This morning I was asked to help a friend here in Taiwan.
One of his cars is a rather perfect 1999 Daimler S/C, but he is facing several problems which local shops can't help him with due to lack of experience / lack of interest.

I only shortly saw the car this morning, had a quick spin around in an underground parking garage, had Torque connected, and had a good listen with a stethoscope.

Results and problems as follows:
- Engine runs smooth, coolant normal, OBD parameters pretty good, including fuel trims etc.
- S/C has a rumble, maybe bearing (?), location at the front of the S/C housing (as far as I can determine),
- Car lacks power, I should say it runs like my N/A,
- The throttle only goes to 72% during acceleration and kick-down,
- I don't hear any S/C pronounced wine, at least not during acceleration as far as possible in an empty parking garage ),
- I initially thought 2nd fuel pump or fuel supply, but after riding, I doubt,

I saw some posts on the bearings and rebuilding, that might not be a big deal.
However, the lack of noise and power troubles me.
I will adjust the throttle for him in 3 weeks, after my next medical check on my shoulder, but even so, I do not really see the relation to the lack of power, let alone the lack of whine yet.

As I know that some of you know way more on the Supercharges than I do, can anyone give some thoughts / insights /etc?

Appreciated!

Eric

 

sounds like the snout drive coupler has has broken or damaged
quite common for the plastic ones to become loud , the parts are cheep ,the stock plastic coupler's are getting old and brittle . there is also an up graded nylon gel coupler but not the easiest thing to to replace . the blower needs to be raised to acsess .
but it still should make boost . you really need full throttle for the full whine.

 

you can remove the belt and rock the pulley back and forth with your hand to check for back lash.

 

It sounds like a throttle reset will help, get it as near 99% as you can. Then see how it behaves/sounds. You should hear the Eaton at higher revs for sure...

As data states it could be the coupler, the original is spring loaded, the replacements aren't. If it's rumbling when does it sound pronounced? coming off throttle? Worn couplers/snout bearings exhibit the odd sounds coming off the gas generally.

The belt off backlash check - you'll see if there's play as soon as you rock the snout pulley back and forth, you can feel the play before it turns the rotor pack.

What's the car's mileage? if the SC is noisy it'll be over 100K.
And yes the SC will need to come off the car for service.

 

You see, what does a N/A driver knows about Superchargers ....
That could be well the position where I think I heard most of the rumble.
I have something to google and upgrade my knowledge, thanks!

Will do that if I have the car in some weeks, sounds logical.

I only heard it (very pronounced) while at idle.
However, doing some driving in a closed, resonating B2 parking garage is not the best of environments to hear for strange noises, and that concrete wall at the end plus slippery concrete floors ... well you know ....
It might very well be there in the conditions you mention.
The car has done ~120.000km.

 

Do these couples just crack, or do they kind of 'disintegrate'?

And what if they disintegrate, is there still a metal to metal connection to the S/C, or does it kills it workings?

 

If it does disintegrate which is unusual the two drive dogs will still contact , but with massive backlash .
Mostly the spring wears in to the drive shaft and creates slack/backlash between
The Spring and the shaft metal to metal .
Some do crack and/or desidergrate ,
Mine broke the spring in half and wore the shaft , but the nylon version doesn't need the metal replaced on the shaft as it has no spring thankfully , God send .

 

Does it sound like this coffee grinder?

More info...
How to replace an Eaton Supercharger Coupler : SuperchargersOnline, Worlds largest Supercharger Resource. Get Serious About Power

 

Guys, you are both fantastic, it is a whole lot better to Google if you know what you are looking for, which I did the last hour...plenty of threads actually...

On the youtube video, it did not sound as bad, maybe good for the owner
Knowing now how things are fitted, I would guess it is a bearing.
Good to know that replacements for bearings and coupler are available.

I am still a bit baffled by the lack of power, but guess can only take it one step at the time, maybe the throttle adjustment will do the trick, got to wait for that.

By the way, I read on several occasions that going over the Jaguar advised 90% throttle setting (at touching the stop, not kicking-down) will start to mess up things as well. Comments on that one?

 

There is the chance of 'restricted performance' if the throttle cable reaches 100% on a tight cable. The way I've found works is to set it via OBD, getting it as close as possible so repeat the square threaded stop adjustment incrementally, one turn and check etc until it's into the 90% range, if you can get it to 95% + you should get the R kick up the pants.
It's also good practice to carry out a hard reset so the Engine ECU sets up the throttle calibration on initial startup, let the high idle decay to almost stall point then settles, leave it to idle for 10 minutes to store the new throttle values, then job done.

 

Ok, that's clear, adjust till the 'restricted performance' shows up, then one turn back .

On the procedure, I do not completely agree with you.
On my car, I followed a bit different, but imo more logical way, which is also the one I used for all my motorbikes, and is also the one deeply hidden in the Jaguar shop manual.

