Hello All,

Here's my situation - I bought my Jag last week (used), I love it. It does, have a couple of issues that I'm working on (with the help of the forum).

1. The driver's side window as well as the driver's side rear window didn't operate. I heard a single click sound when I pressed the controls on either window. After reading some posts, I understood that the driver's window was somehow relayed through the rear (driver's side) window. So I started to pull the rear door panel off, stopped because I was late for an appointment, then kinda "banged" it back on AND THEN the driver's window started working again! Horray - but not the rear window - so I'm still working on that.

2. Yesterday after starting the car, which previously had NO idling issues, began to drop in RPMs, then it stalled on me. I started it again, left it idling and about 20 seconds later, after the RPMs dropped to appx 600 then to 500, it stalled again. I did see the AMBER light come on that once, but not since. My fuel gauge was just over the red line (towards empty), so I went off to throw some HEAT (dry gas) into the fuel tank, then added 5 gallons of premium fuel, drove home, and the car is now making a tapping sound in the engine (right side).

** I read here that there is a "hard boot" that is a possible effort to reset the module memory and that is a possibility to fix the window issue, so I'll try that - it was said that there is no "harm" doing this.

As far as the tapping, I can only guess that the dry gas had something to do with it. I will be replacing the fuel filter this weekend as I try to establish a "base line" of servicing on the vehicle.

Does anyone have any input they would like to add? I would appreciate it.

 

Can't help with the windows, haven't been there.

The 'hard boot' you refer to is to remove the negative cable from the battery and touch it to the positive post of the battery. That resets everything to an approximation of how the car left the factory.

We need a little more definition of 'tapping'. The VVT's can make a 'ticking' or 'clicking' sound on higher mileage cars. This is often described as the sound of hydraulic valve lifters.

Any Check Engine Lights? Get the codes read at a local auto parts store.

 

Thank you Test Point

The hard boot is more clear now.

As for the "tapping" definition. I drove the car yesterday on a 60 mile drive, and I didn't hear the noise while I was driving. But once I reached my nephew's home, and stopped in the driveway, it was clear and distinct. My nephew is a young "general mechanic". He listened and described the sound as a "slapping" of the timing belt or chain...perhaps off the guide or something. The sound is metalic and not a light sound. And it's more predominate at left-side (facing engine) and at the FRONT of the engine towards the top, but not on top.

No, there are no check engine lights being displayed.

Here's a link to two short videos I just made. One is just after starting the vehicle and the other is about 10 minutes after the vehicle has been running.

http://www.floridabiketrail.com/1999XJ8.html

Again, I appreciate any suggestions as to roughly what this might be. The car is under 30-day engine/transmission warranty through the car lot. So I will be bringing it in tomorrow as if this is a timing chain/belt issue, I am trusting these general mechanics to find the problem and fix it right.

Thanks!

Dan

 

I doubt it, but I just wonder if an idler/tensioner pulley is throwing it's hand in. Initially I thought it was much more serious - let us know what the guys find, by the way no timing belts on these engines, chains all the way.

 

Your car came with plastic cam chain tensioners which reliably fail. Symptom is 'rattle' at the top front of the engine. Result is to destroy the engine as it is an 'interference' design meaning the pistons and valves are capable of attempting to occupying the same space at the same time.

The other thing that makes noise in that area is the Variable Valve Timing units on higher mileage cars. It is often described at a 'ticking' above idle. Fix is to use higher viscosity oil.

The serpentine belt idler and tensioner pulleys can also make noise. Easy test is to remove the belt. If the noise goes away replace both.

Unless you can document replacement of the tensioners you really, really need to do a physical inspection which consists of pulling the valve cover. If you find orange plastic tensioners you really, really need to replace them.

The plastic tensioners have destroyed many an engine. Check the XK8/R FAQ Sticky under 'Engine' for more info than you ever wanted.

 

I just listened to your recordings. I would go with tensioners. I probably would not start the car again until I pulled a valve cover and maybe not until I replaced the tensioners.

