Hello guys,
Well, I bought myself a used radiator fan to rebuild.
$98 used on Ebay free shipping. Look at these pictures and tell me what I'm doing wrong.

 

What exactly are you trying to rebuild? It appears to be a normal brushless motor. Generally the only thing one can "rebuild" are replacing the bearings. Over time these get water ingress and fail and/or dry up.

If left too long the motor may seize and burn out the windings or the electric speed control of the motor.

I replaced the failing bearings on my BMW X3 fan when I noticed the fan was starting to get noisy. Not much too it. Brushless motors are pretty robust mechanically, other than the bearings.

 

Hello kg74,
Thanks for the reply. You are correct! Was hoping to find a brushed motor to replace brushes.
Turns out there's nothing much i can do here.

 

Alright guys,
I managed to find a removable cover on the back side. I had to scrape off all the silicone around the casing. With the the cover removed there's a circuit board held in place with screws and 3 brackets. I managed to remove the brackets and screws to slso find out that the there are 4 prongs soldered to something below which is holding the entire circuit board from coming out.
Unfortunately my soldering iron is at my brother's garage so may have to wait until the next weekend.

Worse case i'll consider this a dissection in the name of science.

 

What the heck I decided to go brute force rather than wait on the soldering iron.
Using a screw driver I pried on the board until the soldering joints gave out.
Underneath was a bearing and a spring, nothing else.
The bearing is an SKF unit number 608-2RS1.

Now, that I have destroyed this one. I need a 2 speed radiator fan but i don't want to pay $700 for a new one.
Ideas?

Thanks!

 

You might be able to contact the manufacturer of the motor. From your (excellent I might add) photos, the brand is Gate, which is part of Johnson Electric.

https://www.johnsonelectric.com/en/p...ing-fan-motors

 

Thank for the Lead JRT-MG! I followed your link to get the part data.
Upon researching the 3 different part numbers I came a cross a Spanish Jaguar forum where the proper part number is mentioned; CFM-HB400 and is certified for 3,000 hours. Spec Sheet here: http://www.forojaguar.es/foro/download/file.php?id=3791

Upon further research, I find this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/ELECTRIC-FA...0AAOSwpCFclO2V
Look familiar?
Looking for a replacement for this one I find Dorman Part Number: 621-196 at about $260-280. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/r...6/applications

Still have to figure out if the BMW version the same as CFM-HB400, and or does it have the same CFM? Will it still communicate with the module?
Let me know your thoughts. $270 is way cheaper than $700!

 

OK gents, the BMW one is out. It is a 3 wire connection Jag is 4 wire.
Went through a bunch of fans in the Dorman catalog and Hot Dog I think we found a cross reference part; Dorman 620-164. The 03-04 Lincoln Thunderbird and the Lincoln 02-03 LS.
Priced at about $280.

What do you guys think? Let me know your thoughts before I burn more money.

 

FOUR SEASONS75072w/ Wheel



$44.79

Rockauto Jaguar XJ8

 

Thanks Wingrider, but that's the HVAC Blower Fan. I need the radiator fan. Sure wish I could get it for that price.

 

From everything I am seeing that is a brushless motor. That circuit board is how the power pulse is modulated.

Depending on what your issue is maybe you can put the two units you have together and make a complete unit.

You need to check the windings for open or short and then the bearings for failure. I would imagine you could even pull one of the bearings and swap it over if you cannot source a replacement. Usually the internal bearing is good, and the outside one fails. Of course this depends on whether the circuit board is still good - but you have not provided any details on this.

 

Thanks KG74. The bearings are easy to find with the aforementioned part numbers at about $20.
The thought has crossed my mine to rebuild my original. I would approach the teardown differently starting at the back case then pressing the spindle through lifting the magnetic shield and hat. The only concern here is that the magnetic shield is so flimsy I feel that removing it will easily make it out of round which will drag and catch on the stator. The other pain is removing the bearing on the spindle at the inside end of the hat. Which means grinding off the welded tabs and carefully prying the hat from the magnetic shield without warping anything. But if this Thunderbird / Lincoln LS unit is the same I'll gladly spend $270 and save myself the time and frustration.

