XJ XJ8 / XJR ( X308 ) 1997 - 2003

The 1998 XJR 4.0 to 4.2 engine swap thread !!!:)

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #21  
Old 09-24-2011, 04:17 PM
adam699's Avatar
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 824
Received 84 Likes on 71 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Count Iblis
I read what you posted about the AJ26 vs the AJ33 and it suprised me. I dont recall which flows better. It LOOKS like the older one does- perhaps the AJ33 was more package constrained. I DO seem to remember the later 5th gen M112 being an upgrade and a tad more efficienct than the earlier one.
I DO have rubber mouldings of the AJ37 ports and the AJ27 ones, but Ive moved so many times in the last few years I'm still trying to find them. I think theyre in the bottom of a box unfortunately, ill find them one of these days.
I would certainly knife edge the port splitter and smoothen the short side radius.

I started thinking about what you said about loosing velocity and now I'm thinking weather I should touch the runners or not.

I really wanted to get rid of the divider as it looked restrictive and seemed to block the runner.




Now that I took it out and knife edged it. it no longer directly obstructs the runner. I'm starting to think that if I port match the runner to the head without opening it all the way up to the blower I'll be loosing velocity? Right? Should I leave it alone?
 
  #22  
Old 09-24-2011, 06:24 PM
Count Iblis's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: 'Out West', USA
Posts: 660
Received 293 Likes on 163 Posts
Default

The ONLY reason the splitter/divider is there is because on the end there was supposed to be that flap that blocked off one side of the ports. Thats why it's so obstructive.
The flaps were dropped and the dividers stayed as a bad hangover from a stinking deal.

For port velocities, you need to directly measure where you are- theres an old equation that relates engine capacity, engine speed and port local cross sectional area to local velocity. An easy way for you would be to measure the volume of the port itself with fluid- you know the length- it's between 100- 120mm so the local cross sectional area is easy to find from this. This is painstaking but is what differentiates an engineered approach from a mechanics approach.
 
  #23  
Old 09-25-2011, 12:54 PM
adam699's Avatar
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 824
Received 84 Likes on 71 Posts
Default

I decided to step it up a bit



 
  #24  
Old 09-25-2011, 01:09 PM
avos's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,616
Received 1,067 Likes on 761 Posts
Default

A Knife edge isn’t automatically better than a more rounded edge…
Would wait until you have had a chance to speak to Count Iblis...

Flow dynamics is something on its own, not easy or something to take uneducated guesses on, and as far as I understand it, it was his area of profession.


My biggest mistakes where done when I didn’t give a thorough thought/enough time to perform a certain task.
 
  #25  
Old 09-25-2011, 01:11 PM
adam699's Avatar
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 824
Received 84 Likes on 71 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by avos
A Knife edge isn’t automatically better than a more rounded edge…
Would wait until you have had a chance to speak to Count Iblis...

Flow dynamics is something on its own, not easy or something to take uneducated guesses on, and as far as I understand it, it was his area of profession.


My biggest mistakes where done when I didn’t give a thorough thought/enough time to perform a certain task.

He did say he would knife edge the divider in one of the above posts.
 
  #26  
Old 09-25-2011, 01:18 PM
avos's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,616
Received 1,067 Likes on 761 Posts
Default

Was just a heads up, nothing more.
 
  #27  
Old 09-25-2011, 01:46 PM
adam699's Avatar
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 824
Received 84 Likes on 71 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by avos
Was just a heads up, nothing more.

Gotcha Thanks for looking out.

I figured no matter how I screw it up, anything is better than that big *** divider. I'm also using the AJ26 heads as a rough guide.
 
  #28  
Old 09-25-2011, 02:08 PM
plums's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: on-the-edge
Posts: 9,733
Received 2,181 Likes on 1,621 Posts
Default

One school of thought in porting is to open up the far end at each successive transition but not the near end. This aids in promoting anti-reversion.

For example, at the intake runner to head transition, hog out the intake port, but only do minor adjustments and polishing at the intake runner. The resulting lip helps keep the air charge from going back up the runner.

This has been seen to work better than a full port match ... and is less work

YMMV greatly, because this is based on experience with carbureted, naturally aspirated engines. But ... it's still air flowing through those passages.
 
  #29  
Old 09-25-2011, 04:48 PM
adam699's Avatar
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 824
Received 84 Likes on 71 Posts
  #30  
Old 09-25-2011, 07:00 PM
adam699's Avatar
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 824
Received 84 Likes on 71 Posts
  #31  
Old 09-25-2011, 11:14 PM
adam699's Avatar
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 824
Received 84 Likes on 71 Posts
Default

One side is done. Here are the before and after shots. I'll touch up the heads to match perfectly too before assembly. I'm thinking about making my own gaskets also.







They were all done with 3/4 sanding drums. The drum goes under the injector easement.
Be careful in that spot thou and try to get the opposite side as even as possible before tackling that as the wall gets real thin over there.

BTW this one side took up my whole Sunday. Now I'm thinking about the TB, Elbow, Inter-coolers and SC.. I need to stop this madness.

What do you guys think?
 

Last edited by adam699; 09-25-2011 at 11:25 PM.
  #32  
Old 09-26-2011, 01:26 AM
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 404
Received 70 Likes on 49 Posts
Default

I think do it cus once its together if you dont you'll be thinkin wonder how much better it coulda been if you had.
 
