Hello being a newbie here i am not quite sure how things work, but I am hoping someone may be able to help me with my problem.

I will firstly apologise for maybe making this more long winded then it should be, but mechanically minded I am not.
I have had my xj8 now for about 7 months with no problems apart from having to change the windscreen wiper motor as it had the not parking properly fault, it is a low mileage vehicle (76,000) with almost full history and much money spent.

It has always started first turn of the key very powerful and quiet and pulls well.

I will say the only minor concern I have had with it is from cold start up it would have a very slight knock from the front of the engine but literally only last for seconds, so up to now hasnt been a major concern.

Up until last thursday i can honestly say i have driven the car everyday since i have owned it maybe not far each time but it was started everyday, last thursday was the exception i hadnt driven it for two days, the first turn of the key i knew there was something wrong even though it started the engine rumbled for a few seconds then stopped, it would not start after at all, but strangely it sounded like a faulty starter motor.

It was like making a wirring sound rather then a proper starting sound (if that makes sense) after reading lots of information on the net over the last few days about problems with the 1998 xj8's timing chain and tensioners I think I had convinced myself that the chain had snapped or tensioners broken, but a friend who has a slight knowledge of engines is convinced that isnt the problem as he got me to crank the engine and all the pullies are turning as they should and he pulled the oil filler cap off and see the shaft turning.

He seems to think it maybe an electrical issue. I will add at this point I have a reciept from 2008 saying the car had new chains and tensioners fitted but the receipt doesnt say if it was the new aluminium tensioners fitted or the original plastic ones, the car has only covered about 26000 miles since the chains and tensioners were fitted.

I have a guy coming round tuesday to look at it I think he will be doing some diagnostic checks on it as the check engine has been on since the problem started.

Again I apologise for the long winded story but felt I had to try and explain everything as it happened in the best way I could, Im not sure what this guy is going to tell me tuesday but I thought I would put my concerns on here first hoping someone maybe able to shed some light on what the problem maybe, lastly will I be doing any more harm to the car by cranking the engine while it is like it is at the moment?

Thanks very much in advance

 

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When you try to start the engine have someone observe the pulleys and belts. If they are turning and the engine is spinning freely, you are almost certainly suffering cylinder wash, the one curse of the nikasil liner engine. The cure is to reove the plugs and squirt some oil in the cylinders, replace plugs, etc., and crank while keeping pedal to the floor, which shuts fuel off and lubricates cylinders. It should then start with a cloud of smoke.

 

I forgot to send you this:

JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource

 

Thanks for your reply when you say inject oil into the plug sockets what sort of oil do you mean? engine oil and what is this nikasil engine you are talking about? is it a problematic engine and something to be aware of?
thanks for your reply and information supplied

 

There is no point in me trying to give a full history of nikasil, just do a search. The consensus is that if you have a nikasil engine and it has good compression, it will probably outlast a conventional engine.
However, you have to allow it to warm up before shutting it off. The starting mixture is rich, and if you shut it of cold there is enough fuel in the cylinders to wash the oil away, resulting in very low compression. That also applies to cranking the engine and not being able to start due to no spark.
I have not had to do this yet, but it has been mentioned by others that up to 1 oz. of engine oil added to the cylinders on one side should be enough to get it running, if you have a washdown problem

 

Just spent the the last few hours removing the plugs and adding some oil into the tubes as suggested I may have well been a bit over zealous with the oil, i found it difficult to add just a few drops, but hopefully i didnt overdo it. Tried starting it with throttle to floor as suggested it made quite a loud banging noise initially and a couple of times it fired but it just wouldnt start tried continuously for a good five minutes but unfortunately it wouldnt start check engine light is still on dont know what to do next, got a guy coming round tuesday to have a look and hopefully do some diagnostic checks on it.

 

It sounds like time for a code reader. If you don't have one, that should be high on your buy list. It doesn't have to be expensive.
I hope you didn't keep the throttle wide open all the time you were trying to start. Remember, that shuts the fuel off. Once you've turned it over a few times you should try to start with foot off the pedal. If you used too much oil you might have fouled the plugs.

 

I did keep the throttle down all the time rj i read a post where it stated keep throttle down until it starts, what would be the consequences of too much oil rj? would i have to take plugs out again and dry them or better still what about new plugs would that be better? Have you any ideas on what code reader to get? I know they sell relatively cheap ones on ebay but i would not know what type to get. Where is the port to plug the reader in?

 

If you keep your foot down you get NO fuel. That was only to lube cylinder walls. Then try to start without touching pedal. If that doesn't work, time for diagnostics.
If you look near the top of the forum page you will find a search function. You can find all kinds of info there, such as:

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/g...oved-**-33347/

 

I haven't experienced the cylinder wash yet, but this is what I would do.

I would remove ALL plugs. Inject few drops of the clean motor oil in each cylinder. Leaving the plugs out, I would put the throttle to the floor, and crank the engine for few seconds (to distribute the oil over the cylinder walls), without any fuel delivery.

Reinsert the plus, and start normaly. If it's a cylinder wash situation, the engine WILL start. However,......AFAIK cylinder wash does not produce ANY codes. In the OP's case, I suspect there is something else at play. The scanner will tell.

 

Yes, there is obviously another problem. My concern was that he experienced cylinder wash when the car ran poorly for a few seconds and then died. The observation that the starter spun at high speed as if not connected to engine is what made me suspect cylinder wash as a second problem.

