I decided to change my four o2 sensors. Two of them came out with no trouble at all, then came the rear two. I couldn't get them to budge so I went to a midas type place. The service manager said that he will charge me $150 to change the sensors. I questioned that price and he said $150 for the job. Two hours later he told me that his technician got one sensor out and the 2nd one broke off. Broke off!! Did I hear him right? I asked him what he needed to do to finish the repair. He said that he had to remove the drop pipe (I got him the gaskets) and then he would be able to remove the broken sensor. I paid him $150, waited for the gaskets to arrive and then I took the car back to him. As you can imagine they had a heck of a job getting those bolts off from the drop pipe, In the end it took them, according to the service manager, about 10 hours to do the job. The SM said that he would charge me for just 6 hours of additional labor. I said no, that he clearly said $150 to change the two o2 sensors. As this discussion as to what he wanted me to pay was going on his technician brought my car out to the from of the shop. I told the SM that I wasn't going to pay anymore and drove off with my car.
I'm curious to hear what you members think about what I did. My logic was that if I asked him to just replace the two easy sensors he still would have charged me $150 even though it would have taken only five minutes. Sometimes the shop makes out and other times they don't. He made a bad deal with me.
Jomo

 

Ya gotta put yourself in their shoes

O2 sensors can get stuck and require the extra work / time to remove

Sometimes not and the shop is already mad and hot at that point

Averages are one thing they are not thinking at the time , just how their skills and effort got you what you wanted

 

He sure did!

And you made sure that he'll never make that mistake again. If he had a lick of sense he would have quoted the job as "It'll be $150.00 unless the sensors are seized and break off. Then it will be a lot more".

So, lucky you, he wasn't experienced enough to quote the job that way. You got one helluva a bargain.....at his expense.

Quote:

My logic was that if I asked him to just replace the two easy sensors he still would have charged me $150 even though it would have taken only five minutes. Sometimes the shop makes out and other times they don't.

True enough, true enough.

But I think you know that logic isn't necessarily the solution to matters of fairness or ethics.

I think that you think that maybe, just maybe, the guy deserves something more. Otherwise you wouldn't be asking "Was I fair?".

Maybe not the full amount. But something. Some sort of compromise.

My question to you is "What will make you feel better tomorrow morning?'

Cheers
DD

 

Thing take longer than expected.
old cars, thing break.
it happens.

You can't expect them to work for free.

You took it there cus it was too hard for you.
Seems it was a really difficult job.
Sometimes **** happens.

You gotta play fair. Atleast work something out.

Imagine you are working, your boss tells you to do something that should take 2 hours, but then **** happens and it takes you 10 hours but then he refuses to pay you more than 2 hours.
you are not going to be happy and wanna quit.

I can assure you this shop has now blacklisted you and likely spreading your details around to all their mates in the trades to not deal with you.

Just always play nice and work something fair for everyone. Being a karen gets you nowhere good.

 

It is outrageous for that shop to ask you for six more hours of labor!! They were likely attempting a scam. You did well by not giving them any more money. Now if you "felt bad" and gave them one more hour of labor, their upward push of the price would still have worked, maybe helping you to feel better. But what's the point if he wanted six hours? Maybe he really just wanted one or two more hours of labor out of you.

How could that story possibly be true?? TEN hours of labor for 2 O2 sensors?? If it is somehow true, it shows they are totally incompetent at their trade. As an exhaust shop they would be very familiar with downpipes and O2 sensors, and the potential downfalls of working on old, likely rusty exhaust systems. This is complete nonsense.

The transmission shop that rebuilt my 4L80E put in a rebuilt torque converter that was botched and way out of balance. I respectfully insisted they replace the torque converter again. This was not their fault, it was apparently the fault of the third party rebuilder, but they accepted responsibility and re-did it without asking me to put up any more money. The shop should have verified the operation of the rebuilt torque converter before they installed it. It was their unfortunate mistake. They had to eat it this time.

And who gives a rat's *** about whether a shop will service your car again or if they tell their friends what happened. You don't want to deal with anyone in that circle anyway. I have no sympathy for shops that lie, stall, make excuses, do incompetent work or charge you more than agreed without advance notice and due diligence.

 

Just some food for thought. Shops never "eat the time"
all that happens is they quote higher forsmall jobs so a job that takes 30mins they often bill at 2 hours.
and/or the hourly rate charge goes up.

It's like how supermarkets inflate prices of goods to cover estimate amounts of theft.

i am not saying overpay bullshit but gotta work something out to be agreeable to all parties. 10hours does seem excessive without doubt. But old mate did take it there knowing they were seized on

wouldn't have to look hard to find a mechanic that would freely admit to taking hours just to undo one bolt on occasion.

 

Differing perspectives, obviously 😁

Nothing yet from JOMO

Cheers
DD

 

Its not like the shop asked for 10 or 20 percent more, sometimes a quote goes a little high. Thats not unreasonable and could be justified. But to ask for six hours, maybe $500-$600 more than you already paid? No. It is not your concern that it was a bear of a job, or the tech broke something, or it is his first week on the job.

My perspective might be a little harsh because of my poor experiences with repair shops on the few occasions I needed one. My problems were never about what I paid, but about careless mistakes. Likely the shop could have removed that O2 if they had followed the protocols for a seized or rusted nut. Also likely the tech went straight to gorilla on it and broke the bung off.

 

JOMO is not comfortable with how he concluded the deal or he wouldn’t ask us “Was I fair?”

Something seems to be making him uneasy.

But what?

He got two seized sensors replaced for a mere $150. He surely would’ve paid more anywhere else. Maybe he’s thinking that however bad the shop is they deserve something more.

