i'm going to replace the upper control arms on my 07 xjr, the rubber boots are deteriorated. which brand should i go with? would moog be ok or should i get lemforder?

thanks for any help

 

NOT.. a Jaguar comparison, but "velly intelesting":

https://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/threa...forder.217201/

What with Federal-Mogul owning Moog and Moog making parts for TRW branding... and TRW parts for "that other marque" of vehicles allegedly being Lemförder with the logo ground off?

Who really knows what is "manufactured" vs simply bought-in and branded on the packaging?

Not a high-volume part, aftermarket, as many cars go to their graves without ever having them replaced, so I'm not sure the relatively small Jaguar aftermarket is even large enough that more than one maker actually exists?

Not to forget, that "nowadays" JLR/Tata's largest market by volume is..... China... and they have a local factory there, equal shares with a Chinese partner:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chery_...inland%20China.

So a Chinese maker may exist?

Then again, Tata also ... made an ATTEMPT..... to build the CHEAPEST car .... in the entire world.

It did not go well. Ah.. guess it "went" OK for it's tiny motor, but bits falling off, catching fire and such? Made it hard to sell at any price:

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/t...pest-car-dead/

I suspect I'll rebuild my originals when the time comes?

If nowt else, my widow will know whom to blame for a failure.

 

Having replaced suspension parts of two XJ8's, my experience is...

1. If your upper control arms boots are splitting and cracking (you'd think the country that developed modern rubber technology could do better, hah!), you need to check rear sway bar and upper-lower rear as well. It seems more a time/age-related failure point then environmental. The boots fail way before the mechanical actual ball joint. My guess is not enough plasticizer in compound or lousy U-V/ozone resistance. In any case, forgive me digressing, just consider it's highly probable that lower ball joint front, rear sway bar links, and rear control arm boots are not far behind the upper front failure point.

2. I had great luck with MOOG, well packaged and fabricated, I used calipers to compare critical dimensions to OEM (I assume Lemforder) and they were on the money. The AC Delco and Delphi were NOT.

3. Where something is fabricated is not as critical as How. If the quality control is there, you can tell.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...trol+arm,10401

 

My rear track rods went bad MANY YEARS before the front showed any deterioration anywhere atall. Different maker of the elastomer boot?

Fabbed new boots meself out of self-vulcanizing 'lectrican's tape that lasted several years, given the joints were still tight.

Eventually had to cut them out with an oscillating saw to put the new Moogs in. Kinda 'overkill' to use a Herman Grade A surface plate as part of presetting length to match the old ones 'til I could get a round tuit as to alignment... but it was what I had..

What concerns me about the light-alloy arms and uprights is the quality of the casting itself, not just the dimensions.

Those goods do not fail gracefully, and visibly / obviously as steel stampings or weldments do, nor survive bending as steel forgings can do. Catastrophic failure, rather.

That said? At about $100 US a set of two vs over $300 *each* for the OEM ones?
It wouldn't be TOO expensive to buy a pair of the El Cheapo's annnd ..... DIY test them to destruction.

If good, a second set bought will still total to a major savings. If not.. potential 'inconvenience' AKA "di-assed-her" avoided.

As happens, I can rebuild mine. 70+ years a "tool-*****" has its upsides. Space in which to *live* suffers, though. One more machine-tool and I shall be sleeping in a pup tent.

 

My upper control arm boots have been cracked for more than 4 years. Pretty much ALL of the rear boots are also perished. I use a syringe to pack them with grease every 6 months and try to avoid rain and all the joints have remained in perfect working order -- quiet and tight. I'm not planning to replace any of them until the joint loosens. Even the NYS inspection guy commented that as long as the joint is tight, cracked boots are no reason for replacement and are adequate to pass inspection.

Good Luck
Jeff

 

VA inspector passed my DIY enclosure, but would not pass a split boot spotted at another time.

Mind, I had used the same guy for 25+ years until he retired, his replacement, same shop, since, the total around 35 years and counting. Both are sticklers for the rules, plus great as to the extra scrutiny "might want to keep an eye on..." or "next time you are going to need to....".

Helpful guidance - not adversarial hassle - is why I keep going to the same folk.

 

On a side note, as others mentioned, the boots fail way before the mechanical bits. There are several threads in the XJ/350 section on getting the boots themselves and doing a DIY replacement of the boot only, the one that comes to mind is...
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...r-boot-265138/

 

Hi 07xjr,

As you know, Lemförder is the Original Equipment Manufacturer. Their replacement parts are usually the best available, though often at a premium price. I try to use them whenever available.

Other control arm brands I have used with success include Meyle, TRW, Febi Bilstein, Moog, and Mevotech.

I have had mixed results from ÜRO Parts and Eurospares brands, and am suspicious of the quality of rubber used.

My opinion is that the upper control arms are under-engineered, so regardless of which brand you install, they are unlikely to last more than several years.