With a cold engine, first you take up the slack in the engine bay (the square nut you mentioned).
You tight it up till you see the OBD2 starts to change, then you turn the nut 1/4 back.
This allows the TB (and therefore the TB sensor) to rest at its 'zero' position (important for the ECU calibration, as I don't think our Jaguars have a floating 'zero').

Note: I call it 'zero' although technically it is not zero but a certain voltage.

If that is done, for our cars you will need to dive into the driver's foot well.
Check the OBD2 reading while you push the accelerator pedal against the stop (which is a real stop in ~1998 vacuum operated cars, and the kick-down switch for the rest of years).
IF the OBD2 reads ~90% at full push, you should be good.

If not, for vacuum operated cars you can simply turn the stop left or right to (de)crease the opening on your reading.
For other years, you can't do that, as it will destroy the wiring from the switch.
Solution is to peel back the carpet, follow the wires and find the connector, disconnect the wire, make some turns, re-connect, and re-check the reading until you got the correct one.

In your way of doing, it might work if your accelerator pedal stop is deep enough, but if not, you will never get to your 90 or 95%, simple because your cable travel is not enough.

 

Ah, I've just learnt something Eric! I talk of AJ27 throttle setup, is your friend's car a 26 or 27?

 

Sean, never thought I could teach you something .

I was talking about my own car 1998 AJ26 N/A, my friend's car is also a AJ26 (S/C).

I think the whole 'vacuum' difference I mentioned is actually the difference between a AJ26 and a AJ27, but I am not sure, so I do not dare to write that down that way.

Anyway, the procedures depends on the type of TB sensor, and how the ECU reads it.

1. If the sensor is a traditional type (with let say 90 degee turn, and a MIN and MAX), you NEED to have the sensor at a certain position while your TB valve rests at its stop.
We normally measured the voltage through the sensor, and adjusted it for the correct advised voltage value (sliding the sensor in its elongated holes).
Again, the correct position gives the ECU the 'base' for its fuel maps (and base wrong --> all maps wrong as you know).

I am sure the above is the case for every AJ26 engine, and confirmed by several ppl. who replaced their throttle bodies, and had to adjust their sensors to get a sensible idle (Grandell was one of them if memory serves well).

2. If the sensor is of a unlimited type (will turn endless, like your radio volume), the ECU reads the difference in voltage, not the actual voltage.
It means there is no pre-set position for the sensor, but is normally created by using external software, and do a TBS reset procedure (basically a push of the button to create the 'zero' in the range).

I am not sure if the AJ27 has the unlimited sensor, just never seen or checked.
Generally speaking, motorbikes had the limited sensors till ~2000, and the unlimited ones after that, so it could be possible.

However, even if they have them, I doubt the ECU will be capable of setting its reference point without outside action.

I think, but I only speculate here, that what you call the 're-learning' is actually the ECU setting other parameters for smooth running, not the actual TB sensor.

But again, I am only speculating for the last part, I simple have never checked it yet.

 

You would need to play with an AJ27 throttle body - a true fly by wire.
They have 2 sensors, tps and tpps, Grandell set his TPS up because it was all the way over from being replaced and not set correctly - giving the car a very high idle, it had to be set manually with the car running and backed off, which is dicey if you don't know what you're doing - as you mention it can be roughly set with voltage, then fine tuned while running. The sensors use a security bit bolt head for obvious reasons, supposed to be tamper proof. I've replaced a number of these TPS now and it'll only get worse as these things fail with P1121/1122. The factory marks are 2 blobs of white paint.

The AJ27 TB has control from ignition on, you can hear it whining and clicking, it's rest position is something like 5% with a very small opening in the throttle plate. It finds this on key pos II.

I don't mention relearning, rather the base TB program is loaded, not the compromised version held in memory.
This is a completely different program from the engine ECU tune, the throttle has it's own Map, I run an experimental calibration file from Jaguar, it's code is VBBX.

But as it's a 26 unit stick to what you know on setup and it should be fine.

 

That sounds super interesting - my friend got 7(!) S/C's, covering each year, so I guess I know the next one I want to touch .
But will first concentrate on the 1999, thanks for all advice, will get back in some weeks.

 

Reviving this thread, I picked up the car yesterday, gave it a good wash, let it cool down overnight, and started to do some checking this morning.

In general, the car seems to be in a good condition, came from Japan,120.000km, and seems to be serviced professionally.
No tape on the wires, no missing washers, no leaks, rather clean besides dust. all as it should be.

I cleaned the MAF, cleaned the TB (actually clean), checked the partial and full load breather (no obstruction), checked the air-intake (no oil inside).

I also set the accelerator cable at the TB, and adjusted the kickdown switch.
I get some 85% valve-open if I touch the switch, some 95% if I push the switch down (as in a kick-down).

