XJ XJ6 / XJ8 / XJR ( X350 & X358 ) 2003 - 2009

Tyre wear

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Old 12-30-2013, 06:14 PM
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Default Tyre wear

Or for our American friends, tire wear!
Right I have noticed the inside edge of both of my front tyres are wearing prematurely. So the first thing I did was to get under there and check all suspension components/bushes for wear and or play. Everything checked out okay and I replaced both front wheel bearings less than ten thousand miles ago, so I know they're good. The old ones actually had no play, but were bone dry?
Anyway the next thing I looked for was adjustment and I can't see any except for tracking, am I missing something or is that the only front end geometry adjustment I have?
So given that I can find nothing else in the way of adjustment, I have a vague suspicion that maybe the previous owner had the tracking adjusted without the car running. Meaning the suspension would be at its lowest and the adjustments not accurate for running conditions.
So any pointers or advice here would be greatly received..
 
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Old 12-30-2013, 06:45 PM
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My best advice is to the alignment yourself
Its really easy once you have done it a few times

I used to use the "String method" but have since purchased a laser alignment unit
It cheep and easy to use and I can do the front and rear toe measurement in a few minutes

Check here for the unit i have
Trackace DIY laser wheel alignment tracking gauge. Poor wheel alignment wastes fuel, damages tyres & increases your CO2 emissions carbon emissions.

For Caster and Camber you just need a magnetic unit to fit on the wheels
I just made a simple cap to replace the plastic wheel wheel center cap from steel

IE remove the plastic cap and fit the steel one then mount the level gauge

I got both from deamon tweeks in the uk some time ago but here are the links

Trackace Laser Wheel Alignment Gauge - Demon Tweeks

Longacre Castor Camber Gauge - Demon Tweeks

I wont go into how to make the adjustments as all is covered in the manuals but it may be worth discussing in another thread but to get you started take a look here
Wheel Alignment HowTo - 1954 Pontiac - Do It Yourself Hot Rod Kustom Website

Another really good tools to buy is a temp probe and a pressure gauge
Always use the same pressure gauge so you know you tires are inflated the same. Ie different gauges different readings
Measuring the tyre temps will tell you alignment issues

There is loads of info on this if you google it, but if you start with the OEM settings with a temp gauge and the above tools you can tweak the rates of wear and handling

IE I run slightly different rear tow settings from OEM.
(0.75 as opposed to the OEM 0.5)
This has a big effect on the turn in rates but does have the effect of slightly higher rear tire wear rates. This is not an issues are the rear wear is far lower then the front

PS
Don’t be tempted to purchase expensive turntables either you can make them at home for a few bucks all you need is a router, some MDF or or cutting boards and some nylon/steel ball bearings

Just cut circle in the boards with the router. The cut is made with the router and is slightly less depth than the ball bearing diameter
Once you cut the circle (and you can have more than one for load) fill the circle with bearings on one plate. Plase the second over the top and bolt together. Instant turn table. All you need now is to make 1 more (or 3 for 4 wheels alignments)

I'm also going to replace/upgrade my caster camber guage soon as I also need to measure KPI for another project im going to start mid year
Haven’t decided on the one to purchase yet as im looking at a bunch on new tools for both this project and to use with the XJR. Top of the list is a scissor lift that I can uses for both cars, and alignments. The problem being is it needs to fit the new project car as well as the XJR and be portable.

Cheers
34by151
 

Last edited by 34by151; 12-30-2013 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 12-31-2013, 04:33 AM
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Yeah looked at the trackace and it seems like a respectable piece of kit, the thing is I can count on less than one hand the number of times I've needed to track a car, so would it be another piece of kit that ended up gathering dust in my workshop?
Now I have actually tracked a couple of cars myself, using datum points and highly accurate measuring equipment, so I know what I'm trying to achieve, although age and the will to actually do the job, mean I fancy the idea of someone else getting down and dirty!
Tyre pressure gauges........I suppose a history of competitive motorcycle racing and working as an engineer for numerous car manufacturers, has taught me that although accuracy is important, consistency is of equal importance. So that one's covered.
I'm guessing as a result of your advice and other members lack of participation, that getting the old girl tracked is the way forward? I'm also assuming that it needs to be at ride height when it is done too?
 
