Dealership acknowledges oil on the plug(s) but says cylinder 8 passed a compression and leakdown test.

They are still searching for answers. It only smokes when under load or when first starting ... any way to narrow it down from those details?

 

Moot. Try this...

"I appreciate you keeping me informed of your findings to date, and what little I know about engines makes this sound like a problem that is out of the ordinary. As we both have seen, the clouds of smoke being emitted from this car are out of the ordinary as well. I'll await your confirmation as to what is causing this problem, and your recommendation for correcting it".

That's their job.

 

JTO, you're also a word wizard.

Phillip, I would very much like to hear how this plays out.

 

Thank you, Jack. I thought it was non-confrontational, and appealed to their professional expertise.

Expecting a Jaguar Dealership service department to evaluate second hand guesswork from an unedited meesage board will only succeed in insulting their intelligence. And it certainly won't get the car repaired.

 

jeez, you can have a good leakage test and compression test, but still have bad oil control on valve guides, or oil rings leading to high oil consumption. It doesnt matter, the oil consumption is failure, period. theres no repair since its a hard part internal failure.

 

Hey Brute,

If your talking to me, you're preaching to the choir. Oil control rings get my vote, which means nothing. This is about some guy who has a free engine coming to him, and I'm trying to help him get it. Think he'll grease me for it?

 

Na Andy, I wasnt speaking to you, only the post where they did a leak down and compression test..Not everyone knows what theyre doing (obviously for any of us at any given time) Just again reinterating that those test dont meen squat with oil control issue. They can still be great, and fog for mosquitos...
But I agree, he needs an engine and should have been done along time ago. And Ill give ya an ATTABOY!!!!

 

Thanks, that's more grease than I'm likely to get from Smokey McSkeeto.

 

JTO - I appreciate your technical insight, and certainly all the help you have provided me on other posts (both directly and indirectly), and I know I asked for suggestions a while ago on how to approach the dealer, but c'mon, the technical side of me also wants your technical feedback!

As I stated, the dealer is still searching for answers, and your post (after telling me my tech question was moot ) regarding the rings helps a lot. It helps me figure out if the dealer is, well, pardon the expression, "blowing smoke", or if they are really heading down the right track.

To be honest, "awaiting their confirmation" doesn't really inspire me, as they've "confirmed" it was the PCV valve twice! If I had posted on the forum and asked for your help then you would have told me they weren't doing a real investigation of the source of the problem (which I suspected anyway) and I wouldn't be in such a pickle, because the car would have still been under warranty!

 

And of course, not to leave anyone out, Brutal, love you too man.

Any of us who only know enough to get in trouble appreciate the insight from all the techs out there who take their time to contribute on this and other Jag forums.

I hope to hear something definite back today.

 

OK, I've been posting on forums long enough to have established myself as a credible source of information. That doesn't mean I present myself as omniscient: it means I try real hard not to stick my greasy foot in my mouth, and thereby cast doubt over the validity of everything I have written before and everything I shall write from that point on.

If anybody wants to know whether their mechanic is any good, talk with him for a while about your car and listen for the three magic words.

"I don't know."

He'll probably give you alot of information that you really don't understand, and that really doesn't matter. If he's a fool, or he's blowing smoke, you will never hear the magic words.

If he's smart enough to spill the secret, he will then use everything he knows to work towards the solution. Or have a darn good explanation of why he can't know, based on the limitations of his equipment, or experience, or intellect. Or the fact that he has to eat, so unlimited resources cannot be devoted without compensation.

That's a guy you know you can trust, whether you understood his technical jargon or not. There are no secrets. Sometimes, he doesn't know.

Down South, they talk a little different: so are the three words.

"No crystal ball."

That's how Brutal expesses the exact same logic and methodology that I employ. There isn't a disc full of secret information, or a tech line to consult with, or a magic interface to find the answers. There is fact, and the ability to acquire and comprehend it.

The fact is, your car is blowing oil. The fact is, the service manager who accompanied you on a test drive saw it. He now has ownership of that problem. He can't tell you there's nothing wrong. He can't tell you this is a new problem that they are not responsible to rectify, since he has acknowedged the pre-existing condition. He can only tell you he doesn't know, and start working toward the solution.

