Failed starter and no compression
#1
Failed starter and no compression
Hi guys my name is Chris and I'm new here!
I am an avid car lover and I have been working on cars for over 20 years. I just love being a grease monkey lol!
Well the reason I'm here today is because my beloved Jaguar has been in a coma since January of this year. Its a 1996 Vanden Plas with the inline 4.0 non supercharged. I am the third owner of this car my father being the second. He purchased the car in 1999 for over 12 grand with 47,000+ miles on it. During the last 2 years of him owning it, it sat up more than he drove it. I constantly begged him to sell to me because of several issues with it and he just finally GAVE it to me! I brought her home and dropped another 600 bucks to bring her back to near showroom performance and appearance.
Now the bad part. Shortly after the first cold snap in Mississippi, I noticed on crank up I would hear a rattling noise for about a second and then I would go away. I figured it was due for an oil change and it fixed the problem for about a week. Noise came back and I was stuck trying to figure it out. The day before I left work and drove it home and all was fine until the next morning. It was 18 degrees and I started the car and it wouldn't crank. So I tried it again with no luck. Coincidently, my starter all failed on me. I brought the car to my shop 2 weeks later and replaced the starter. That's when I noticed the car felt like it had no compression. So I figured my chain had broken and I was utterly disappointed. Once I found out the cost to replace everything I said forget and let her sit until this week.
I started checking the internet and found that the tensioners can fail. I understand that the primary can cause the rattle but I think I waited too late. Today I pulled the valve cover and inspected the primary chain and tensioner and it was tight as a banjo string. I noticed that there was a secondary chain but I couldn't tell the condition of it. I can see it but can't touch it. I dont know if this is a interference motor or not, but I don't know if I bent any valves by trying to start it up.
I'm between a rock and a hard place. Any advice would be helpful at this point because I love this car so much! You wouldn't believe the looks I would get when it was running because it was like looking at a work of art when people saw it.
Thanks guys I really appreciate any advice you guys have! Oh I forgot she currently has 125,000+ mile as of the day it quit running if that helps.
Thanks!!
I am an avid car lover and I have been working on cars for over 20 years. I just love being a grease monkey lol!
Well the reason I'm here today is because my beloved Jaguar has been in a coma since January of this year. Its a 1996 Vanden Plas with the inline 4.0 non supercharged. I am the third owner of this car my father being the second. He purchased the car in 1999 for over 12 grand with 47,000+ miles on it. During the last 2 years of him owning it, it sat up more than he drove it. I constantly begged him to sell to me because of several issues with it and he just finally GAVE it to me! I brought her home and dropped another 600 bucks to bring her back to near showroom performance and appearance.
Now the bad part. Shortly after the first cold snap in Mississippi, I noticed on crank up I would hear a rattling noise for about a second and then I would go away. I figured it was due for an oil change and it fixed the problem for about a week. Noise came back and I was stuck trying to figure it out. The day before I left work and drove it home and all was fine until the next morning. It was 18 degrees and I started the car and it wouldn't crank. So I tried it again with no luck. Coincidently, my starter all failed on me. I brought the car to my shop 2 weeks later and replaced the starter. That's when I noticed the car felt like it had no compression. So I figured my chain had broken and I was utterly disappointed. Once I found out the cost to replace everything I said forget and let her sit until this week.
I started checking the internet and found that the tensioners can fail. I understand that the primary can cause the rattle but I think I waited too late. Today I pulled the valve cover and inspected the primary chain and tensioner and it was tight as a banjo string. I noticed that there was a secondary chain but I couldn't tell the condition of it. I can see it but can't touch it. I dont know if this is a interference motor or not, but I don't know if I bent any valves by trying to start it up.
I'm between a rock and a hard place. Any advice would be helpful at this point because I love this car so much! You wouldn't believe the looks I would get when it was running because it was like looking at a work of art when people saw it.
Thanks guys I really appreciate any advice you guys have! Oh I forgot she currently has 125,000+ mile as of the day it quit running if that helps.
Thanks!!
Last edited by GGG; 08-27-2014 at 02:20 AM. Reason: add detail to thread title
#2
#3
You'll be pleased to know that Timing chains snapping on these engines is unheard of, and the bottom end is pretty much bomb proof. They can suffer from burnt valves and cylinder head gasket failures.
