-wire you should be able to do this. If it works, this will give you the ability to raise and lower your windows until you find the true source of the problem.
I think the window reset procedure only activates the obstruction safety logic.
It's meant to be done whenever the battery is disconnected.
I guess if the Global Close feature had a shut-out logic built in so that if the windows weren't reset it wouldn't work, then it might affect it.
I'll go out and see if it makes a difference.
Yeah, both true. Also, I know that the global up/down is momentary and not latched. I was thinking more about what is different between the sunroof and windows, and the need for the completion of the learn routine was what came to mind. Fingers crossed, nonetheless!
OK, I just did the window reset procedure on all windows (well, not the passenger one because it's all disconnected.)
Here's what then happened:
With no 12v applied to the red Enable wire all windows opened and closed using the Global key function (the interior global button just looked pretty but did diddly squat!)
With 12v applied to the red Enable wire the Global feature did NOT work. But all my individual window switches would function.
Conclusion: The Global Close feature is inhibited unless you have performed the window reset.
This is good news for me as a temporary measure, because it means I have a method of closing all my windows until I find why the Enable wire is not activated.
Mark
No, there appears to be no connection between the mustard (visor supply wire) and the window Enable wires (or even the red/blue Global wire.)
But, that was a good idea because it shows that in the section of loom that I can't reach there's no contact.
I wanted to check whether the FEM was sending the Enable output to 12v but it's tucked away down by the driver's pedals and I think I'd have to extract it and pull off about 5 electrical connectors just to see which output pin it is, and the connectors don't pull off easily.
It would be nice if there was some other soft reason why the windows are not being enabled, like you have to stroke the Jaguar on the hood 3 times!
I'm going to put out another theory here:
Assuming that the ignition switch is on pos 1 or 2, is it true that someone has to be inside the car for the windows to operate from any of the window switches?
I'm asking this of course, because the car has 4 occupancy sensors, 3 of which have wires that run alongside in the same sheath as my melted wire.
Or, put another way, if you were to disconnect an occupancy sensor, would the windows still be operable from any of the switches?
This might be a reason why the red Enable wire never gets sent 12v.
I could see the logic where for security purposes you might want to implement this logic. Whether or not Jaguar did so, I don't know.
Maybe someone could stand outside their car with the window down and the ignition key on 1 and reach in to see if the window switch still operated?
I'm going to put out another theory here:
Assuming that the ignition switch is on pos 1 or 2, is it true that someone has to be inside the car for the windows to operate from any of the window switches?
I'm asking this of course, because the car has 4 occupancy sensors, 3 of which have wires that run alongside in the same sheath as my melted wire.
Or, put another way, if you were to disconnect an occupancy sensor, would the windows still be operable from any of the switches?
This might be a reason why the red Enable wire never gets sent 12v.
I could see the logic where for security purposes you might want to implement this logic. Whether or not Jaguar did so, I don't know.
Maybe someone could stand outside their car with the window down and the ignition key on 1 and reach in to see if the window switch still operated?
I think you had a fantastic hypothesis, but I tried it and my windows operate with the switches from outside the vehicle from all doors.
Like you, I was suspecting that the 'enable' wires are acting as an inhibitor/promoter, for both the normal operation (promote when ignition on) of the windows through the switches and for the global operation (inhibit when ignition on). That is what makes the most sense to me based on what you have described.
Can you access these wires in the A-pillar on the passenger side? If so, I will probe them later today and report what I find. If not I have a passenger door mirror that I have to swap out sometime soon. When I do, I can also check the wires inside the door for the 'enable' wire to see how it behaves.
If it is an inhibitor/promoter circuit, then I should see (+) 12 volts under normal switch operating conditions and nothing or ground when the ignition is turned off. If this is the case, maybe you can get by for the time being with an ignition signal to the enable circuit, and that might replicate the normal operation until you check the FEM.
OK, thanks for testing that out. I appreciate the increased knowledge. Hopefully it's one step closer to a solution.
I have the wires on the passenger A-pillar all exposed so it's easy to take voltage or resistance reading.
My replacement passenger door mirror is supposed to be delivered today along with a used headliner wiring loom.
Regarding the red Enable wire, as I mentioned previously, it never changes. It's 0v under all circumstances. And that's why I thought there might be some other condition that is not being met, causing the FEM to never activate it. But the only condition I know about is "Ignition key must be in position 1, 2 or 3".
This is where I am now stuck. Either the FEM is bad OR there is some other inhibiting condition that I have not yet discovered.
It seems strange that the FEM would go bad right as the headliner loom problem occured. And if I posit that the fried sun-visor wire damaged the FEM, that makes no sense because the FEM only sends two wires up into the roof and both of those are happy with 12v on them.
To trick the Enable wire on I could put in a jumper on the passenger door Window module connector that links the 12v on the big Red/Brown motor supply wire to the Enable pin.
I think the Red/Brown is always live. The only negative would be loss of the Global function which would be inhibited.
