X358 braking issues!
#22
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Location: Glasgow, Scotland UK
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#24
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Well called in to see Dave re this issue, a cross between nervous and almost excited, been chasing this down for a while now!!
I went through everything that had been done again and vented my frustration as Dave got the car jacked up and started to remove the drivers side wheel. This was after a brief test drive so he could experience it for himself of course.
As the wheel came off, he checked various bushings etc and then also checked for hub run out, removing the disc after checking that too....... he commented on how well it looked and that everything seemed in really good order.
Discs, calipers and caliper carriers were all removed too and everything was checked, wire brushed and or cleaned. He eventually got around to removing the piston with a quick shot of compressed air it popped out really easily. He checked the slider pins and they were all A ok, the piston looked great as did the seals and everything else.
Strange to say but NOT GOOD......I was hoping for the exact opposite!!
All cleaned, wire brushed, lubricated, new seals and piston, sliders etc etc and all buttoned back up, wheel on....done, now for the passenger side.
Started the same process on the passenger side and everything was duplicated and everything was bang on the same, no issues, nothing to show for the nights work, then.......
As he got the caliper off and was setting about removing the piston in exactly the same way with compressed air, pffff.......nothing!
The piston on the drivers side just popped right out very easily?
Tried again, and again and then, bam, out she came.
There you go he says, there's your problem!!!
The piston was rusted around the rim and had been sticking, not retracting as easily as it should have been, probably stuck on, causing the disc to heat up and or warping causing the brake judder he reckons, see attached pics.....
As before all replaced, wire brushed, cleaned, lubricated and put back together
Went for a test drive and yes, the issue still seems to remain, albeit less aggressive. He reckons that the disc will be warped / have run out on the internal face and once replaced should be all good.
This could be music to my ears!!!
I'll be checking with Prestige and Pagid tomorrow ( They promised another set of discs / pads under warranty ) and hope to get them fitted ASAP and get an alignment done, possibly wheels double checked again for balance and see if this is finally sorted.
Fingers crossed, but could be the best £100 I've spent in a long time
I'll report back obviously
Jim
I went through everything that had been done again and vented my frustration as Dave got the car jacked up and started to remove the drivers side wheel. This was after a brief test drive so he could experience it for himself of course.
As the wheel came off, he checked various bushings etc and then also checked for hub run out, removing the disc after checking that too....... he commented on how well it looked and that everything seemed in really good order.
Discs, calipers and caliper carriers were all removed too and everything was checked, wire brushed and or cleaned. He eventually got around to removing the piston with a quick shot of compressed air it popped out really easily. He checked the slider pins and they were all A ok, the piston looked great as did the seals and everything else.
Strange to say but NOT GOOD......I was hoping for the exact opposite!!
All cleaned, wire brushed, lubricated, new seals and piston, sliders etc etc and all buttoned back up, wheel on....done, now for the passenger side.
Started the same process on the passenger side and everything was duplicated and everything was bang on the same, no issues, nothing to show for the nights work, then.......
As he got the caliper off and was setting about removing the piston in exactly the same way with compressed air, pffff.......nothing!
The piston on the drivers side just popped right out very easily?
Tried again, and again and then, bam, out she came.
There you go he says, there's your problem!!!
The piston was rusted around the rim and had been sticking, not retracting as easily as it should have been, probably stuck on, causing the disc to heat up and or warping causing the brake judder he reckons, see attached pics.....
As before all replaced, wire brushed, cleaned, lubricated and put back together
Went for a test drive and yes, the issue still seems to remain, albeit less aggressive. He reckons that the disc will be warped / have run out on the internal face and once replaced should be all good.
This could be music to my ears!!!
I'll be checking with Prestige and Pagid tomorrow ( They promised another set of discs / pads under warranty ) and hope to get them fitted ASAP and get an alignment done, possibly wheels double checked again for balance and see if this is finally sorted.
Fingers crossed, but could be the best £100 I've spent in a long time
I'll report back obviously
Jim
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paydase (05-13-2016)
#25
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Location: Glasgow, Scotland UK
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Into Prestige in the morning for new discs and pads again, at last...
Hopefully this should now resolve this issue, but only time will tell ( approx. 6-8 weeks usually does it )
The plan is to get the car checked for 4 wheel alignment too, as well as all 4 wheels checked for balance and redone as may be required.....leaving nothing to chance
Jim
Hopefully this should now resolve this issue, but only time will tell ( approx. 6-8 weeks usually does it )
The plan is to get the car checked for 4 wheel alignment too, as well as all 4 wheels checked for balance and redone as may be required.....leaving nothing to chance
Jim
#26
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#29
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Well, in at my Indy today to look at these issues again.
Pagid have once again, stepped up to the plate, even though I guess I theory / practice they could've walked away by now!
They supplied another free set of discs and pads, see pic.....
These were fitted by my Indy and then I asked for a 4 wheel alignment, this was done too, all for no charge!!
Happy bunny to say the least.
Of course as it stands at the moment the braking juddering issue is resolved, only time will tell if the piston was indeed the cause, I should know in about 6-8 weeks I guess.
Afterwards even though I was confident that the wheels were properly balanced I had the fronts done again.
All good for now
Jim
Pagid have once again, stepped up to the plate, even though I guess I theory / practice they could've walked away by now!
They supplied another free set of discs and pads, see pic.....
These were fitted by my Indy and then I asked for a 4 wheel alignment, this was done too, all for no charge!!
Happy bunny to say the least.
Of course as it stands at the moment the braking juddering issue is resolved, only time will tell if the piston was indeed the cause, I should know in about 6-8 weeks I guess.