Sudden loss of compression when starting the car after it was running fine is likely to be caused by "bore wash" which these engines are very susceptible to. It is usually induced by an engine stall very soon after starting. This is easily fixed with a teaspoon of oil in each cylinder. Search the forum for Bore Wash and you'll find a number of posts.
Have you actually carried out a compression test on the engine? That would be my first step if you suspect compression loss.
Sudden loss of compression when starting the car after it was running fine is likely to be caused by "bore wash" which these engines are very susceptible to. It is usually induced by an engine stall very soon after starting. This is easily fixed with a teaspoon of oil in each cylinder. Search the forum for Bore Wash and you'll find a number of posts.
Have you actually carried out a compression test on the engine? That would be my first step if you suspect compression loss.
#4
Welcome aboard, Chris!
Not sure, but perhaps you'll find something useful here:
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...ngines-120221/
Not sure, but perhaps you'll find something useful here:
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...ngines-120221/
#5
Thanks you b1 mcp!! You are God sent bro! It was a bore wash. As soon as I put everything back together I did as you said and cha ching!! Compression came back and cranked right up. It smoked for about 10mins and the went away. So thanks to you all for for your help. Now I have another question? My AC blows cool but not cold. I checked for leaks and it still had the recommended freon level. So I hooked up my AC machine, recovered the freon and evacuated all air and moisture. Charged it back up and still the same results. So now im stuck again because it blows hard and cool but not hard and cold. Thanks fellas!
#6
Congrats on getting it sorted!
You didn't say if your a/c pressures are normal or not, but I'll assume so since you have your own recovery machine and know how to use it.
If so, then a leaking water valve may be indicated. I was going to say "very slight leak" as it is only cool not warm or hot, but then remembered our history with the heater matrix in these cars and it could be wide open and still only have minor impact if your t'stat is stuck open and/or your heater is in need of flushing!
Quickest method to eliminating that as a cause-factor would probably be to get a 3'-4' length of heater hose and bypass the entire WV/Aux pump/Heater core matrix and see if your air blows cold. Wait, maybe an even easier method, is your a/c nice and cold on cold-start and then becomes cool after 40 seconds or so? or just cool from the get-go?
I suppose a malfunction in your TXV could explain it but I'd think that would leave a trail in your high-side and low-side pressures. Others have reported problems with the system being clogged with beads from a ruptured dessicant bag in the Rec/Dr but again...I "think" they saw a problem in the pressures.
PDF in post #5 shows the bypass path: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-today-109984/
Good luck and keep us posted as to what mends it.
You didn't say if your a/c pressures are normal or not, but I'll assume so since you have your own recovery machine and know how to use it.
If so, then a leaking water valve may be indicated. I was going to say "very slight leak" as it is only cool not warm or hot, but then remembered our history with the heater matrix in these cars and it could be wide open and still only have minor impact if your t'stat is stuck open and/or your heater is in need of flushing!
Quickest method to eliminating that as a cause-factor would probably be to get a 3'-4' length of heater hose and bypass the entire WV/Aux pump/Heater core matrix and see if your air blows cold. Wait, maybe an even easier method, is your a/c nice and cold on cold-start and then becomes cool after 40 seconds or so? or just cool from the get-go?
I suppose a malfunction in your TXV could explain it but I'd think that would leave a trail in your high-side and low-side pressures. Others have reported problems with the system being clogged with beads from a ruptured dessicant bag in the Rec/Dr but again...I "think" they saw a problem in the pressures.
PDF in post #5 shows the bypass path: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-today-109984/
Good luck and keep us posted as to what mends it.
Last edited by aholbro1; 08-30-2014 at 08:59 AM.
The following users liked this post:
MountainMan (09-02-2014)
#7
Yeah I have a snap on recovery machine and I cant recall the actual pressure readings on it but I also performed a leak test and it passed. I noticed today that it's more cooler on the driver side than the p/side. But it's still not cold even on start up. My dad was the previous owner and he said he would always add another half can of freon, but that was when the hi side port was leaking. That was fixed shortly after I got the car. But it's still not want to blow snow *****. My 90 Cadillac blows harder than this car and that sucks. I had problems from the heater pump but it was fixed also back in November. So as of now im stuck. Thanks guys!
Trending Topics
#8
aholbro1 might be correct if the dessicant bag in the rec/drier ruptured.
I find this fault every few years on customer cars. (I just did this a few months ago)
The pressures might be close to normal but the high side line from the rec/drier to the firewall will be cool instead of hot. It might get cooler as you get closer the firewall connection because the 'beads' act like an orifice or expansion valve. You cannot have 2 expansion valves in series.