Running the OBD2 reader: no special issues. I notice a small imbalance in the LTFT between L and R bank, but guess it is a vacuum leak.
All other parameters seem pretty normal.

However, the work this morning did not take the problem away, and I remain to have 2 mayor issues:

1. The S/C making 2 noises:
a. A grinding noise, which I after reading about it, contribute to the coupler. My shoulder acted up so I stopped, but I think I heard the vanes knocking forward & backward when I stopped the engine.

b. A noise maybe comparable to an imbalanced washing machine, the irregular rumble you get if you spin it with shoes inside, just at a lower rpm.
Hard to locate, but I should say the vanes, can they touch each other?

2. The lack of power:
I should say the car rides as my N/A, an I feel no extra power the S/C should have.

BTW, it accelerates all the way up, so I rule out fuel (pump) issues for now.

Any ideas?

EDIT: Just gave it a 20km ride, and the following codes came back halfway (but no CEL):
P1336 - Powertrain
P0340 - Powertrain - Camshaft position sensor A circuit )Bank 1 or single sensor)
It runs smooth, albeit without the power, but there is a slight irregularity in the idle, a vibration every 2 seconds.

 

Here is short video of the 2 noises. Always hard to specify, but it might give an idea.
If you listen carefully, you hear the irregular rumble clearest at 15-25 sec.

 

Eric with regards to the codes, they point to the cam position sensor, does it start now? The book says 50% chance - CMPS circuit malfunction - dead sensor or wiring, dirt between reluctors and sensor etc. The strange thing is it'll run on when the signal is lost but may not start.

It's a shame your shoulder's playing up as it's a simple job to drop the SC belt and check the nose assembly for wear.

With regard to power loss, I'm guessing a compression test wouldn't go amiss, checking coolant for signs of oil and pulling a cam cover to inspect the timing parts - or a recon supercharger, belt and pulleys, something isn't right. I could probably tell you if I was there.

 

The 2x code came back twice, so I dare to think there is at least something.
It does throw the codes only once really warmed up, but it does not show any of the other symptoms of a failing sensor, car starts great, no stall, nothing.
I will see if I can at least clean the connector, although I doubt it is dirty.

I have thought through the night (...), and maybe you can give ur idea on the following 2 ideas:

A. It is directly supercharger related.
The only thing I can think is that it does not charge, meaning the vanes are toast. Am I right that this is impossible without catastrophic failure inside (it makes noises, but it turns and seem to rotate as it should).
If the S/C should not function at all, should Fuel Trims not be all over the place as well?

B. Like you say, something else is holding the power back, directly, or telling the ECU to do so (but again, no other codes, no CEL):

1. Spark plugs - gap - functioning - no history on replacement or type

2. Compression - but I don't notice blow-by from breather or oil cap removal

3. CAM Timing - I am rather sure not the problem, idle itself is smooth

4. CAM sensor - maybe screwing up before going out - but what data should go out of wack?

5. Crank sensor - same as above

6. Knock sensor - I have read they go without codes, and seriously effect power, even on the N/A engines - but I should see that in the timing advance, right?

7. forgot something?

You know I appreciate the help!

 

Ok, finally the sun came out, and I did some runs.
Here are all findings combined, I am at a loss ☹.

Most important, car drives very well, no hesitation, bit rough on idle, but that’s about it.
Problem: no power a S/C should have.

Cleaned / checked (OBD2) / adjusted:
- Air filter (clean)
- MAF (seems OKmaybe a tat high on idle)
- Temperatures air and coolant (in range and moving)
- TB plate (clean)
- Throttle position (2.7% at warm idle, 96% at full acc.)
- Vacuum (~22 at idle, minimum -27, seems all working, sprayed, no indication on leaks)
- S/C belt (no indication of slipping, no residue)
- S/C pulley (tight)
- S/C coupling (kaput, noisy)
- S/C bearings (hard to judge, noisy, maybe)
- S/C boost valve (moves at blipping, at rest if off)
- Spark advance (goes through full range)
- Battery (new, full, hard reset several times)
- Idle (~650 warm)
- Fuel trims (pretty steady and within range)
- Component status: sets every time
- Fuel pumps: both working
- Breathers partial and full (clean)

Not checked yet:
- Spark plugs
- Compression (but no indication of blow-by)

Issues noticed:
- Imbalance between Left and Right bank on LTFT (~5%)
- Fault codes keep coming back if hot:
- P1336 – Powertrain
- P0340 - Powertrain - Camshaft position sensor A circuit )Bank 1 or single sensor)
- Note: Starts perfect, no stalling in spite of above codes.

Acceleration 0-100km: 10 seconds +/- 0.3 sec ☹.

Video acceleration: next post

Video warm idle: next post