Afterwards even though I was confident that the wheels were properly balanced I had the fronts done again.
All good for now
Jim
#30
Well, in at my Indy today to look at these issues again.
Happy bunny to say the least.
Of course as it stands at the moment the braking juddering issue is resolved, only time will tell if the piston was indeed the cause, I should know in about 6-8 weeks I guess.
Afterwards even though I was confident that the wheels were properly balanced I had the fronts done again.
All good for now
Jim
Happy bunny to say the least.
Of course as it stands at the moment the braking juddering issue is resolved, only time will tell if the piston was indeed the cause, I should know in about 6-8 weeks I guess.
Afterwards even though I was confident that the wheels were properly balanced I had the fronts done again.
All good for now
Jim
#31
#32
#33
The question to ask is what causes that type of corrosion, and how long was it left unattended. No braking system should be allowed to get to that point, and when you just slap pads on, without bi-yearly fluid flush, and caliper square seal replacement during the brake job, (as well as other rubber items) this is the result. It's why I say, no brake job should be done half way. It is one of the most ignored, and most needed items of any complete brake job. Your life, and the life of others rely solely on this system to stop nearly 2 tons of rolling metal.
Last edited by Box; 05-14-2016 at 05:05 AM.
#34
You did not answer JagV8's simple but relevant question ?
" Originally Posted by JagV8
What percent of those do you find a bad piston? "
" The question to ask is what causes that type of corrosion, and how long was it left unattended. No braking system should be allowed to get to that point, and when you just slap pads on, without bi-yearly fluid flush, and caliper square seal replacement during the brake job, (as well as other rubber items) this is the result. It's why I say, no brake job should be done half way. It is one of the most ignored, and most needed items of any complete brake job. Your life, and the life of others rely solely on this system to stop nearly 2 tons of rolling metal. "
" Originally Posted by JagV8
What percent of those do you find a bad piston? "
" The question to ask is what causes that type of corrosion, and how long was it left unattended. No braking system should be allowed to get to that point, and when you just slap pads on, without bi-yearly fluid flush, and caliper square seal replacement during the brake job, (as well as other rubber items) this is the result. It's why I say, no brake job should be done half way. It is one of the most ignored, and most needed items of any complete brake job. Your life, and the life of others rely solely on this system to stop nearly 2 tons of rolling metal. "
Last edited by mastersid; 05-14-2016 at 07:58 AM.
#35
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#37
I can't stress strongly enough, that if you feel that a brake job consists of replacing pads, and maybe the rotor, then you are only doing half a brake job. Both fluid and calipers need regular maintenance as well, and Jaguar certainly has brake fluid replacement every 2 years as part of the regular scheduled service requirements. But even a brake bleed will not get all of the corrosive fluid out of the caliper itself, only disassembly and cleaning will do that.
So to answer your question bluntly, if the proper maintenance at time of brake job is done, (20~30k miles when pads are replaced) very seldom if never. If improper or half done brake jobs are performed, (not performing caliper rebuild service) by 100k mile, you are more than likely to find corroded piston surfaces.
Last edited by Box; 05-14-2016 at 08:19 AM.
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paydase (05-14-2016)
#38
David , thanks for your reply
Take a closer look at Jim's piston , from where the seal sits to the bottom end of the piston there is NO " corrosive affect of fluid ".
What can be seen is the failure of the outer dust boot which has caused the oxidization at the top end of the piston .
I also think it's a bit premature to suggest that the piston is at fault given that Jim has said it will take about 6-8 weeks to find out .
And by the way , you still have not answered JagV8's question ?
Have a good day David ,
Sid
Take a closer look at Jim's piston , from where the seal sits to the bottom end of the piston there is NO " corrosive affect of fluid ".
What can be seen is the failure of the outer dust boot which has caused the oxidization at the top end of the piston .
I also think it's a bit premature to suggest that the piston is at fault given that Jim has said it will take about 6-8 weeks to find out .
And by the way , you still have not answered JagV8's question ?
Have a good day David ,
Sid
#39
David , thanks for your reply
Take a closer look at Jim's piston , from where the seal sits to the bottom end of the piston there is NO " corrosive affect of fluid ".
What can be seen is the failure of the outer dust boot which has caused the oxidization at the top end of the piston .
I also think it's a bit premature to suggest that the piston is at fault given that Jim has said it will take about 6-8 weeks to find out .
And by the way , you still have not answered JagV8's question ?
Have a good day David ,
Sid
Take a closer look at Jim's piston , from where the seal sits to the bottom end of the piston there is NO " corrosive affect of fluid ".
What can be seen is the failure of the outer dust boot which has caused the oxidization at the top end of the piston .
I also think it's a bit premature to suggest that the piston is at fault given that Jim has said it will take about 6-8 weeks to find out .
And by the way , you still have not answered JagV8's question ?
Have a good day David ,
Sid
I'll say it again, any time you replace pads, and do not exchange both fluid and rebuild the calipers, you have only done half a brake job. Preventive maintenance is what keeps issues like this, from becoming an issue. You should know this if you are in this industry, and properly trained.
Last edited by Box; 05-14-2016 at 10:16 AM.
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paydase (05-14-2016)
#40
David , I'll let the Forum members decide whether they feel the need or the expense to dismantle and clean their calipers at every " service interval " .
The question you seem to be avoiding is really quite simple ,
After you have inspected your pistons at every service interval , what percentage of those pistons were bad ? , given that your XJ8 is now 12 years old .
Sid
The question you seem to be avoiding is really quite simple ,
After you have inspected your pistons at every service interval , what percentage of those pistons were bad ? , given that your XJ8 is now 12 years old .
Sid