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:31 AM
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Toe, caster and camber all change with ride height so its important to have correct if not contestant tyre pressures and in the case of our cars the engine running to ensure the correct ride height

Toe is the last thing you worry about but does have a big bearing on tyre wear
You often hear things like if the tyres are wearing this way or that change the tow this way or the other.
That's all well and good if the camber is actually correct

Look at it this way.
The OEM settings are a guide to make the car handle without being dangerous

This is you starting point

The next step is to adjust to tweak the handling. How you do this depends on your goals Ie performance vs Tyre life although the two are not exclusive

If you monitor the Tyre temps after a good run. Measure the 2 outside and center temps. Now tweak the camber till you get even temps. Each time you tweak the camber (both sides the same) readjust the toe and caster.
This will optimize the turn in rates (in general terms)

Once you get the the camber right (and this will not be the OEM setting) start reducing the caster while keeping the toe and camber the same.
This will effect the the self center and the exit rates (in general terms)

Finally optimize the toe

Now you can repeat for the rear and you may wish to revisit the fount
Once you are done you will have settings based upon your use and style but also a vastly better handling car

Ive simplified a bit but you get the general idea

Also remember changing wheels or Tyre widths changes everything again so I come back to you will use the toe gauge and will appreciate one that can be done in a few minutes

PS dont forget you need to 4 wheel align. so rear tracking is very important. Thats why my rear camber and toe is not the OEM settings. This is used to vastly speed up the turn in rate. This is why I said the OEM settings are a starting point! My setting is far to to twitchy for the misses for example but is close to race handling and perfect for me. OEM settings are a guide and compromise

Cheers
34by151
 

Last edited by 34by151; 12-31-2013 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 12-31-2013, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by GMad
Or for our American friends, tire wear!
Right I have noticed the inside edge of both of my front tyres are wearing prematurely. So the first thing I did was to get under there and check all suspension components/bushes for wear and or play. Everything checked out okay and I replaced both front wheel bearings less than ten thousand miles ago, so I know they're good. The old ones actually had no play, but were bone dry?
Anyway the next thing I looked for was adjustment and I can't see any except for tracking, am I missing something or is that the only front end geometry adjustment I have?
So given that I can find nothing else in the way of adjustment, I have a vague suspicion that maybe the previous owner had the tracking adjusted without the car running. Meaning the suspension would be at its lowest and the adjustments not accurate for running conditions.
So any pointers or advice here would be greatly received..
XJK Jaguar of Newcastle-under-Lyme have got a new and very sophisticated wheel alignment checking installation that checks everything you can think of. They did an alignment on mine in 2012 and my tyres are lasting very, well, Fronts replaced in 2011 all OK and have done 25k miles, and on about 4 mm. Clearly will need replacing at some point, but there is no uneven wear at all. Previous check was at Royles the main agent in Wilmslow, in 2011, when the front Pirellis were put on, who have good equipment too. Tyre wear like you describe is very unusual for the X350 cars.
 
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Old 12-31-2013, 09:37 PM
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Sounds like a incorrect wheel alignment

When I had my first Jag in 2000 a 93 XJ40 I put new wheels and tyres on it to get rid of the metric tyres within 3,000k,s the front insides where nearly worn out brand new Yokohama C drives

I took it to my mate in Brisbane a 90k drive he had been to the SEMA show in the states a couple months earlier and bought the state of the art wheel aligning machine for his tyre shop

He said I really needed two new front tyres

I said just put them on the back got him to do an alignment he said we might have to pull the front tyres of the rims and turn them around if they feather on the outer edge they never did ended up getting 40,000 out of them without a rotation

I did get the alignments checked every 10,000 k,s couldn't rotate the tyres because of the premature wear on the inside of the back tyres

When I bought my current XJ8 X350 6 months ago the tyres where stuffed even though the seller told me he had just had an alignment

I went to the service station to check the tyre pressure as it was a 3,000 k trip home they where basically bald

I thought I'll wait till I get home and get a set then on the way to Melbourne

I saw rain clouds thought bugger this going to get a set in Melbourne which I did

I then drove it back to Queensland got my guy in Brisbane to do an alignment the day after getting back he did front and rear said they where out a bit only time will tell
 
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Old 01-01-2014, 05:42 AM
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Right thank you for all of the advice people, all of which happily I am already very well aware of!
Now I can see that there is facility to adjust the toe in/out, but is that it? I am not seeing any means of castor adjustment?
Now a good friend of mine owns a garage and has wheel alignment equipment so I'm going to pop down there and check it myself, with the car running, so that it's at it's normal running height.
All of which is annoying because I spend my professional working life in various car factories!
 
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:25 AM
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Caster and camber are set using the cam type nuts
Camber is the set near the tie rod boot

Do the Caster First then camber followed by toe then repeat to check all the settings
Make sure you run the engine for 5 mins to allow the system to fully adjust
Bounce the suspension before and after any adjustment.

