XJ XJ6 / XJR6 ( X300 ) 1995-1997

1995 XJ6 High Rough Idle

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #1  
Old 10-08-2012 | 03:48 AM
Grant Francis's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 27,838
Likes: 10,621
From: Adelaide Stralia
Question 1995 XJ6 High Rough Idle

OK, first things first, you are NEW, so welcome to our side.

Secondly, the '95 XJ6 is waaay too modern for this area. Your car is known in Jag world as an X300.

Maybe??, one of the moderators will see this and move your post to that area, or simply repost in there to get the best responses.

Since it is a USA car, I would suggests the EGR (exhaust gas recirculating) system is giving you grief, as is well documented here. We dont have that system so I am of no help.

That bellows is in need of replacement, as any "un-metered" air will reek havoc with the engine. It is readily available from any Jag parts mob via this site.

Vac leaks on the AJ16 is not a common complaint, so fix that bellows, clean the EGR valve, and I reckon most of the gremlins will be sorted.
 

Last edited by Grant Francis; 10-08-2012 at 03:51 AM.
The following users liked this post:
danarothrock (10-09-2012)
  #2  
Old 10-10-2012 | 12:31 AM
danarothrock's Avatar
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 18
Likes: 2
From: Plant City, FL
Question 1995 XJ6 High Rough Idle

Reposted from wrong forum.

Was low idle, stalling at stops, rough idle, throttle sticking. Cleaned IACV and throttle body. After cleaning, high idle 1800 rpm, rough idle when in gear. TB no longer sticks. Runs smooth at high rpm.

Air intake rubber boot to TB may be leaking. Malformed, lots of oil in it. Duck taped it. Where can I get another of these?

How can I check for vacuum leaks?

Thanks in advance.

Grant Francis answered:

Since it is a USA car, I would suggests the EGR (exhaust gas recirculating) system is giving you grief, as is well documented here. We dont have that system so I am of no help.

That bellows is in need of replacement, as any "un-metered" air will reek havoc with the engine. It is readily available from any Jag parts mob via this site.

Vac leaks on the AJ16 is not a common complaint, so fix that bellows, clean the EGR valve, and I reckon most of the gremlins will be sorted.
What is a "Jag parts mob"? Where can I get the bellows?

Thanks
Dana
 
  #3  
Old 10-10-2012 | 03:18 AM
danarothrock's Avatar
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 18
Likes: 2
From: Plant City, FL
Thumbs down Cleaned EGR

I cleaned the EGR, but not much difference. After heating up, it backed down a bit to 1600 RPM idle, but in gear it dropped to 800, shakes and wavers about 50 RPM up and down. Seems smooth when revved, but still wavers a bit.

Where can I buy that rubber bellows between the throttle body and air intake?

Thank you.
 
  #4  
Old 10-10-2012 | 05:16 AM
Grant Francis's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 27,838
Likes: 10,621
From: Adelaide Stralia
Default

The bellows is available from any Jag parts mob, such as the ones on this site.

Also check the elbow from that bellows going back toward the MAF, as they do crack at the moulding weld, and also at the small lug that attaches it to the rubber mounting pin.

I am also thinking that the TPS may be out of synch, well documented, and I think???, needs the dealer intervention to re-synch. Someone in your market will certainly say different on that if it is do-able yourself.
 
  #5  
Old 10-10-2012 | 05:29 AM
steveinfrance's Avatar
Veteran Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,278
Likes: 687
From: Limousin, France
Default

There's something in the download section
Free Cloud Storage - MediaFire
Grant - do these engines need a hard reset + throttle retrain like the XK'S after messing about with their 'precious bits'?
 
  #6  
Old 10-10-2012 | 07:43 AM
Grant Francis's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 27,838
Likes: 10,621
From: Adelaide Stralia
Default

Steve,

Not sure on the 4ltr USA cars.

My 3.2 does not. I have messed with most of "her" special bits over the last 3 years and NEVER had issues with idle, performance, whatever.

I think?? the non electronic transmission on the smaller engine cars "may" be the key to that.
 
  #7  
Old 10-10-2012 | 07:49 AM
Grant Francis's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 27,838
Likes: 10,621
From: Adelaide Stralia
Default

Originally Posted by danarothrock

Grant Francis answered:



What is a "Jag parts mob"? Where can I get the bellows?

Thanks
Dana
OH, Parts mob = "your local spare parts supplier", either the dealer, or the parts supporters of this site.

I'm down here and we talk strange apparently, but it makes perfect sense to me, just like the steering wheel on the RH side as designed HAHAHA.

Something else I have read on here is that by disconnecting the battery and letting the systems reset (about 30 minutes), can "sometimes" bring the car back to "normal".
 