Cheers,

Don

 

Not only the upper control arms. Whole dam' system is too lightly implemented for a fast vehicle, full seats+ luggage over average roads, the Americas, Europe, Chyna, NZ, or Oz.

Solution is to drive it like JM Fangio, skillfully avoiding impact with even a solitary dried racoon turd, let-alone a serious pothole, and NOT like Fon Portago or TG Nuvolari .... who could "use up" a fine motorcar in a single race ... to win it.

No Fear. Jaguar can respond to that sort of finesse. Depends on it, even. 105K miles, so far, all I do is clean & lube them (Wurth's 'hinge lube') and inspect for damage.

A HMMV it was never. Nor the Rover, but at least it's better with the bad roads.

 

thank you for the replies everyone. i decided to order the moog control arms and see if i can get some of those replacement boots for the oe arms and save them as a backup in case the moogs don't work out. i'll post pictures of the new vs oe control arms to compare them when i tackle the job.

thanks again

 

Just for the Halibut, and only if they look 'different', see if you can get an accurate WEIGHT for each of them to compare.

Much as I'd want to X-ray them, it would be cheaper to just buy the OEM's at worst-case full-ticket pricing than to pay a local lab.

Alloy 8620 guy. Never did much trust "shiney wood" (Aluminium) for hard work, but DO love it for low/no corrosion coachwork.

 

just electrical tape them and squeeze some caliper grease in there. i don't even bother to unbolt them to put a replacement boot on....i can count on 2 fingers how many times i've seen those upper ball joints actually go bad

 

The ball joints don't seem to fail as early as the rubber control arm bushings, but the bushings do fail, which is the primary reason to replace the upper control arms.

 

It would certainly be less work than replacing only the bushings - given risk of damage or distortion to the fragile 'loominum.

That said, for those in the game, it wouldn't be hard to replicate in steel - or even Titanium. That there isn't already any obvious entrant in the market purveying such goods indicates the OEM part isn't all THAT bad, as-had.

Then again, nobody takes a 'modern' Jaguar to the track to race. They take a Jaguar to a track to WATCH the race.
"In elegant grace, comfort, and style"... of course.

 

Did you cross check parts for Ford Thunderbird and Lincoln LS? It has been a number of years since I did mine, but I recall buying some of the parts for said cars, from a Ford Dealer in MI online, and the parts were stamped Jaguar and Ford. May be a different part, but I did the entire suspension, and only one item could not be matched this way.

 

This CAN work. But Ford changes models more often than JLR, so is not assured of being in dealer stocks.

Not on thread, but the nearby "cartridge" front spindles, bearings, rotation reluctor are/were also used on more than just Ford's luxury line. Detroit Axle has always had those for me at decent prices.

 

Hi arodlx,

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Cheers,

Don

 

Surely we have done. In "gruesome detail", even.

"ZF Lemfoerder", or "Lemforder". (the OEM, in any case).

AKA:

Zahnradfabrik Friedrichshafen Private Aktiengesellschaft's Lemförder Metallwaren AG,

Currently ZF Lemförder GmbH

Out of Baden-Württemberg, DE... and into more countres than just a few, since ZF was founded 1915 by Ferdinand, Graf von Zeppelin, and remains over 90% controlled by the town of Friedrichshafen.

Go figure there was more money - and far the broader global coverage - for Zeppelin "ohne gaz" than was ever to be had from building flammable airships?

As with gunfights, going for second-best is .......risky?

Read it and beep.
Better yet, flash your headlamps.

As with "youth", Jaguars are "wasted on the young", so some among us have gone hard of hearing.

 

When I purchased my 2006 XJR in 2015 I almost cried after getting it up. Every rubber boot on it was falling apart. Some had fallen off and there was no rubber left. Replaced every bushing, boot, arm, rod on it. Think 5K, just parts.
Here I am nine years later and most are cracked and split. So Ford/Jaguar/Lemforder did not fix these issues. My 2005 A8 has original Lemforder parts and almost all are fine. Wife had a 2007 335. And the Lemforder suspension boots looked great when we sold a few years back. The Jaguar parts are crap.
I think Moog and others are better, rubbers that last 10 years is not rocket science.
Ford used to stock the TB and LS parts. Purchased all uppers, rear lowers, links, tie rods, sway bar bushings and links from Ford or Jaguar.
Wished I had purchased the cheapest crap on market. It most likely would still look new.

 

Could be the "environment?"

2005 XJ8-L, 105 K miles. It is now 2024.

Grease condoms on the rear track rods had perished. Tie rod ends at front are hinting they plan to do. Right front Bilstein top suffered premature evacuation. Left mate to is looking as ugly as the day the hogs ate my little brother, but no bubbles yet. Being replaced, regardless (Suncore, no ECATS. BFD).

So far, other suspension bits are still OK. CARFAX doesn't show prior replacement, either, but I have had it nine years already from ?? 83K miles? ....meself, so....