And he knows all of that. The last thing you need to do is to tell him how to do his job.

I've already spent too much time trying to "inspire" you, and all you want me to do is take guesses. My suspicion is that that you have a broken or improperly installed oil control ring in cylinder number 8 (B-4), and it's been that way since day one. It has therefore worn at an increased rate, so the abnormal amount of oil being burned at 15,000 miles has increased to the McSkeeto killer they are examining today. That's exactly what I postulated in post #31, and have not read information which is contradictory. That's where Brutal was leaning in post #23.

I can't take their test results as fact, I didn't record them myself. I don't know how I would confirm my suspicion, other than to eliminate all other possibilities: that's what Brutal and jag-genius were trying to do in posts #13 through #19. That's what your dealer was doing when they replaced your PCV valve the first time. When that attempt proved ineffective, that's when I would have begun to acquire fact, not blow smoke. Absent of any confirmation, I would have torn down the engine as a last resort to inspect the oil control rings. At the dealership level, that means eliminating all external factors and then installing a rebuilt engine. Whatever the internal fault is...it's moot.

When I choose to participate in a thread, I'm taking ownership of it. That doesn't mean I'm competing with anybody, or that my answers are the only correct ones: it means I have committed my answer to scrutiny, and that avoiding further discussion will call my credibility into question.

I gave you the best advice I had to give, and everything you needed, in post #25. Including the magic words. The rest is all moot.

 

Very good andrew, i also use, "i dont have x ray vision" i cant see through plastic and steel either..i think we're all trying to express to you pcm that youre past the point of reasons and excuses. Unless they want to tear it down to see(waste of time and money for all concerned) they just need to replace the engine. We (as responsible do the right thing techs) dont want you to keep getting the hot poker

 

Thaks boss, I didn't think I was speaking out of turn when speaking on your behalf. You turn wrenches in the right direction.

 

Thanks guys, car still at the dealer, will keep you posted. At this point it is up to Jag, dealer is working with engineers at factory towards a resolution, which I suspect will be a new motor. Haven't heard any mention of any other "fixes"...

 

It will be interesting to see what the dealer finds. Although the techs have agreed it looks like broken rings, and it certainly could be, that is pretty unusual in a car with low mileage like this (it started at 15K). It think it more likely that you have a leaking head gasket near this cylinder that is either allowing coolant or oil into the cylinder on heavy acceleration, which both increases oil pressure and coolant flow. These cars had some problems with loose head bolts and this can produce the problem.

 

This is really got me on the edge of my seat. I started reading this thread yesterday, & it felt like reading a novel. I know this is at Philip's expense and I do hope he gets a new engine from Jaguar.
Inquiring minds need to know!
________
List of Ford engines history

 

Thanks for all the feedback and best wishes. Still waiting ... dealer to factory discussions move at a snail's pace. I can't complain too much because they've got me in a same-spec XJ loaner and considering I'm no longer under warranty that's a real life-saver.

It sounds like the factory is meticulously ruling everything else out. It still remains to be seen if they will cover repairs at their expense, but so far so good.

 

Just wanted to drop another update...

Just got off the phone with my dealer's service manager. Factory boys flew down yesterday to look at the car and decided it was a collapsed ring on cylinder 1. They initially refused to cover under warranty but the persistence and common sense of the service manager won out - they are covering the cost of the new engine and he is going to cover the labor.

Bottom line, end of next week I should have a new engine in my car. This entire process has been an exercise in patience, but through it all they have kept me in an XJ loaner and fought the battles with the factory for me. Consider this a glowing recommendation of Jag of Tampa's Service Department and especially the service manager.

 

Done deal, factory shipped new engine and dealer installed it. Have put over 1K miles on it without issue.

Thanks to all for their help, glad this chapter of our life is closed!

 

That's one for the good guy column. I would not expect that they investigated the cause of the failure and reported to you,...but I'll ask, just in case. Any info?