 

I've had cylinder wash 3 times, and what works is to hold the pedal al the way down, then slowly lift it up while cranking until you hit a point where the engine fires. I usually have to play a lot with the pedal. Also, use jumper cables and get lots of power for that starter, it will help.
DO NOT let go off the key until it is running completely! In other words just because it pops and farts, don't let go. Keep her cranking until it can run on it's own.

 

A code reader for these cars is very useful-even a cheap & cheerful one. I paid £18 for an Autel Maxiscan MS300-it's very basic but it does the job for the Powertain P codes, which can then be cross-referred to the Jag P code tables online.

The fuelling system on these cars is designed to allow a flooded engine to be cleared of excess petrol-the official Jaguar AJV8 technical description states that fuelling is shut-off during engine cranking if the throttle is held wide open, to allow petrol vapour to dissipate.

If you continue to hold the throttle wide-open whilst cranking, then it will never start as the fuel injectors will be switched off by the ECU. The procedure to clear the flooded engine is to crank the engine with a wide-open throttle for several seconds, then to release the throttle so the ECU will switch on the fuel injectors again whilst cranking the engine.

If the engine is heavily flooded, then a longer period of cranking on a wide-open throttle will be needed & the battery needs to be fully charged.

 

I hope you didn't fill the combustion chamber(s) - not good for the engine.
When you get the OBD codes please post the actual code, not the interpretation.

I've added some line breaks to your initial post so we can read it without getting dizzy !

 

Hello Red
I looked at the Autel Maxiscan MS300 online this afternoon according to the write up it works for cars from 96 in the us and uk from 2001. Mine is a 98 model would it work with mine? and have you any idea where the port for the reader is on my model?
Thanks

 

It was a mandatory requirement in the US for cars to be fitted with OBDII diagnostic ports from 1996, and in Europe from 2001-certainly from 1996 cars would be using the OBDII code anyway.

If your 1998 model has the 16 pin 'D' shaped socket, and I'm pretty certain it has, then you can use this scanner. It's easy to check for the socket-on RHD UK cars, it's under the facia just above where your left knee would sit when driving!

Just shine a torch up into the driver's footwell near the transmission tunnel where your left knee would normally be-you should see a black 16 pin 'D' shaped socket with nothing connected to it-this is where your scanner plugs in.

It should be there as it's listed on the 1998 model circuit diagrams for all models, both US & UK.

 

Had two guys come round to look at the jag today, I explained to them what had happened since the non start last week. They seemed a bit mystified when i told them I had removed the plugs and put some oil in the chambers.
They started by connecting the fault reader and informed me it was showing no faults, I told them the check engine light was on, I felt a bit foolish when they reminded the check engine light doesnt go out until the engine starts. They tried several times to start it and it actually come close a couple of times but just wouldnt catch.
One guy was pulling fuses in the boot while the other was trying to start it, he explained they were fuel pump fuses as there was a strong smell of fuel from when they first turned it over, which they seemed alarmed by. They then took all the plugs out checked and cleaned them, replaced them and tried starting it again, by this time they had hooked another battery to it as mine was running low.

Several attempts later with no success, One of them suggested to me it might be best to pull the plugs out leave them out for a couple of days and replace with new plugs. As he thought there maybe was lots of excess fuel in the chambers, so they were almost on the verge of leaving, by this time they had been there just over an hour,one guy made what im sure would have been a final attempt to start it, and low and behold it fired up.

It filled my small neighbourhood with smoke and fumes in no time at all, but after it had warmed up several minutes later it started to clear,they concluded by just saying they thought it had flooded they had similar problems with a 7 series BMW a couple of weeks ago. I have since taken it for a long run and it seems fine, they do suggest i get new plugs and air filter etc which I plan to do over the next few days the guys charged me £60 I give them £70 as I was just pleased to see it running again.

 

I'm gonna go with:

1. cylinder wash
2. a little too much oil in the cylinder (not a problem, but will prevent full firing)
3. oil got around the rings and burned off enough from the plugs firing
4. engine starts

I experienced the exact same scenario, including almost giving up then having it fire up.

Keep in mind not to start then stop then start again shortly after in the future and let it warm up before turning off and you will be fine- my XJ8 has not had an episode since by following the warm up rule. Hey- I like that, let's call it THE WARM UP RULE

 

Hi dsnyder
To be fair I dont think I have ever started then stopped it, last week when the problem started I started it, although it started it rumbled only for a matter of seconds then stopped. It just would not start after that, I am now far more clued up after getting advice from you guys on here which I appreciate, but to be honest I dont think this car is right for me, I do very little mileage in it, my trips to work are short which i know doesnt help.
I think I might just sell it on and buy something more suited to my needs, I will be sad to see it go as its a lovely car and excellent condition for its age. I want to thank all you guys for the first class advice you have given me.

 

I am glad your probem as been resolved. As far as "a different car,that will better suit your needs".....you are obviously not in love! No problem at all. Most of us here, don't "need" our cats,....we just want them! We want them so much, that we put up with all the finicky behavior, and spend a great amount of time and money to keep them running.

Nobody I talk to ever said that they "need" a Jaguar for transportation (there are hundreds of makes out there that will have better fuel mileage, and the repair record!). Jaguar is a PLEASURE, not a transportation need.

Good luck to you (and I can bet my paycheck, you will be back to Jags some day!). I sold my XJS in 2006, but I never forgot "the feel". I curently own BMW X5, Benz S430, GMC Sierra 2500, and a Hummer H1 (beside the VDP). Truck for pulling my horses, and the ranch work, Hummer for hunting, S430 for the wife, X5 for traveling with my two GSDs, and a Husky,.....and VDP for PLEASURE. Do I "need" it?