Way back when - like when Elvis really was still alive, I would take my cars to the local (full) service station and have my tires spin balanced with the tires still mounted on the car. With the car lifted so that the tires barely cleared the floor, the mechanic would move a machine with an electric motor in front the tires. The motor drove a roller that would cause the tires to rotate at approximately highway speed. He would use a light that looked and flashed similar to a timing light to figure out how much weight to add and where to put it. Balancing the tires on the car factored in more than just the tire and wheel because the hub and brake drum were also spinning along with the wheel and tire as opposed to computerized spin balancers at most tires stores today where the tire and wheel are removed and spun on a machine.

Until I joined this forum I had never heard the term "road force tire balancing." What exactly is that? It sounds as if it provides a better balance. Is it just another name for the spin balancers of days gone by, or is it variation of the same process? In the U.S., what type of shop or tire store would do road force balancing?

 

There are modern machines that can "road force" balance your tires. They are just about identical to a regular machine except that they have a wheel attached that looks a lot like one of the wheels on Fred Flintstones car. The Fred Flintstone wheel moves to apply pressure against the cars wheel while it is spinning. The computer then calculates the weight needed and/or if the tire needs to be turned on the wheel for the optimal balance.

I know some but not all Discount Tire stores have them. I would think you could call around to your local tire shops and just ask them if they have a road force balancer.

 

My local Discount Tire may be one that does not have that machine. They balanced them three times and said that was as close as they could get them. Every time they balanced them and re-installed the tires on the car, the out of balance spots moved around on the car. One time, I could feel it most in the steering wheel and at about 68 to 70 and in the body of the car at about 65, while the fronts were smooth at that speed. Then the next time, the combination of speed, vibration level, and location of the vibration would "move" a bit - more in the rear, less in the steering wheel, etc..

I still have a vibration in the car that feels very much like the rear tires to me. I would like to try having them balanced on a road force machine to see if that helps. If I could find someone who was extraordinarily good at balancing tires with a road force machine, I think I could at least rule out the idea of bad tires or other possible issues.

I kinda half-way think there could be an problem with one or more of my tires. When I bought the car, it came with after-market wheels that had center holes larger than the hub on the car. Therefore, even being as careful as one could, the tires would never be perfectly centered on the hub. That caused the wheel to run in what I envision as an elliptical fashion. Discount Tire ordered a set of hub rings that fit the wheels and hub on the car, but the balance issue is still there. I think it's highly probable that running the tires on wheels that weren't perfectly centered damaged them, or least caused them to be cupped or otherwise oddly worn a little bit.

 

Hi bookman,

The Hunter GSP9700 Road Force balancing machines are the ones you're looking for. They've been able to balance tires on a couple of our vehicles that other machines could not, so anymore I won't bother paying for service on any other machine.

Here's some info and a video:

Road Force Touch® GSP9700 Wheel Balancer - The World's #1 Diagnostic Wheel Balancing Machine | Hunter Engineering Company

In our area, Gateway Tire on Cool Springs Boulevard uses the 9700s, but if you call around you may find a shop in your area that has them.

Cheers,

Don

 

There is actually a locator for them:

Hunter GSP9700 Wheel vibration Control System solves wheel vibration and tire pull problems that balancers and aligners can't fix


*I'd call the shops first before blindly trusting this finder, I've found that it's not always correct - and some shops are just kind of clueless or don't seem to care. You need to find the tech/front person who knows what you want, and wants to help you.

 

I agree, rosskuhns,

I called one of the shops the Hunter locator said had a 9700, and the shop told me they did. But after I arrived at the shop, I discovered their Hunter was a lesser model without the Road Force feature.

Cheers,

Don

 

And......

Bear in mind that just because a shop has a road force balancer it doesn't mean that they use the 'road force' method of balancing on all tires, all the time.

The 9700 can be used as a conventional balancer. Many shops use the 'road force' capability only when a problem tire/problem car comes along.

If you want your tires 'road forced' you'll probably have to ask for it specifically.....but in any case, assume nothing.