  #33  
Old 09-26-2011, 02:41 AM
avos's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,616
Received 1,067 Likes on 761 Posts
Default

There’s no stopping Adam anyhow as far as I can see


Adam, not sure what can be done in the intercoolers that could matter, but the intake elbow iirc does have some spots that could be improved.


Wouldn't do porting on the SC, chances are it will only make it louder, and you will not gain (but IU guess this is another incentive to start the work right )

Maybe mating the 4.2 blower to the 4.0 intake would be good if you go that route.


There is something good to be done about the TB, as I am sure you can bore that one out to 79mm (from stock 75mm), make a new blade and done.
 
The following users liked this post:
Panthro (04-04-2012)
  #34  
Old 09-26-2011, 02:51 AM
adam699's Avatar
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 824
Received 84 Likes on 71 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by avos
There’s no stopping Adam anyhow as far as I can see


Adam, not sure what can be done in the intercoolers that could matter, but the intake elbow iirc does have some spots that could be improved.


Wouldn't do porting on the SC, chances are it will only make it louder, and you will not gain (but IU guess this is another incentive to start the work right )

Maybe mating the 4.2 blower to the 4.0 intake would be good if you go that route.


There is something good to be done about the TB, as I am sure you can bore that one out to 79mm (from stock 75mm), make a new blade and done.
I think I'll just do the elbow, custom gaskets and fit the newer SC. I've been thinking about opening up the inlet to the elbow size on the SC.

Now I really need sleep
 
  #35  
Old 09-26-2011, 05:08 AM
avos's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,616
Received 1,067 Likes on 761 Posts
Default

By doing the TB as described, you increase the area for airflow by almost 12% (this becomes almost 15% when going to 80). Once you are planning to move more air than stock, this part of the full intake will become a bottleneck (amongst others).

The more vacuum you have before the SC, the more power this will consume from the engine (and of course hinders more airflow, so double penalty).

Of course this is a mod that can be done later, here is just 1 company in the US that does this, (I’ll bet there are much more):
http://www.maxbore.com/index.html
 
The following 2 users liked this post by avos:
adam699 (09-26-2011), Panthro (04-04-2012)
  #36  
Old 09-26-2011, 03:03 PM
adam699's Avatar
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 824
Received 84 Likes on 71 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by avos
By doing the TB as described, you increase the area for airflow by almost 12% (this becomes almost 15% when going to 80). Once you are planning to move more air than stock, this part of the full intake will become a bottleneck (amongst others).

The more vacuum you have before the SC, the more power this will consume from the engine (and of course hinders more airflow, so double penalty).

Of course this is a mod that can be done later, here is just 1 company in the US that does this, (I’ll bet there are much more):
http://www.maxbore.com/index.html

Good Link! I'll look into it down the line. At this point I want to do things that are hard to get to once the engine is in the car and I need to get this thing running. Any idea how I can disable/ bypass the downstream o2 sensors to run cat-less?
 
  #37  
Old 09-28-2011, 10:30 PM
Count Iblis's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: 'Out West', USA
Posts: 660
Received 293 Likes on 163 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by plums
One school of thought in porting is to open up the far end at each successive transition but not the near end. This aids in promoting anti-reversion.

For example, at the intake runner to head transition, hog out the intake port, but only do minor adjustments and polishing at the intake runner. The resulting lip helps keep the air charge from going back up the runner.

This has been seen to work better than a full port match ... and is less work

YMMV greatly, because this is based on experience with carbureted, naturally aspirated engines. But ... it's still air flowing through those passages.
Did you get that from Smokey Yunicks hot rod book or David Vizard?

When advocating a lip you're bascially reccomending is an area ratio expansion although not dissimilar to vena contracta. This will simply impose a further flow loss proportional to the inlet manifold to inlet port area ratio.
 
  #38  
Old 09-29-2011, 01:31 AM
adam699's Avatar
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 824
Received 84 Likes on 71 Posts
Default

OK, so I had to take a break from the Jag past two days. Anniversary with my GF and a fuel pump on a Nissan Quest (300,000miles) were more important.

Here's today's work.






I'm ready to start swapping accessories and the lower sump.
 
  #39  
Old 09-29-2011, 01:36 AM
adam699's Avatar
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 824
Received 84 Likes on 71 Posts
Default

I tried digging some info on the knock sensors but it looks like the earlier are made only for Jaguar...
 
  #40  
Old 09-30-2011, 10:48 PM
adam699's Avatar
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 824
Received 84 Likes on 71 Posts
Default



OK, so my humble goal is to have it started by the end of day Sunday....however...


Today I started swapping the oil pan and sump and some of the accessories. I'm going to try to retain the 4.2 front cover, ballancer/pulley as it is bigger than the 4.0 one= more boost plus it's newer with less miles and I've learned how important balancers are, especially on boosted cars. The bottom pulley upgrades are $500 so it's worth the trouble on my low budget project. (anyone know the size of the upper pulley? would a Cobra pulley work?)


Anyway, I've run into the first hickup:



So the 4.0 bracket for the power steering and the ac is blocked by the front cover provisions for the 4.2 brackets. The block has all the necessary openings so it's just a matter of cutting off a part of the front cover to make this fit.
 


Quick Reply: The 1998 XJR 4.0 to 4.2 engine swap thread !!!:)



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:35 PM.