Stymied by shimmy.
#1
Stymied by shimmy.
My 2006 VDP with only 35K miles has a steering wheel shimmy that no one can seem to figure out. I've had it to three different shops, some of them more than once, but none can figure out the problem.
It is very noticeable between 50 and 60 miles an hour. It's not severe, but it is noticeable. Curiously, it is worse when the car is cold than after it has been driven 15-20 miles.
In the course of trying to solve other problems, the outer tie rod ends have been replaced. All of the shops say the inner ends are fine (they ought to be with only 35K miles).
Several thousand miles ago I got a new set of Continental Xtreme Contact tires from Discount Tire. My recollection is I didn't notice the shimmy until I got the tires. But DT pulled me out in the shop and showed me they are well within specs on a road force balance, and have virtually no movement to them. Rotating the tires front to rear didn't change things. Even so, when the various repair shops couldn't find the cause of the shimmy, and said it could be a bad batch of tires, I paid to have two new ones put on the front. That didn't solve anything.
Also during this time I have had a new set of Arnott springs on the front. I ultimately decided I did not like those so I had the original springs rebuilt by Rebuild Master Tech. So I've had different springs on the front, but that hasn't stopped the shimmy.
The brake rotors are not out of round.
Any ideas? I can't imagine why the steering rack would cause this. But who knows?
-Jim
It is very noticeable between 50 and 60 miles an hour. It's not severe, but it is noticeable. Curiously, it is worse when the car is cold than after it has been driven 15-20 miles.
In the course of trying to solve other problems, the outer tie rod ends have been replaced. All of the shops say the inner ends are fine (they ought to be with only 35K miles).
Several thousand miles ago I got a new set of Continental Xtreme Contact tires from Discount Tire. My recollection is I didn't notice the shimmy until I got the tires. But DT pulled me out in the shop and showed me they are well within specs on a road force balance, and have virtually no movement to them. Rotating the tires front to rear didn't change things. Even so, when the various repair shops couldn't find the cause of the shimmy, and said it could be a bad batch of tires, I paid to have two new ones put on the front. That didn't solve anything.
Also during this time I have had a new set of Arnott springs on the front. I ultimately decided I did not like those so I had the original springs rebuilt by Rebuild Master Tech. So I've had different springs on the front, but that hasn't stopped the shimmy.
The brake rotors are not out of round.
Any ideas? I can't imagine why the steering rack would cause this. But who knows?
-Jim
#2
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Beautiful Pilot Mountain NC
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Jim,
As you may know, the suspension bushings in these cars age out, So, regardless of low miles, particularly your front thrust bushings are (very probably) shot. And, I'll bet you're front upper ball joints are ditto, as the boots have perished by now. Ditto your rear A frame bushings. The upshot is what you're feeling at the helm...
My XJR was 9 yrs old when I got it, and all the suspension bushings had gone to mush. All of them. Couldn't believe it. Had to replace everything, But, its worth it...
Plenty of info in this forum on rebuilding/replacing X350 front and rear suspension bits. Or, any competent Jag shop can do it. Use OEM parts (some Ford parts will substitute. Lemforder makes most of the individual bushings). Rebuilding the suspension is not cheap, but - as you know - part of the cost of owning one of these lovely old Jags
(PS: My experience with "rebuilt" air struts is not good. X350 struts age out, just like the suspension bushings. "Rebuilt" struts have a replacement air bladder installed on a typically worn out core damper. New Bilstein struts are available at a sort of reasonable price, if you want to retain the air suspension)
As you may know, the suspension bushings in these cars age out, So, regardless of low miles, particularly your front thrust bushings are (very probably) shot. And, I'll bet you're front upper ball joints are ditto, as the boots have perished by now. Ditto your rear A frame bushings. The upshot is what you're feeling at the helm...
My XJR was 9 yrs old when I got it, and all the suspension bushings had gone to mush. All of them. Couldn't believe it. Had to replace everything, But, its worth it...