Cheers
DD

 

The road force balancer is a gimmick, the amount of surface contact from the roller can't simulate the road surface, the amount of tyre in contact with the road is the size of the palm of your hand, the rotating wheel would need to be at least 1.8m in Diameter to simulate this. Also anything pushing or touching the wheel on a calibrated shaft cant be good, as all tyre fitters will tell you, on the spin you cant bang the machine or wheel as it will effect the readings.
In relation to the balancing, I will guarantee that most balancers would sort out any wheel, however the machine is only as good as the person using it and its accessories.
Hofmann have a balancer that uses lasers to check the eccentricity of the tyre (ie any bumps or distortion within the tread area) and will check the ovalness of the rim and tyre and, and tell you the best place to fit it on the car (ie match up with another matching tyre).
More info:
http://www.balansmatik.com/detay_en_...s-machine.html
Hunter have always been very good at advertising, but not so much in the science of things.

 

Hi w0z26,

So how long have you worked for Hoffman?

I can only say that from personal experience, the Hunter 9700 has been able to balance tires that other machines in town could not. I have no personal interest in Hunter, its products or the shops that use their machines. I'm just a satisfied customer.

Cheers,

Don

 

I couldn't help but notice that you made no effort to offer any evidence that the road force balancer is a gimmick. For example, you made no mention of times that you have had your tires balanced that way and came away unhappy.


I can't argue that point, no matter what machine we're talking about.

In the time since I first learned about road force balancing on this forum, I have heard a number of credible testimonies from people (both on and off of this forum) who have been very well pleased with the difference in the ride of their cars after having road force balancing done. That includes the first hand experience of a person who I am personally acquainted with and whose word I respect and accept.

Coming up on Saturday I have an appointment with a tire store where I have had good experiences in the past. I made the appointment after drilling the person on the phone about which machine they had and whether the technician was capable of putting the machine to its full use.

 

Hunter Road Force is NOT a gimmick. I had a wheel balance issue and located a tire store that did the road force and they found one rear tire was out. When they balance the tire a computer print is made and it tells the operator where the problem is and a laser will point to where a weight will be added. Also they will brake the tire down and move it for any compensation of a tire issue. Further they can tell if the tire is out of round or if the rim is out of round. This is the best system going and for $17.00 per tire.

 

Hi all,
I'm sorry if I've created a stir,if the guy doing the balancing with the right adaptors using them in the right way then you'll have no problems,

BEH2010 It is a Gimmick listen to the science I've previously mentioned to simulate the road surface the roller needs a circumference of 1.8m to create the size the of your hand, so it cant recreate the road surface.

Moving the tyre around the rim isn't going to solve an out out shape tyre all its going to do match the rim to the best spot with the tyre to use less weight (You'll still have an out of shape tyre), another example is Hunter have a facility that will use less weight, all they have done is raised the tolerance, ie ask then to balance a wheel perfectly so its 0-0 on both sides then add 10 grammes to the rim now most balancers will pick up that there is 10 g opposite, not the Hunter with the weight saving on, hence a lot of shops turn it off.

Our machines will also match the tyre and rim to the best placement on the car, as it check for tapered tyres, flat spots, oval rims and tyres, with tread depth reports with printout and will match it up with another wheels and tyres symmetrically to give the optimum performance. Lasers that show where the weight should go is a bit old now, we've had it in England now for a few years, and printouts we currently have 4 models that have that feature.

In relation to my experience, I've worked with many car manufacturers sorting out alignment issues, vibrations, abnormal wear etc. In relation to the company that I work for which its almost irrelevant really, but its the remains of Hofmann now Hofmann Megaplan, ie before Snap-on brought some patents rights, Hofmann Megaplan is now owned company by Cemb (our parent company)which is the worlds largest and respected balancing company in the world, but we use our technology mostly from Hofmann Industrial (Our sister company) they make the equipment which you'll find fits your OE tyres and rims together before they meet their car in the plants around the world.

Don't get me wrong some of the Hunter gear isn't all bad, but they really should stick to one subject that way they will properly be the best in that field.

All I'm trying to say that there is better machines around, but I suppose that's down to people own taste and what there is available in the country.

But as I said earlier and most importantly its the person / garage who will produce a good end result (using the correct cones the right way, and finger plates where applicable. Ie if the shop bothers to buy them).

 

w0z26,

Thank you for disclosing your association with Hofmann. If you had done that in your first post, and perhaps been less dismissive of your competitor, you might have been taken more seriously and encountered less push-back.