If you choose, put a can of RESTORE in the oil. If the sound goes away it is VVTs.

Perhaps someone could offer another suggestion.

 

Give it some more alcohol and it might just dance, never mind sit there and tap.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

The dry gas addition is just coincidental to the noise, no connection.

 

try changing the oil to 20-50 and see if the sound goes away, if so it is the vvt. i have 180k on my vdp and have been experiencing an increase ticking sound, which went away when i rev the car. switched to 20-50 and the ticking sond decreased.

have slated to change the timing chain, tensioners and guides soon as preventive maintenance.

 

After listening to the video, I'd also add the secondary tensioners, the side you point towards has probably let go, I wouldn't use the car right now. There is a how to on replacing these in the sticky test point suggested, I'd print this off and take it along with the car for the techs to consider.

 

Today I drove (sorry) the car back to the dealership. Ran fine (as always). Pulled up to the mechanic's bay (where he was washing his Ford truck), stopped the car, got out and said hello, raised the hood, he walked over and said, "it shouldn't be making that noise, you might want to park it". LOL - so it's there now.

It's under a 30-day warranty for the engine/transmission, so I think that I just did squeek this one under the radar to them. I gave the salesman the keys, told him of the problem, and that my advisors at Jaguar Forums said to look into issue pronto...or else.

Of course, I'm hoping that the mechanic won't just epoxy something back together to get it running 'til the end of the warranty (2 more weeks). So I'm asking the salesman to provide me with a list of installed parts and whether they are new or used (for maintenance history).

I just read the forum's story about the tensioner....wow! That's actually the way life is. Gotta love it!

I'll keep you all posted on the "Return of the Jag" from the mechanic. By the way, the mechanic really liked this car, when I was inspecting it, he approached me and said how nice it was....and that it was the first car he ever stole.

 

Thanks again for all your great advise.

Follow-up:

On Tuesday, 9 November 2010, I brought the car back to the used car dealership/shop.

On Friday, 12 November 2010, I hadn't heard anything from the dealership, so I called for a status. I talked to the salesman, who informed that the owner would be giving me a call shortly.

Two hours later, the owner called me. He offered me a choice of my money back (so far I have put $3000.00 on the car), or to have the repairs done. I opted for the repairs - at their cost since the motor and tranny are under a 30-day warranty. I asked him if he would entertain the idea of me paying $100.00 for the other tensioner should the mechanic fix the broken one and have access to the other. You know, to have as much service done as possible while they engine is apart. He said that he wouldn't be able to incur the additional charges of taking down the car (a possible 3 hours additional time). I said, "okay, but I could do this entire repair myself". He jumped at the chance to tell me that IF I wanted to do the repair, he would credit me $350.00 - I laughed out loud! That's fine - it's under warranty - you fix it!

He informed me that he had driven the car for about 20 minutes (himself), heard the noise after the engine warrmed up and then handed off the repair to a "specialist", being someone other than the dealerships regular mechanic. And that he would have, said mechanic, work on the vehicle exclusively both Monday of Tuesday (I'm writing this post on Tuesday).

On Tuesday (today), 16 November 2010, I receive a call from the salesman, who called only to ask me if I made the "pick-up payment" of $250.00 yet (in the mail). I told him that I was hoping to have notification that the car would be ready today or tomorrow and that I would bring said payment to them at that time.

I asked if there was any status on the repair. His voice started cracking and getting nervous, and he stated that the "car be being repaired over at...well's is not here". LOL - I told him that 8 days is a bit long for a six-hour job and that I would have liked to have been informed of the status. (What I actually wanted to say was, "What the hell are you asking me for money for - when you can't be forthcoming about the vehicle's status).

I never knew that having a Jaguar could be so much fun! I love it! Thank God I'm semi-retired and some time on my hands.