Plenty of info in this forum on rebuilding/replacing X350 front and rear suspension bits. Or, any competent Jag shop can do it. Use OEM parts (some Ford parts will substitute. Lemforder makes most of the individual bushings). Rebuilding the suspension is not cheap, but - as you know - part of the cost of owning one of these lovely old Jags
(PS: My experience with "rebuilt" air struts is not good. X350 struts age out, just like the suspension bushings. "Rebuilt" struts have a replacement air bladder installed on a typically worn out core damper. New Bilstein struts are available at a sort of reasonable price, if you want to retain the air suspension)
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Don B (09-11-2020)
#3
Jim,
As you may know, the suspension bushings in these cars age out, So, regardless of low miles, particularly your front thrust bushings are (very probably) shot. And, I'll bet you're front upper ball joints are ditto, as the boots have perished by now. Ditto your rear A frame bushings. The upshot is what you're feeling at the helm...
As you may know, the suspension bushings in these cars age out, So, regardless of low miles, particularly your front thrust bushings are (very probably) shot. And, I'll bet you're front upper ball joints are ditto, as the boots have perished by now. Ditto your rear A frame bushings. The upshot is what you're feeling at the helm...
#4
The rear lower wishbone is what I could be called an A frame even though its actually an aluminium casting,. The ball-type bushes on this are notorious for a short life. Funnily enough, the Silentbloc bus, (the third bush), lasts much longer. Other thing to consider is the wheels themselves; are they damaged at all, or out-of-round, rears included ?
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Don B (09-13-2020)
#5
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Beautiful Pilot Mountain NC
Posts: 656
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MH - as Fraser explained, the rear suspension needs attention as well due to perished/soft bushings. And, you'll probably find the rubber bits on the sway bar links are also bad. Regarding rear subframe rubber mounts, my were fine; I bet yours are too. I did replace front and rear sway bar bushes also, just to tighten things up
To GUJ (original poster): My car felt sloppy when I first got it, and had a persistent front brake judder, particularly under high speed light braking. This was really evident when using adaptive cruise control (which applies brakes gently if somebody cuts in front of you on the highway). I had the new front rotors remachined to no avail. Then, remembering similar issues with BMW's, I removed the front LCA's and found the bushes were mush. Kept going until pretty much everything was renewed. I sent all four air struts off to be "rebuilt", which kicked off a spate of strut failures, bad dampers, etc etc (10 "rebuilt" struts in all) until I got fed up and installed Arnott spring struts. These are fine, but in hindsight, I should have gone with new Bilsteins in the first place.
My XJR handles and drives very well now - the new bushes, etc are the key. It is a little stiff legged due to steel springs, but OK
Hope this helps!
To GUJ (original poster): My car felt sloppy when I first got it, and had a persistent front brake judder, particularly under high speed light braking. This was really evident when using adaptive cruise control (which applies brakes gently if somebody cuts in front of you on the highway). I had the new front rotors remachined to no avail. Then, remembering similar issues with BMW's, I removed the front LCA's and found the bushes were mush. Kept going until pretty much everything was renewed. I sent all four air struts off to be "rebuilt", which kicked off a spate of strut failures, bad dampers, etc etc (10 "rebuilt" struts in all) until I got fed up and installed Arnott spring struts. These are fine, but in hindsight, I should have gone with new Bilsteins in the first place.
My XJR handles and drives very well now - the new bushes, etc are the key. It is a little stiff legged due to steel springs, but OK
Hope this helps!
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Don B (09-13-2020)
#6
MH - as Fraser explained, the rear suspension needs attention as well due to perished/soft bushings. And, you'll probably find the rubber bits on the sway bar links are also bad. Regarding rear subframe rubber mounts, my were fine; I bet yours are too. I did replace front and rear sway bar bushes also, just to tighten things up
Hope this helps!
Hope this helps!
Sorry did not mean to derail the OP's thread.
#7
Thanks so far to everyone who has posted...good information and glad to know other people understand what I am going through.
In 2011 I got a 2004 VDP with 66K miles to wear out instead of the 2004 I had which my father bought new., My father's car still has only 38K miles. To my great surprise, I discovered this other 2004 had worn out suspension busings just about everywhere. So I have been through this routine before.