Cheers,

Don

 

And also specify or agree on the tolerance to be used.

Still like the old on car dynamic balancers better

When you got it right, it was sweet to see and feel how smooth it was.

 

Road Force balancing, if done by a person who knows how to use the equipment properly, is with-out a doubt--in my opinion--the absolute best there is on the market. Not only can it identify a problem with balance, but can identify the wheel problem if any, tell the operator if the tire needs to be rotated on the wheel, tells the operator where the balance weights need to go to balance the tire, not only in up and down weight, but also in wobble (left and right) direction. The machine has the ability to measure the wheel to insure the right size tires are on the wheel. Speaking of spinning the wheel, if during all procedures you'll notice that the wheel and tire do not spend nearly as fast as a conventional balance machine and when the "road force pressure wheel" presses against the tire, the tire spends very slowly and during the use it rotates both forward and rearward. However, just because a shop has this machine, that doesn't mean the operator knows how to properly use it. One should go to Hunters web site and watch the procedures in the videos they provide. Take notes, so as to be able to ask intelligent questions when talking to the person you are assigned to do your balancing.
One side note: On one of my cars, one of the wheels was bent, I guess from hitting a pot hole. The operator pointed this out to me and asked if I wanted him to continue with that wheel. He suggested I have the wheel repaired. I asked if there was anything he could do for me until I had the time to do this and he said, Oh, I can balance it where you would never know it, but I recommend you have the wheel repaired of get another one soon. He did and the machine did just that. I could not tell I had a bad wheel.
If your going to spend money balancing your tires, make sure you have them done right the first time with a "Road Force machine"


Chuck


05/XJ8L & 05 XK8 Vert CF

 

wOz26, if the tire is out of round per my dealer they will replace the tire. Pro rate if need be. They even told me that sometimes brand new tires come out of round and the Hunter finds that problem. The science is the Hunter Road Force works!! No Bull, No Gimmick! Sorry.

 

Chuck you have just mentioned everything my balancers do and have done for the last 6 years.

Doug your'e right it doesn't have to be used all the time.

Guys I've spent the last 25 years making a living designing making and selling these machines, I doubt you do? I'm sure you guy's love your'e Hunters, but to me they make some good stuff but also some mad stuff just like I do, and my other competitors.
I even bet most of your issues were sorted out without the Road Force Function enabled, and this is what I'm saying any machine can sort out these issues just depends on the person using it, but I have a diagnostic balancing that's more advance than the Hunters and is used by Manufacturers.

I am here to help with your'e issues, giving you my spare time and years of knowledge to help and advise you guys. Don't think of me as the bad guy just because I don't like 1 balancer.

Beh2010, new tyres are out of shape, rotating a tyre will only move the problem unless you want to use less weight.

 

Years ago a tyre fitter diagnosed an out-of-round tyre I had by very gently holding a piece of chalk against the tread of the tyre while it was spinning on the machine; it kept marking one particular patch of the tread.

Same principle holds for a bent wheel or distorted sidewall.

 

Road force is not bs! And we use a hunter 9700. No we only road force if paid for as it would include breaking down tire and rotating the high tire spot to the measured low rim spot for a "truer" roundness reading. I do this on my own and thousands of tires and wheels a year as jaguar owners seem to have calibrated butts. Fixed many of vibrations issues because of this. Hard to argue with real world day to day experience. You can drill a hole in a brick, spin it, balance it, and then how would than ride on the car? Not well, but it is "balanced" just not round. An over exageration for sure, but it does give a perfect mental image.

 

"BEH2010 It is a Gimmick listen to the science I've previously mentioned to simulate the road surface the roller needs a circumference of 1.8m to create the size the of your hand, so it cant recreate the road surface."

Well, there's science and then there's Science!

It seems that you are referring to the machine's inability to create a contact patch equivalent in size to what would occur on the road. Though that may be correct, and all the math is perfect, that doesn't mean science says it's a gimmick.

Is the exact size of the contact patch more important than putting the equivalent force of the cars weight and gravity onto the tire while it is being measured? I would think not.

I know absolutely nothing about these machines and almost nothing about tire balancing, but I do know how science or statistics can be used or misused in marketing. Just food for thought.