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Making myself nuts here.... going to order the new tensioner replace it, and loosen the sprockets to line up the cams...
Thats How im Reading it...
1st thing i did to this car was a compression and leak down test... everything checked out, i dont think theirs and valve damage.
So can you get the flats on 3 cams in the correct position with the crankshaft alignment plug in? i.e. three cams in the correct position and the driver-side exhaust cam not quite in the flat position. Indicating it is maybe 1/2 a link out of whack?
If this is true I think what I would do is set the timing as above, tie the secondary chain to the exhaust cam sprocket with a zip tie, to ensure it remains in its position, then slacken the driver-side exhaust cam bolt, remove the red plastic tensioner, and try to figure out WHY it wasn't replaced with a metal one when the other three were. There has to be a reason why someone failed to replace it?
Then fit a metal tensioner, rotate the exhaust cam to the flat position and attach the cam clamping tool, and assemble. But I'm still confused/suspicious why someone went to all the trouble of replacing the tensioners but not that one!
The hole in the timing cover for the crank seal does not have a "wall" for the seal to sit up to, it is a plain hole and you just fit the seal flush with the outside of the timing cover. I don't have my old seal and I can't remember if the seal had a tension spring......I don't think it did.
Yes that's the plan... as I read this is how you line the cams...
As to Why who knows.... ship happens and some of us do weird things... I'm no exception.
Just look what I did....
lives in the garage and in the house. . Talk about weird ship people do... ugh....
[QUOTE=Carnival Kid;2203655]So can you get the flats on 3 cams in the correct position with the crankshaft alignment plug in? i.e. three cams in the correct position and the driver-side exhaust cam not quite in the flat position. Indicating it is maybe 1/2 a link out of whack.
On the passenger side there both off about the same and in the same direction. On the driver side the exhaust cam is off a little more than the intake side ,that's the side with the broken tensioner.
On the passenger side there both off about the same and in the same direction. On the driver side the exhaust cam is off a little more than the intake side ,that's the side with the broken tensioner.
In that case there is something VERY wrong. I was thinking that maybe just that one cam was out of whack due to the same reason the tensioner wasn't replaced (whatever that reason is), but if you are not getting basically any of the cams to lie flat there is something wrong.
Because the cams turns at half crankshaft speed there will be two positions when the crank positioning slot is in the "correct" position, but of course only one of those will be correct, and of course the cam timing flats will not be in the "fully up" at the "incorrect" crank position, but should be in the correct position after a further 360 degree rotation of the crankshaft.
I'm confused how your car ran if the valve timing is not correct, and if it did was it running rough? I've read that these cars can run rough if the chain jumps a link, but valves will hit if the chain jumps two links. Because these engines don't have keyed camshafts (why oh why oh why!) then the timing can be off by pretty much any increment if assembled that way, and the "odd" tensioner points to serious suspicion of the person who worked on it last.
And I'm confused why that plastic tensioner wasn't replaced.
Send a private message to forum member Motorcarman, he is expert in these matters and may be able to shed some light.
Hmm, could be, but if one cam is off I would think either a valve would hit a piston, or at the very least it would run like crap.
Wow, this thread really took off ... hard to catch up ... nice work!
For info, we had a S/C here of a friend, the driver side CAM timing was almost 1 tooth off.
It ran and idled surprisingly well, actually so well that it completely confused us.
Only found the problem when we opened things up.
It had a great lack of power though, ran like a N/A.
Wow, this thread really took off ... hard to catch up ... nice work!
For info, we had a S/C here of a friend, the driver side CAM timing was almost 1 tooth off.
It ran and idled surprisingly well, actually so well that it completely confused us.
Only found the problem when we opened things up.
It had a great lack of power though, ran like a N/A.
Yes, I'm beginning to think that MrJ needs to get the crank in the correct position, with the cam flats in an obvious "almost correct" position, and then replace the errant tensioner, and then loosen all 4 cam bolts and install the cam timing bars and tighten everything up.