If he rejoins the conversation maybe we’ll learn more

Cheers
DD

 

Yes, I did try to get the o2 sensors off by myself. I am 63 years old working with my car on ramps without the special tools that most mechanics have and saw very quickly that I wasn't going to be able to get the sensors off myself. I wouldn't have been surprised if the sensors came right off with the right encouragement from the repair shop. I honestly did not know that they were seized on.

 

I try to be fair and I know that the shop spent more time then they expected to as it took them two hours to get one sensor off and break the other sensor off.
I did question the service manager when he said $150 (one hour of labor) for the job. He repeated $150 for the entire job.
His technician broke off the sensor which I don't believe was done on purpose, but he did break it off. That is why I wanted to hear what others had to say about this. I had a hard time completely justifying why I should pay for more labor time because the technician did a poor job. And as Doug says, it does bother me somewhat about my not paying for additional labor time. I just was not clear on what to do. The tie breaker in my mind was that I had a verbal contract with the service manager regarding the total cost and I felt that at any time, if I decided to, I can go back and pay for additional time. In the end, paying for 7 hours (initial hour plus additional 6 hours) at $150/hr to have two o2 sensors replaced is not fair. Sure, **** happens but to go from $150 to $1050 is insane. I don't think that I will be giving the shop more money. I too don't believe that it took 10 hours to drop the down pipe, remove the broken sensor and put everything back together. Maybe 6 hours, which means they were not accepting any blame at all for their poor work on my car.
Jomo

 

Bit grey to me without knowing more details. Here in Australia a shop cannot do any work without your approval, but you asked for the sensors to be replaced and they did what was necessary to replace the sensors. If I was the mechanic in this situation, I think I'd have called you after your $150 worth of time was up and said "Hey these things have welded themselves in here, it could take ages, do you want us to keep going?" Alternatively if I was the customer and arrived to a $1050 bill when I'd been quoted $150, I may well have done what you did.

Just sounds like a miscommunication which, like most miscommunications, both parties are probably at least partially responsible for so both parties should negotiate to come to an amicable solution (which it sounds like the shop tried to do).

For future reference, my way of doing my best to avoid this is to make a point of saying "If you can't get it done within the quote, call me with a new quote and I'll assess it before you proceed" and most shops have responded with "Yep that's exactly how we do it." If they go over the quote without calling me, then I can remind them of what I said, politely tell them to stick the new price up their ****, and walk out on the bill without remorse.

If I'm being honest, I don't think that's your decision anymore.

This is 100% correct and it's refreshing to see someone who understands this. If a business needs to make a 10% profit and its expenses are $1mil over a year, then it needs to charge $1.1mil in that same year. You just increased their expenses by $1000 or so, all they will do is adjust their pricing to keep their margins the same whether it's tacking $1100 on the bill of the next poor bloke who walks through their door, adding 1% to all jobs over a month, or add 0.1% to all jobs next financial year. The customer always pays, where else does a business get most of its money from?

 

I can think of several things the shop did wrong in terms of how they conduct business.....not only in terms of customer relations/customer satisfaction but also in terms of protecting themselves.

And, truthfully, just hopping in your car and driving off with the issue unresolved doesn't sit that well with me.

As far as breaking the sensor, well, that can happen. Do some Googling and you'll see how common it is. I've broken a couple in my time despite my best efforts to avoid doing so. This might be described as "poor work". But, not all unfortunate things are the result of incompetence. **** happens. If you had gone to a different shop it is quite plausible that they may have broken the sensor as well. And, assuming it was a better-run shop, you would've ended up spending more money.

As you very correctly said in the very beginning the shop made a bad deal. You came out OK. They didn't. Maybe they learned a lesson.

It's all water under the bridge now!

Cheers
DD

 

I used to be a service advisor and asst service manager and do work at my home (very small business)

Driving off and/or taking without an agreed conclusion from both parties of what's owed, is illegal in some states.

**** does happen on older cars. Thats why some shops don't work on older cars.
The first mistake made - was the shop's fault, the shop should have talked to you and
gotten approval of additional work - before it happened.
He said, she said doesn't fair well anywhere. Always get it in writing first.

They must have your information (vin, tags, name, etc.), have they put a mechanic's lien against your car?
They can do that, sometime do - sometimes don't.
I know - I have put a lien against cars. 2 of which the customer took before paying.
I am OCD on paperwork, got my money (eventually) every time.

 

I am not saying if I knew my car was in front of the shop that I would have just driven off with it after dealing with the service manager and the new charges he quoted me. Here is exactly what happened when I came back to see if my car was ready.
I took my daughter's car with me with the understanding that if my car was ready that she would come back with me that evening to retrieve the car which was left behind. I suspect that when the service manager saw me walk into the shop that he asked one of his technicians to bring my car out front thinking that I was going to pay for the service and leave with my car. I did not (initially) know that this happened. The service manager informed me that the car was ready, that it took many more hours to be done than expected and that I owed him for (I think--it's been awhile now since this happened) 7 hours of labor. I had an appointment which I needed to keep, so after speaking (OK arguing) with the SM I told him that I needed to leave and will return tomorrow to talk some more. To my surprise, I saw my car in front of the shop and I drove off with it. I did return that evening, with my car and daughter, to retrieve her car.
I just didn't get to carefully think about what I was doing and just took my car. I did go back the next day with $150 in cash, retrieved my car keys and tried to talk with the SM. He wouldn't even accept the $150 which I left on his counter.
I am not sure if you, Doug-and others, felt that my story makes any difference. Even I don't know if it made any difference to me.