Evacuate, disconnect the pipe from the rec/drier and the bulkhead flange. Blow compressed air through and see if any debris is clogging the pipe. If 'beads' of dessicant come out, then back flush the EVAP core/expansion valve assy. and metal pipe (rec/drier pipe).
Replace the rec/drier and recharge system.
I have had to back flush a few times to get all the 'beads' out of a contaminated system. Sometimes they cool for a while and then get clogged again. I have to evacuate, back flush and recharge.
Removing the 'low side' connector on the bulkhead to back flush is easier than removing the entire climate control heat exchanger box. The 'beads' should not get past the expansion valve but might become lodged in it.
Been there, done that a few times.
bob gauff
I find this fault every few years on customer cars. (I just did this a few months ago)
The pressures might be close to normal but the high side line from the rec/drier to the firewall will be cool instead of hot. It might get cooler as you get closer the firewall connection because the 'beads' act like an orifice or expansion valve. You cannot have 2 expansion valves in series.
Evacuate, disconnect the pipe from the rec/drier and the bulkhead flange. Blow compressed air through and see if any debris is clogging the pipe. If 'beads' of dessicant come out, then back flush the EVAP core/expansion valve assy. and metal pipe (rec/drier pipe).
Replace the rec/drier and recharge system.
I have had to back flush a few times to get all the 'beads' out of a contaminated system. Sometimes they cool for a while and then get clogged again. I have to evacuate, back flush and recharge.
Removing the 'low side' connector on the bulkhead to back flush is easier than removing the entire climate control heat exchanger box. The 'beads' should not get past the expansion valve but might become lodged in it.
Been there, done that a few times.
bob gauff
The following users liked this post:
MountainMan (09-02-2014)
#9
Thanks for the advice. I'm to try this Tuesday when I get back to work. I just thought it was odd that my d/side was cooler than the p/side. The driver side isn't cold by any means but if that's the case then I'll try it. I will keep you guys posted. By the way what do the price usually run for a new dryer?
#11
Nope. It is mounted horizontally atop your condenser - the heat exchanger coil located behind the grille and in front of your radiator. I just posted a pic in another thread that shows it...hang on...
It is the cylinder at the top of the second picture in post #2 here: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-maybe-125216/
IIRC, Rock Auto has them for about $40.
_____________________________________________
Haha, IDRC, off by a factor of 2! $10-$20:
VISTA-PRO Part # 30494
Drier/Accumulator [Wholesaler Closeout - Private Label Pkg. - 30 Day Warranty] (Only 2 Remaining)$10.62ÜRO PARTS Part # MMD7410AA A/C Receiver Drier
R12 or R134a Compatible
$14.16GPD Part # 1411510 (Only 6 Remaining)
$15.94FOUR SEASONS Part # 33494 Filter Drier
$18.92
Do yourself a giant favor and get new upper and lower condenser mounts while you are at it - new radiator mounts as well (4 pcs, upper and lower are the same on them - $1.35 ea at Rock - who used to have the upper cond. mounts but not the lower - now I can't find either there - probably a dealer item) Wherever you find them, they will be a hella lot cheaper than the replacement condenser you'll need soon if you don't renew them.
It is the cylinder at the top of the second picture in post #2 here: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-maybe-125216/
IIRC, Rock Auto has them for about $40.
_____________________________________________
Haha, IDRC, off by a factor of 2! $10-$20:
VISTA-PRO Part # 30494
Drier/Accumulator [Wholesaler Closeout - Private Label Pkg. - 30 Day Warranty] (Only 2 Remaining)$10.62ÜRO PARTS Part # MMD7410AA A/C Receiver Drier
R12 or R134a Compatible
$14.16GPD Part # 1411510 (Only 6 Remaining)
$15.94FOUR SEASONS Part # 33494 Filter Drier
$18.92
Do yourself a giant favor and get new upper and lower condenser mounts while you are at it - new radiator mounts as well (4 pcs, upper and lower are the same on them - $1.35 ea at Rock - who used to have the upper cond. mounts but not the lower - now I can't find either there - probably a dealer item) Wherever you find them, they will be a hella lot cheaper than the replacement condenser you'll need soon if you don't renew them.
Last edited by aholbro1; 08-30-2014 at 05:20 PM.
The following users liked this post:
MountainMan (09-02-2014)
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)