My 96 3.2 Sport always churns for several engine revolutions before starting.No difference hot or cold. No difference if last run last week or last run a few minutes ago. It then runs smoothly as soon as it fires.

i have replaced the fuel pressure regulator and battery condition is good. Switching the ignition on and off a few times in case it’s lack of fuel on the short startup pulse makes no difference. I should replace the fuel pump relay as it’s a blue one which is likely original. Car has done125k mile and I have no record of fuel pump replacement one way or the other.

After trawl of posts on starting issues and noting the CPMS only functions for a few seconds to identify which cylinder to fire, after which the ECU ignores it, I removed the CPMS wiring connector. The contacts looked clean and not corroded.

On trying a start with the wiring to the CMPS disconnected, if anything the start was quicker than normal.

I’ve seen the threads about turning the engine over to TDC and checking the cam position through the oil filler.

Thought as a start I’d see if any movement on the adjusting slot on the CPMS made any difference, but on loosening the retaining bolt, the CPMS body is not inclined to move. Am I failing to spot another clamp retaining the body or do I just need to be firm with it ? Don’t want to break anything.

I’d wondered why anyone would have disturbed the CPMS anyway, but I see a mention of it needing to be removed to for the revised timing chain tensioner.

i see the CPMS assembly seems to be NLA but used ones do turn up on eBay etc. If it’s an electrical fault with the actual sensor I guess it’s not a generic part. I did see ones listed for XJs by one of the usual UK suspects but they were for the XJ12.

Can the CPMS be tested off the car with an oscilloscope ?

Alan
3.2 Sport.

 

The Camshaft Position Sensor CMPS code 340 is a 3 wire hall effect sensor different then the Crankshaft Position Sensor CKPS code 335 as it is a inductor

I had the 340 code and found the CMPS reads 600 ohms as a basic meter reading

The true firing TDC as the crankshaft rotates 2 times as a 4 cycle engine vs, the camshaft rotating only once

As you look at the crankshaft toothed gear as the relunctor for the CKPS inductor sensor there is a timing mark on the car's left lower position on the engine block

This timing mark can be adjusted although it should not be

XJRenguneer ( Andy on the original AJ16 Jaguar engine design team ) had a method of determining the true # 1 TDC by feelnig through the oil servicing cap and feeling the # 3 valve extension / retraction position

There was some question as to if the intake valve was the # 3 of a AJ16 or AJ6 engine as they reversed the cylider position map

The AJ16 engine has the # 1 as the Fwd most cylinder

AJ16 TDC & Cam Timing - Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum






Editing

 

Thanks for that and for the cross reference

Alan

 

The CPMS sits in the position occupied by the distributor in the AJ6 engine, the predecessor to our AJ16, and has some similarity to a distributor in terms of how it is driven and how it is timed.
As has been mentioned, it plays a role in helping the engine to know its position on startup, and thereafter is essentially redundant. Should it be disconnected, the ECU has a default setting which will enable the engine to start, but after longer than normal cranking. The fact that that longer period of cranking seems shorter than your crank length with the CPMS connected would suggest to me that your CPMS is badly mistimed. This is easily done!
Like a distributor, it has a toothed drive, which can be installed significantly out of time if the unit has been extracted at some point ( eg for the timing chain tensioner replacement) and incorrectly reinstalled. Resetting your timing, referencing the dot on the rotating metal disc in the clear window on top of the CPMS should fix, although I found the best setting by trial and error rotating the CPMS by hand within the small adjustment range once I had it in the right ballpark.

 

Invested in a 3/4 W socket for the crank nut.

Turned over engine by hand until crank sensor above the tooth gap for TDC.

Checked cylinder 4( counting1as being at front) inlet cam up so valve closed. By looking through oil filler hole.

Dimple in cam sensor does line up with circle in viewing hole on cam position sensor, so looks ok not 180 out, provided I am looking at correct cam lobe.

Pity. Was hoping being 180 out might be the cause.


TDC ( or should be a fraction further rotated to right)?

Dimple on rotating part is centred

Inlet cam is up so valve closed on # 4 if #1 is at front

 

The crankshaft geared open tooth mark is in reference to the # 1 cylinder being at ignition spark or the piston has finished expelling the burnt exhaust and is just beginning to draw in fresh air

So it's 50 / 50

The ECU has to learn which one of these is the true firing TDC rotation

With the camshaft sensor connector removed the first ECU guess using the crankshaft sensor being correct and a successful start up or fail and the ECU will try the other crankshaft rotation

The ECU needs to see a rate of change to see starting success and carry on forward or changes the rotation choice , this is the time lag

The camshaft lobes only rotate once for every 2 crankshaft rotations

The camshaft sensor ( with the 6 open sensor targets for firing ) has to only rotate once for every 2 crankshaft rotations

Fingers doing the rotations in the air ..........................

What was your firing order to derive that the # 4 intake cam lob will be at the correct position at the true firing TDC of the # 1 ?

 

If the camshaft position sensor is alive it will read 600 ohms as a basic reading with a common meter on pin X and Y of the sensor connector

I had the camshaft sensor code P0340 until I cleaned the connector

I sourced a rebuilt camshaft position sensor from Auto Zone to give it a try

 

I see the firing order

1 5 3 6 2 4

For the 1st rotation of the crankshaft there are 3 TDC positions for 3 cylinders around the arc with one ( # 1 ) at the crankshaft missing tooth

Which means the other 3 cylinders are a exact copy of the first 3 on the 2nd rotation

See page 14

There is some timing information in there if I recall

Looked and didn't see it

 

I was using this old post from Jag.lovers. I suppose logic is that on 153624 order,if 4 has fired,and you rotate the crank to TDC on 1, the inlet valve on 4, visible thru the oil filler will be closed and the exhaust opened . The next to fire being 1 which we are putting to TDC on the firing stroke for the check on CMPS position.

incidentally the connector to the harness looked clean but I gave it a spray with switch cleaner and pushed it in and out a few times in case the pins were corroded tho they looked ok. I took the top off the CPMS and although there is not much to see, it looked clean and oil free..

Alan
3.2 Sport.

 

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Sorry about that , cat was standing on the computer and somehow hit send

 

gotta love cats.....

also parker, are you not getting my messages or you ignoring me?

 

I still have the same churning before starting issue.

I’ve checked the resistance across the two outer terminals with my small meter but not getting a reading so it’s maybe open circuit as Parker 7 was saying should be 600 ohms or so.

To try a replacement or indeed to try a different setting I need to remove the old CMPS. I have removed the 8mm adjustment lock bolt but the CMPS seems solidly into the drive recess and unwilling to move at all in any direction. I have tried releasing spray. Am I failing to remove another retaining bolt somewhere ? The only one I can see nearby seems to be a timing chain cover bolt near to and more or less level with the CMPS.

If there’s no other retainer, is it common for the CMPS to seize in the timing chain housing ?

Thanks

Alan

 

I found the O - ring on the cylinder that extends into the valve chain hole to be baked and flattened

Expect a trip to the hardware store plumbing section for a replacement O - ring

That can be wrong confusing it with tensioner

The assembly coming out of the hole has to spin out as helical / spiral shaped gears intermeshing

The meter you used should be a 9 volt battery powered meter ( horsepower ) and maybe a digital meter will not read a hall effect sensor

I was fortunely able to return my CMPS back to the store as I though mine was bad

The true TDC mark is a index arrow on the 4 0'clock position facing the crankshaft timing gear

XJRengineer used the same cam lobe procedure as he advised me