With my current car, a 2006 VDP with 35K miles, I have also been fighting a noticeable clunking in the front end. No one could figure out what was causing it so there began the process of "Let's just start replacing parts until it stops clunking". This involved replacing the front sway bar links, the upper control arms (to replace the ball joints, which did appear worn), and then the lower ball joints (which can be done by themselves). None of that cured the clunking. Finally the sway bar bushings were replaced. They looked perfectly fine, absolutely no cracks and the bar sat right in the center of the bushing like it should (rather than being off-center). But they were rock hard. I suspect they also may have shrank a bit in size, creating a small space between the bushing and the bracket going over the top of the bushing giving rise to the "clunk". I would never in my life have thought sway bar bushings would become hard and cause a clunk.
My point in detailing all this is that the front end has been thoroughly checked out in pursuit of the clunking. If one or more of the control arm bushings were bad they would have found that. As it were, one of those now likely has gone bad.
A couple weeks after having the sway bar bushings replaced there developed in the front end a very bad creaking noise--just like a control arm bushing going bad. I suspect that is the case, but wonder why no one found it before. In the next week the car is going to a very competent fellow (who suggested the say bar bushings to cure the clunk). He and I are going to put it up on a lift and inspect every possible thing and even think outside the box to determine the shimmy. This car has such potential, if only it could be made right.
As to the short life for bushings and ball joints, no one has mentioned, so I assume not all know, these are packed with grease from the factory. There are no grease fittings. The joint or bushing has a boot around it that is supposed to keep the grease in. The boot is made of rubber but it might as well be made of paper because it dries out and cracks in just several years. The grease leaks out and there is no way to replace it so the bushings or joint has a very short life. I have seen 7-year old X350s with 40K miles and the bushings are shot because the grease has leaked out.
Do any of you have good source for bushings for those that can be replaced without having to replace the whole control arm?
In 2011 I got a 2004 VDP with 66K miles to wear out instead of the 2004 I had which my father bought new., My father's car still has only 38K miles. To my great surprise, I discovered this other 2004 had worn out suspension busings just about everywhere. So I have been through this routine before.
With my current car, a 2006 VDP with 35K miles, I have also been fighting a noticeable clunking in the front end. No one could figure out what was causing it so there began the process of "Let's just start replacing parts until it stops clunking". This involved replacing the front sway bar links, the upper control arms (to replace the ball joints, which did appear worn), and then the lower ball joints (which can be done by themselves). None of that cured the clunking. Finally the sway bar bushings were replaced. They looked perfectly fine, absolutely no cracks and the bar sat right in the center of the bushing like it should (rather than being off-center). But they were rock hard. I suspect they also may have shrank a bit in size, creating a small space between the bushing and the bracket going over the top of the bushing giving rise to the "clunk". I would never in my life have thought sway bar bushings would become hard and cause a clunk.
My point in detailing all this is that the front end has been thoroughly checked out in pursuit of the clunking. If one or more of the control arm bushings were bad they would have found that. As it were, one of those now likely has gone bad.
A couple weeks after having the sway bar bushings replaced there developed in the front end a very bad creaking noise--just like a control arm bushing going bad. I suspect that is the case, but wonder why no one found it before. In the next week the car is going to a very competent fellow (who suggested the say bar bushings to cure the clunk). He and I are going to put it up on a lift and inspect every possible thing and even think outside the box to determine the shimmy. This car has such potential, if only it could be made right.
As to the short life for bushings and ball joints, no one has mentioned, so I assume not all know, these are packed with grease from the factory. There are no grease fittings. The joint or bushing has a boot around it that is supposed to keep the grease in. The boot is made of rubber but it might as well be made of paper because it dries out and cracks in just several years. The grease leaks out and there is no way to replace it so the bushings or joint has a very short life. I have seen 7-year old X350s with 40K miles and the bushings are shot because the grease has leaked out.
Do any of you have good source for bushings for those that can be replaced without having to replace the whole control arm?
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