  #8  
Old 10-10-2012 | 11:39 PM
danarothrock's Avatar
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 18
Likes: 2
From: Plant City, FL
Thumbs down 30-minute reset?

I'll try the reset a little longer than 10 seconds this time.

Got two more hands and was able to properly reinstall the air bellows. No change. I can disconnect all the electronics (GRS, IACV, MAFS, IAT), and it runs the same. Turned the idle adjustment screw out a couple turns, need to shorten my Allen wrench. I think that slowed it up a couple hundred RPMs, but it still shakes at low revs.

Meanwhile, the 5-year-old locked himself in the trunk, then messed up the windshield wiper - it won't turn off with the ignition off. Sometimes stops in the middle of the windshield - at random. Will wipe slow and fast, just not intermittent and not off. I am not going to go into the steering column, at least until I start having some luck of the good kind.

What do I need to read the codes?
 
  #9  
Old 10-11-2012 | 05:45 AM
steveinfrance's Avatar
Veteran Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,278
Likes: 687
From: Limousin, France
Default

Check this thread for scanners known to work on your car
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/g...-%2A%2A-33347/
You can probably get away with a cheapo from EBay.
If you've got an Android phone there's an excellent app called 'Torque' but you need a bluetooth adaptor and mine didn't work - it seems to be Russian roulette.
 
  #10  
Old 10-12-2012 | 12:32 AM
danarothrock's Avatar
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 18
Likes: 2
From: Plant City, FL
Question OBDII for 1995? Reset fixed wiper.

I thought OBDII code scanners were 1996 and forward. The only one approved is
OBDII Code Scanners ** Member Approved
CodeKey, tested on 1995 XJ6

OBDII or OBDI?

I unplugged the battery for 4 hours, re-connected and now the windshield wiper is functioning properly. I let the boy out of the trunk.

I disconnected the topside sensors. The MAFS kills the engine. Disconnecting the IACV drops the idle from 1800 down to 1500 and in-gear is rougher, shakier. IAT and EGR have no effect.

I need a code reader before I take it to the Jag dealership. Can't find CodeKey on eBay or Amazon, anywhere.
 
  #11  
Old 10-13-2012 | 01:34 PM
Yuruki's Avatar
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 8
Likes: 11
From: Finland
Default

I have been successfully using an ELM327 based bluetooth OBD dongle on XJR 95.

If you search for elm327 on eBay you'll get a LOT of hits. The version I have is orange and blue with a white line in the middle.
 
The following users liked this post:
MikeyB10 (08-13-2017)
  #12  
Old 10-13-2012 | 03:49 PM
XJRengineer's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 834
Likes: 665
From: UK
Default

Disconnecting the battery will have no effect on the engine ECU since all adaptions are held in non-volatile RAM. It sounds like your car does not go into closed loop iodle speed control when the car is stationary and your foot is not on the accelerator pedal. Aassuming that the throttle butterfly itself is shut, then the ECU does not recognise that the throttle is shut. If you have access to a scan tool check that the throttle is ready about 12%. If it much more than this then you will need to have a throttle adaption test run by a Jaguar dealer of good independent Jaguar specialist.
 
  #13  
Old 10-15-2012 | 12:54 AM
danarothrock's Avatar
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 18
Likes: 2
From: Plant City, FL
Question 1995 XJ6 OBDII 11 PCodes - What next?

Used Actron CP9125 OBD II PocketScan
I can't find true 1995 XJ6 OBD codes, here is an attempt:

P0113 - IAT Sensor 1 Circuit High Input
P1199 - Fuel Level Input Low (gas gauge doesn't work)
P0400 - EGR Flow Malfunction
P1508 - IACV Circuit Open
P1509 - IACV Circuit Shorted
P0139 - O2 Sensor CKT Slow Response Bank 1 Sensor 2
P1409 - EGR Circuit
P0304 - Cylinder 4 Misfire
P0303 - Cylinder 3 Misfire
P1316 - Ignition System or Misfire
P1314 - Misfire Rate Catalyst Damage Fault - Bank 2

What should I do next?

Thanks, again.
 
  #14  
Old 10-15-2012 | 01:11 AM
danarothrock's Avatar
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 18
Likes: 2
From: Plant City, FL
Default

On second thought, since unplugging the battery may not have reset the codes, I will reset with the OBD tool, drive around and publish the codes again tomorrow.
 
  #15  
Old 10-18-2012 | 12:36 AM
danarothrock's Avatar
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 18
Likes: 2
From: Plant City, FL
Post Getting to know her...