Not sure what went on during the attempt by the previous wrencher, but it obviously wasn't done correctly.
Hi Eric. CK
Had to to run out, horse emergency....
Thats my Plan... I had kind of the same problem with Ford 5.4 3 valve when the phaser ate itself...
(Yes, I'm beginning to think that MrJ needs to get the crank in the correct position, with the cam flats in an obvious "almost correct" position, and then replace the errant tensioner, and then loosen all 4 cam bolts and install the cam timing bars and tighten everything up.)
I just didn't want to screw it up anymore than it is.... But i think im over that fear now..lol Had enough ill get the tensioner, seals and have at it.....
Good morning Guys
I was looking at ordering the upper tensioners- some sites list them as left or right others don't....
Dose anyone if they are Left or Right and same with the Lower ones?
Ill try and get a picture of the lower right side ,maybe someone can tell me if that looks right...
Good morning Guys
I was looking at ordering the upper tensioners- some sites list them as left or right others don't....
Dose anyone if they are Left or Right and same with the Lower ones?
Ill try and get a picture of the lower right side ,maybe someone can tell me if that looks right...
Thanks
MrJ, the two secondary tensioners are different (L&R), as one operates "upside-down" compared to the other they are completely different (see pic)
The primary tensioners are I believe identical and interchangable. (but of course you do not need to replace yours)
I found my old crank/timing cover seal, it does not have a a pressure spring, so don't be concerned that you cannot find yours.
Thanks CK
Just wondering ... like i said some sites list them as left and right others don't the ones that do want 20$ more for the drivers side...
When i looked at the lower ones i can see there is a tab,ear... whatever you wanna call it
One seems to fit just rite the other that tab/ear has no support... Not sure if thats right...
Just want to make sure im not making the same mistake someone else did before me.... passenger side.. see how its supported or fits nicely . driver side... that's the tab,ear im talking about... Nothing under it....
I do know that the primary tensioners both have tabs, but I don't remember if one had a support behind it, and the other not. With the plastic tensioners there were kidney shaped plates behind the tensioners, and these are discarded with the replacement metal type (along with shorter bolts)
Here are pics of my primary tensioners when I did mine, and the only comment I can make is notice how little "wear" there is on mine (understandably because they are brand new and unused when these pics were taken), whereas yours have the pistons quite extended. So I'm wondering how long your metal tensioners have been in there, and secondly if the chains were replaced at the time. and thirdly....................I wonder if you should just spring for the Christopher kit and replace everything now that you are here, it would sure give peace of mind.
Here are pics of my primary tensioners when I did mine, and the only comment I can make is notice how little "wear" there is on mine (understandably because they are brand new and unused when these pics were taken), whereas yours have the pistons quite extended. So I'm wondering how long your metal tensioners have been in there, and secondly if the chains were replaced at the time. and thirdly....................I wonder if you should just spring for the Christopher kit and replace everything now that you are here, it would sure give peace of mind.
Look at yours and look at what i have the guides are different looks like your guides are 2 part or aluminum,behind the plastic??
I think your right about ordering the Whole Kit and be done with this D@#king around guessing...
It's already Wasted so more of everyones time...
Look at yours and look at what i have the guides are different looks like your guides are 2 part or aluminum,behind the plastic??
Yes, aluminum base with plastic runner area. I guess there are different manufacturers, and each will be a slightly different design/quality. Mine are from Christophers and they looked to be good quality and have a good reputation.
Originally Posted by Mrjay622
I think your right about ordering the Whole Kit and be done with this D@#king around guessing...
It's already Wasted so more of everyones time...
No waste of time, all a good learning experience, and yes I think you would gain a much greater peace of mind by installing the complete Christopher Kit.
You're right and you were right from the beginningI should have have just ordered it.
just didn't want invest a butt load of money into something I really don't want or need.
Stay with CK's suggestion of the whole kit. You have to be careful because some of these Chinese ones (not all), try to sell the Lincoln LS kits for the Jags and they have shorter primary guides.
03-13-2020, 04:08 PM