Before you start making changes confirm the ride heights are correct especially side to side. If you have SDD fix the heights as needed

When adjusting Toe make sure you have the wheel centered and check your arms are equal length

Rear toe is the same as doing the front

See Section 24-000 in JTIS under general procedures

Cheers
34by151
 
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Old 01-02-2014, 07:05 AM
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HOW TO READ TIRE WEAR

The way your tires wear is a good indicator of other parts of your car. Abnormal wear patterns are often caused by the need for simple tire maintenance, or for front end alignment. Tires should be inspected at every opportunity; once a week isn't too often. Learning to read the early warning signs of trouble can prevent wear that shortens tire life or indicates the need for having other parts of the car serviced. Tires should be inspected 3 ways. First, visually examine all 4 tires; second, feel the tread by hand to detect wear such as feathering and third, check all 4 tires with a pocket type pressure gauge. Over Inflation
Excessive wear at the center of the tread indicates that the air pressure in the tire is consistently too high. The tire is riding on the center of the tread and wearing it prematurely. Many times, the "eyeball" method of inflation (pumping the tires up until there is no bulge at the bottom) is at fault; tire inflation pressure should always be checked with a reliable tire gauge. Occasionally, this wear pattern can result from outrageously wide tires on narrow rims. The cure for this is to replace either the tires or the wheels. Under Inflation
This type of wear usually results from consistent under inflation. When a tire is under inflated, there is too much contact with the road by the outer treads, which wear prematurely. Tire pressure should be checked with a reliable pressure gauge. When this type of wear occurs, and the tire pressure is known to be consistently correct, a bent or worn steering component or the need for wheel alignment could be indicated. Bent steering or idler arms cause incorrect toe-in and abnormal handling characteristics on turns. Feathering
Feathering is a condition when the edge of each tread rib develops a slightly rounded edge on one side and a sharp edge on the other. By running your hand over the tire, you can usually feel the sharper edges before you'll be able to see them. The most common cause of feathering is incorrect toe-in setting, which can be cured by having It set correctly. Occasionally toe-in will be set correctly and this wear pattern still occurs. This is usually due to deteriorated bushings in the front suspension, causing the wheel alignment to shift as the car moves down the road. One Side Wear
When an inner or outer rib wears faster than than the rest of the tire, the need for wheel alignment is indicated. There is excessive camber in the front suspension, causing the wheel to lean too much to the inside or outside and putting too much load on one side of the tire. The car may simply need the wheels aligned, but misalignment could be due to sagging springs, worn ball joints, or worn control arm bushings. Because load has a great affect on alignment, be sure the car is loaded the way it's normally driven when you have the wheels aligned; this is particularly important with independent rear suspension cars. Cupping
Cups or scalloped dips appearing around the edge of the tread on one side or the other, almost always indicate worn (sometimes bent) suspension parts. Adjustment of wheel alignment alone will seldom cure the problem. Any worn component that connects the wheel to the car (ball joint, wheel bearing, shock absorber, springs, bushings, etc.) can cause this condition. Worn components should be replaced with new ones. The worn tire should be balanced and possibly moved to a different location on the car. Occasionally, wheels that are out of balance will wear like this, but wheel imbalance usually shows up as bald spots between the outside edges and center of the tread. Second-rib Wear
Second-rib wear is normally found only in radial tires, and appears where the steel belts end in relation to the tread. Normally, it can be kept to a minimum by paying careful attention to tire pressure and frequently rotating the tires. Some car and tire manufacturers consider a slight amount of wear at the second rib of a radial tire normal, but that excessive amounts of wear indicate that the tires are too wide for the wheels. Be careful when having oversize tires installed on narrow wheels.
HOW TO READ TIRE WEAR
 
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  #10  
Old 01-03-2014, 05:02 AM
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All of this assumes the camber and toe is setup correctly and the bushings are in good condition

What this is doing is tuning the tyres to the suspension settings
First you need to make sure these settings are correct then tune the tyres

Cheers
34by151
 
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Old 01-04-2014, 04:56 AM
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Right thank you for all of the advice!
In the end I did this properly after talking to the chaps who work with geometry at work (I'm a freelance engineer in the automotive industry). Now I'm not currently working in the Jaguar factory, but the principles of wheel alignment are similar on most, if not all cars.
The first thing I did was to check every component that attaches the wheels to the car. Upper arms, lower arms, track rod ends, bushes etc. All was well, so the next job was to fit and balance four new tyres, this way I was sure the tyres were not out of true as indeed neither were the wheels.
Then it came down to checking the geometry, which was almost bang on! One of the rears was toeing in slightly too much and the opposite front was also doing the same!
This was causing the car to crab slightly and because the fronts move (steer), it was causing wear.
Anyway the car now feels very light and nimble and given that I did all of the work myself, I know that it now runs in a straight line. Plus of course I now have four shiny new tyres..
 
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