I'm guessing that somewhere in his head, he's trying to keep the car as long as possible so that the warranty runs out just after I get the car back (or I'm overly suspicious). So the plan is to hopefully pick the car up in the next two days...then stay in the area of the dealership (Ft. Pierce - I live 30 minutes away) and drive it for a couple of hours....do the stop, look, and listen thing, and otherwise test out the repair - making sure to notice any leaking oil from the head gaskets and anywhere in the front of the engine! Prior to delivery to them, I took an extensive audio/video of the engines interior, the hood edges, the front quarter panel edges, etc. in case of paint scratches, dents, etc.

And yes, ultimately, I feel bad for the dealership owner - he's just trying to make a buck (times 7 thousand).

Do anyone have any other pointers for me on checking out the car after this service is completed?

 

You know I'd be inclined to ring around Ft Pierce Jag specialists, they'll be only a couple? and see how they're getting on with the engine!

 

Appears that they are only going to fix the bad tensioner. Please repair the other side or you are going to be doing a lot more posts on this subject.

It's really stupid of them not to allow you to pay for the other side to be fixed. Old saying; treated well, you will tell a friend, treated poorly, you will tell ALL your friends.

 

Get timing chain tensioners replaced immediately. There is enough supportive evidence to get it done on Jaguar forums unless you want to spend $12,000 on a new engine. The place where you purchased this lemon is trying to rip you off.

burza
1998 Vanden Plas

 

UPDATE ON THE REPAIR -

Thank you all for your very informed guidance. I did get my car back from the dealership (after the repair). The noise is gone - and I asked what was replaced. I was told that the damaged tensioner was replaced.

I believe all of you, in that, I will have to get in there myself and replace the other, but I couldn't during this repair as it was under warranty. With financing, I am paying $7100 for this vehicle, so I feel that in it's condition (as long as the engine doesn't crap out on me), it's well worth it. It's just a fine-running machine and it's beautiful - even with a couple of esoteric flaws (like the moon roof is a solid piece of metal, no glass, so it's not real).

This morning, I sent a second email request for a description of WHICH tensioner was replaced. So hopefully I'll get that for my maintenance records. Plus it will tell me which one I don't have to replace. They didn't tell me when I picked up the car as the dealership owner was nowhere to be found - conveniently - LOL

I already printed out the information for replacing the tensioners, and I don't put an excessive amount of mileage on the vehicle currently (for me it's still in a testing and caution phase), so I'll get to the other tensioner around January.

So for now - all is well - thanks everyone!

 

This tread has cautioned me, I've noticed a faint tapping sound in the front part of my engine. I have a 98 VDP with 161K, I am thinking it would be a great idea to do a omplete timing job since I'll have to tear the engine down to start with?

 

Dan: I hope your tensioner repairs have gone well. Some minor input to add. When you get around to the fuel filter, be sure to get the two o-rings needed to replace. My filter bought locally did not come with them. Had to go to the dealer to get. Minor headache.

 

It's been a while Thanks Rae! I did get the O-rings from the dealership in West Palm Beach. They cost more than the fuel filter (LOL). My car is running pretty darn well now. I had to make a cable for the driver's door handle (the old one broke)...so I did that with a bicycle brake cable (Yes, I'm cheap, but inventive), so that's working again.

All of you have been extremely helpful to me - so thank you all!!!!

Today I picked up the car after getting the windows tinted - a Christmas present I'll post new pictures next week. Somewhere during the process of the tinting something happened (maybe the tinting guy banged something ??) and now my memory light (for the personal positions of side-view mirrors, steering wheel, and seats) on the driver's door is now staying on, and the side-view mirrors are moving at random. The memory light is on even though the key is not in the ignition. So I just disconnected the battery for the night - I'm going to hard boot it tomorrow and maybe that will help.

 

My wife thought I was being paranoid about the 'slight engine rattle' when starting cold. I took it to the dealer and asked them to replace all of the plastic tensioner gear with the newer metal ones. The mechanic showed me the plastic debris. Said the parts had a few hours left... phew! Jaguar should be ashamed of themselves for putting that plastic junk in such a nice engine

 

I agree 100% with the OP, that's a tapping noise, not a rattle. Good to know. I'll listen for 'tapping' noises upon start-up.