Here are some final pics of the teardown.

 

Would be a good find if is!!!

Ford factory parts, are O E M after all, on so many things.

Parts already in the parts bin, for all our cars, makes sound financial sense.

 

Why are you rebuilding the fan? What is the issue?

Again here are the main motor parts: 1) Bearings; 2) Windings; and 3) Electronics.

You can check bearings easily by feel. You can check windings easily with a VOM - they are either good (6-9 Ohms), shorted or open. Electronics is another story.

The unit you destroyed appears to have bearings that show no signs of failure.

Personally, I would source a replacement unless the problem is the bearings are noisy and failing. If the fan does not turn under power and you have winding issues (difficult to fix and not worth it) move on. If the windings are good and the electronics are bad you can try some simple electrical checks or swap boards (assuming the other the board is good) otherwise you need some EE to help out.

Why did you butcher the replacement fan you purchased?

Last question are you sure your fan is actually bad and not something further upstream?

 

Thanks KG74
My fan no longer blows into high speed. Which now is affecting condenser cooling.

Yes, simple brushless design.

I didn't just want to put a used part without at least rebuilding it. These fan motors are certified by Gates / Johnson Electric for 3,000 hours. Given the age of our cars these fan motors are already up there in terms of hours. The magnetic shield is so thin and flimsy it deformed as soon as I tried to remove the shield hat. At that point I just said screw it I'll take pictures and document for science.

Good question, so I learned that this fan fan is a 4 wire design. 2 wires for power and the other 2 for the PWM signal to control speed. If the PWM signal is interrupted that fan motor should automatically default to high speed setting. Before I move on I'll unplug the signal connector and if no change it should mean that something is up with the fan motor.
Cool thing about this little fan rebuild fail journey and to those chiming in with leads is that I discovered part numbers and cross part references which lead me to get info from Spanish Jaguar forums, Lincoln LS forums, and a way cheaper part for those who may need it in the future.

Fun fact, I noticed that the replacement fan for the X350 is superseded and now uses the same fan motor as the new XF, XJ, XK models. The new fan shroud design has a different mounting for the motor.

 

Are we to understand the Lincoln LS fan will fit the 04, through 09 XJ8's?

Will come in as handy information, if they are the same.

Trying to learn about all the Ford, Lincoln, & Thunder Bird parts, that will fit our cars.

Seems i read that the fuel pump from the Crown Vic, is the same as the XJ8, non super charged.

Not sure, but would not be surprised, or upset, if it is.

 

From the sounds of it the problem is in the electronics board. You don't need to take anything else apart, at least for now, other than the board. Windings are working - bearings are fine otherwise you wouldn't even get two speeds.

Did the fan you destroyed have the same issue with just two speeds or did you never test it? If same problem the issue may not be in the fan.

I would do some digging and see if you can find some info on any fan motor brand where the problem is the same. From there you can test the suspect electronic parts and either swap them from your donor or buy new (or both).

Other option if you did not damage the donor board is to swap it over in its entirety.

Then it may make sense to use your interchange knowledge and just buy a new unit, and try the swap to close out your knowledge base and that of the forum. Leaving you with a potential second working unit.

 

Do you not trust Rockauto parts database, theirs (And many others) are incorrect! They sent me the wrong thermostat housing on my 2006 XJ8. I had to get OEM parts & at first they wanted me to PAY return shipping! (On top of rush shipping I already paid!)

Jaguar May be somewhat responsible! They changed designs on later ‘06 (H-series) XJ’s!

 

Black Cat and all contributors.
That defective unit next to my work bench that awaits tinkering just got moved up on my to-do list!
Thanks for doing and documenting the tear-down.

best regards,
Bill

 

Sorry for the delay, work has been killing me.
I did order the dorman for thunderbird. It's the exact same fan except one of the cables has a different connector. I plan on splicing in my old jaguar connector, haven't done it yet.