To trick the Enable wire on I could put in a jumper on the passenger door Window module connector that links the 12v on the big Red/Brown motor supply wire to the Enable pin.
I think the Red/Brown is always live. The only negative would be loss of the Global function which would be inhibited.
That is why I think running an ignition or accessory signal would be best. Also, I am concerned there could be a draw on the red/brown wire causing a battery drain. It's probably not going to draw any current at all, but you never know with the complexities of this car. You could just run an ignition wire to the A-pillar. It would be easy to grab it from the stereo, or if you want true ignition, you would normally get that from the ignition switch.
I would go with a relay if you did go the ignition switch route, to make sure that the red enable wires never send a +12 volts back to the ignition circuit when the car is off (you could instead use a diode, but I prefer to isolate with a relay). The reason I bring up the more complicated true ignition, is that you may not want your window operation interrupted when you start the car, i.e., if you begin to roll down the windows with the ignition off and then decide to start the car while the roll down is in progress.
What I am wondering, is if the red enable wire is normally showing + 12 volts with the ignition on, but in your case it isn't because of a problem elsewhere. We'll find out when I get a chance to probe mine.
I will check back in later today to report my findings.
Throughout all this, I still don't know how the Global open/close works electrically. We do know that it is inhibited by 12v on the Enable pin and also won't close if the window reset procedure has not been done.
But what tells the sunroof and windows to Open?
There's one wire from the FEM to all 5 devices and it's labelled 'Global'. But on my car it seems to be stuck on 12v all the time. How does it signal OPEN and then CLOSE?
I've no idea. But it does somehow even on my messed up car with no roof wiring loom!
From the Electrical Guide: GLOBAL CLOSE SIGNAL: 20ms PULSED SIGNAL
This means there is receiving electronics as well as transmitting electronics, so sticking 12v on things would seem dangerous.
20ms pulsed signal? OK, that would explain how it signals Open and Close on one wire.
Not sure how that signal is carried because my DC volt meter read 12v on that Global wire and I don't have the means to read a pulsed signal.
But anyway, I'm happy to let it pulse away because it works. Any insight from the Electrical Guide on what is supposed to be on the Enable wire?
My window switches are all dead unless I apply 12v on it. What the FEM is supposed to do, I don't know. But whatever it is, it's not happening.
Mark
Okay, here are the results: I probed this red wire in one of the passenger A-pillar looms. Ignition in the 1 or 2 position produces a +12 volts and in the off position I read a ground. I used a logic probe, so I do not have actual voltage measurements.
Soooooo, I am not fully certain what this means. Assuming this is the correct wire, it seems to be a binary signal to allow either your windows to operate through the switches or the global circuit. I only wonder if there are other conditions where this wire might inhibit switch control or if you would be safe running a fused ignition or accessory signal to this wire.
Yes, that looks exactly right. The bundle of wires you probed goes just to the sunroof. I can see the Global red/blue wire at the bottom of the bundle.
What this means is that your car is generating 12v on the enable wire and mine is not!!
You see ChrisMills post above describing a pulsed signal on the global wire. I wonder if the Enable wire is also pulsed?
Anyway, I'm still stuck because I don't know what's inhibiting the FEM from giving me the Enable voltage.
On a side issue, I realize the center console Lock/Global button operates only when all the doors are closed. You then hold it for 2 seconds after locking to do Global window close and similarly after unlocking for global opening. And mine works fine, now that I have done the window reset.
Yeah, I did see Chris' message and I am not certain what it means either, in terms of this particular wire, and I am not sure what is meant by 'pulse'. I wonder if pulse simply means a momentary signal, or if it means pulse width modulated, in which case it is not a simple 12 volt switched circuit. It is very curious that your global circuit is functioning normally, but the global wire is a constant + 12 volts... When I get another chance I will probe my global wire to see if mine is + 12 volts all the time.
Anyway, at least we are getting closer to tracking down your problem and you have promising short-term alternative solutions to give you control of your windows. I am wondering if a trace wasn't burnt on the FEM circuit board when the sun visor wires were cut. Do you get any power for either visor?
I think that either the vanity mirror light and window issues are directly connected, or the person who did this work was such a hack that they ruined two independent circuits.
Yes, testing on the A-pillar, my orange visor light gets 12v all the time. I tested where it enters the 10pin connector to the roof loom. No other wire on that 10 pin connector has power, so that's good. It shows there' s no unwanted connection as the bundle drops down the side of the dash towards the fuse box.
I also tested for continuity between the orange wire and the others in its bundle and didn't find any.
My new used roof loom arrived but I don't think I can use it. Although the layout is the same there's too many changes in the connections. The overhead console has 4 new wires and some pin positions swapped.
My damaged one is 2W93-14334 FEA from 10/7/03
The new one is 7W93-14334 SBA from 12/1/07
I guess there were a lot of changes between 04 and 07 models.
01-30-2022, 03:29 PM
No such luck