Well, I erased the codes with the OBD tool. Started up and shut down several times. Read the codes. Check engine light is off for the first time in 4 years. MIL light is off. Zero codes show. Only 3 of the 9 monitors were ready. I'll have to drive around for a week or so to collect enough data on the other monitors. I thought I was onto something when the high 1800 RPM idle slacked off a little more each time I started the engine. Got down to 1300 RPM. Still shakes and misfires in gear at low idle 600 RPM. I was about to give up, but decided to erase codes and try again. She went back to 1800 RPM. Started, shut down a few more times and appears to be slacking off the high idle - down to 1650 RPM. I guess I'll drive it a while and try not to wear out the brakes. Maybe it slowly adjusts to erasure of all those bad codes.

Now I know that disconnecting the battery does not erase the computer codes. You have to use an OBD tool on the 1995 XJ6. This is different from my GM cars.

Has anyone driven with regular gas instead of high test? Maybe that will slow her down a little. The ethanol and water could be a problem, too. I have to use gas treatment in all my old vehicles or they stall out and run bad.
 
  #16  
Old 10-18-2012 | 09:00 AM
XJRengineer's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 834
Likes: 665
From: UK
Default

Fundamentally, your engine idle speed is too high because too much air is flowing into the engine. There are 3 possible causes:-
1) an air leak downstream of the throttle - check for leaks, especially any vacuum signals that terminate away from the engine
2) the throttle butterfly does not shut properly - check that the quadrant hits the mechanical stop
3) the idle speed control valve is too far open

The last option can occur either because the valve is stuck or because the ECU isn't trying to move it. This in turn is because it isn't trying to control the engine speed as it does not recognise that the thottle buttefly is shut. This can happen if the throttle potentiometer has failed or is reading a voltage (expressed as a percentage when read with an OBDII scan tool) that is higher than a value which the ECU has previously "learnt" as being the value when the throttle is closed. If the ECU has "learnt" a closed percentage which is lower than the percentage that is now achived when the throttle is mechanically closed, then this closed "adaption" must be reset. This needs to be done by a dealer or a good independent Jaguar specialist with the right service diagnostic equipment. A typical after market OBDII code reader does not have this functionality.
 
  #17  
Old 10-19-2012 | 02:29 AM
danarothrock's Avatar
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 18
Likes: 2
From: Plant City, FL
Default

Fundamentally, your engine idle speed is too high because too much air is flowing into the engine. There are 3 possible causes:-
1) an air leak downstream of the throttle - check for leaks, especially any vacuum signals that terminate away from the engine
2) the throttle butterfly does not shut properly - check that the quadrant hits the mechanical stop
3) the idle speed control valve is too far open
1) I don't know how to check for vacuum leaks.
2) I cleaned throttle body, it hits the stop.
3) By "throttle potentiometer", do you mean throttle position sensor (TPS)?

Tonight I got two codes - P1199 (fuel guage doesn't work) and P1314 MISFIRE RATE CATALYST DAMAGE FAULT - BANK 2. No misfire cylinder codes.

Idle RPMs started out high 1800, then dropped to 1200 after heating up. Drove around a bit and seemed to run smoother at idle stopped in-gear - not so much shaking as before. Runs real smooth at high RPMs, only idle problems.

I will drive it some more until all monitors are "READY". Only 4 READY now - MISFIRE, FUEL, COMP, O2 SENSR.

My cheap OBDII reader doesn't show percentages. I will try to find a good Jag mechanic with diagnostic equipment.
 
  #18  
Old 10-20-2012 | 06:11 AM
XJRengineer's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 834
Likes: 665
From: UK
Default

You can listen for air leaks. There is another approach, but not one I would recommend for those unfamiliar with it.

The throttle potntiometer is another name for the TPS.
 
  #19  
Old 02-23-2013 | 10:49 PM
danarothrock's Avatar
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 18
Likes: 2
From: Plant City, FL
Default Running smooth

It's been 4 months. The clean-up helped the most. Lot of carbon buildup in IACV and throttle body. No more sticky pedal. The high idle eventually went away. Had to start and stop the vehicle many times (20 - 40) until the idle was normal. I guess the computer has to adjust.

Was still getting misfire on cyl 4. Put in a cheap $60 on-plug coil and it shorted out my dashboard lights - flashed on and off like turning key off and on. Replaced the bad coil with a better one $100 and the engine runs smooth as a Swiss watch.

Thanks for all the help. The local mechanics refuse to work on the car.

 
The following users liked this post:
MikeyB10 (08-13-2017)
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
1100me
XJS ( X27 )
46
07-24-2023 07:10 PM
Bcrary3
XJ XJ8 / XJR ( X308 )
35
02-21-2023 05:29 AM
rusty37
XJ6 & XJ12 Series I, II & III
6
04-05-2020 08:40 PM
JimMLiny
New Member Area - Intro a MUST
13
09-09-2015 09:13 PM
Bowman
XK8 / XKR ( X100 )
6
09-03-2015 04:17 PM

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 


Quick Reply: 1995 XJ6 High Rough Idle



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:46 PM.