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Because it's my car and I'll do whatever I see fit to it. I've had nothing but bad experience with NGK on several different cars, so I won't fit them if I can help it. Bosch were pioneers in vehicle ignition systems and are a major player today, so I trust them in my car. Bosch themselves make an Iridium and a double Iridium plug, but I chose Super 4's as they are a heavy duty plug I've used with great success on a number of different vehicles.
If NGK offered me free plugs for life, I'd still fit Bosch. End Of.
Brand is one thing and I get we all may have our preference .....
Welcome to the forum Saltzman,
Please follow this link New Member Area - Intro a MUST - Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum to the New Member Area - Intro a MUST forum and post some information about yourself and your vehicle for all members to see. In return you'll get a proper welcome and some useful advice about posting to the forum.
Jaguar only fit NGK plugs to the cars because they clearly have a good deal going on, like sponsorship almost. I'm sure that if Bosch or Champion had offered a better deal they would've gone with them.
Stu,
Your car looks great! Thanks for sharing the photos and progress.
Not to get into a spark plug fight, because it is definitely your right to use whatever plug you choose in your car, and I've tried those Bosch 4-electrode plugs myself. But for the sake of other readers who may not have your knowledge and experience, I feel obliged to respond to the above statement, because there is probably more to the story. While it is certainly possible, if not likely, that Jaguar/Ford had a marketing relationship with NGK during the years when the X308 and X350 were manufactured, it seems unlikely that NGK was chosen strictly for marketing/financial reasons because the engine management systems for those models were made by Denso, and NGK has long been Denso's brand of choice in a wide range of vehicles since the days when it was a wholly-owned division of Toyota.
Saltzman,
if I'm not mistaken, the original X308 plug specification called for NGK PFR5G-11E, which has a center electrode tipped in Platinum, not Iridium. That plug was subsequently updated by NGK to the PFR5G-13E (2761), which is also a Platinum plug. While many owners have followed NGK's later recommendation and upgraded to longer-lasting Iridiums (such as the BKR5EIX-11 (5464)), if you use the NGK parts finder to search for "Original Equipment Series" plugs for an X308, their recommended OE plug is still the Platinum PFR5G-13E for both the N/A and S/C engines:
EDIT: After Saltzman got a different result at the NGK Part Finder, I tried again and discovered that about half the time you get the "Original Equipment Series" results, and the other half of the time you get the modern Iridium results. Weird!
OK, I started this as a nice little thread to share my progress with members and to show how a few things are done, as well as covering some common problems with these cars. I wasn't trying to show off to anyone or make out like I'm some sort of authority on these cars, I was doing it in case anyone either now or in the future might need any reference or ideas.
However, it would seem that someone along the line has taken exception to my use and preference to a brand of Spark Plug in my car. This is now, in my opinion, blown all out of proportion and has taken the thread into the dark murky waters of an argument among folk.
Now whether Saltzman is a forum member hiding behind a second profile or a 12 year old troll operating purely on some pub knowledge he gleaned from some facebook groups is not for me to determine. But they have put a negative slant on my thread, so thanks for ruining it.
I've had issues like this on other forums in the past, and frankly I can't be bothered dealing with them. I'm not going to sit here and be told what to do with my own property, but it's looking like I'll not be a member much longer if this sort of thing continues.
To have a member of Stu's knowledge upset by a newbie pedant backed up by a mod isn't the right thing to do.
A relevant spark plug choice thread should have these posts and information within, someone with the admin rights should make it so......
Then Stu can get back to his work on the car, not having to deal with irrelevant b.s.
To have a member of Stu's knowledge upset by a newbie pedant backed up by a mod isn't the right thing to do.
I certainly wasn't backing up Saltzman, nor was I criticizing Stu for his choice of plug - as I mentioned I've tried those Bosch plugs myself. One of the best uses of this public forum is to openly share Jaguar factory specifications and compare them with users' experience with alternatives. There ought to also be room for the respectful expression of opposing opinions without one's feathers being ruffled. I think we've all made our contributions and can now let Stu have his thread back.
P.S. To leave Stu's thread a little visually cleaner, I deleted the pages from the Jaguar manuals and left the links, which make the factory info available to those who are interested.
+1.
It is very nice to see a positive progress thread among the many threads which only state problem after problem.
Stu seems to be very well knowing what he wants, and how to get there, and his love and determination to bring a beautiful semi-classic x308 back to ''better than new'' is something quite some of us here on the forum could have.
Only for this, he deserves a thread uninterrupted with any outside discussions, please give him that.
Stu, as you know, I for one love to see your stubborn determination to get this car back, and just hope you will stay and update us on the future progress.
E.
Last edited by ericjansen; 04-04-2017 at 06:23 PM.
Don thanks for this publication. I will PM you regarding this matter further.
Stu: This is a public thread open to the public, and people are going to ask questions and make comments you may or may not like. I gave you a compliment and asked 2 questions. Over dramatizing this with insults, being rude, threatening that you may are no longer be a member if a thread doesn't go your way is absurd, get over yourself.
As for hijacking, it happens. Don and I never intended for that to happen and
unfortunately it does happen in a public setting. If you don't want me to comment further on this then leave this here. Out of respect for your progress of these amazing cars, I will wait for more updates, and ask questions if I have any. How you choose to an deal with them is up to you. Good luck with the car!
When was I rude? You came on here and told me I was using inferior parts in my car. I've been personally involved with these cars now for 8 years, do you really think I'd fit a part to the car that would be below the standard specification? I know what's best and what isn't for these cars, I'm one of those who expects this car to still be here in 30 years so I'm not going to impair that by fitting bad parts.
As for over dramatising, in case you missed it I'll say it again. I've had problems where people attack my choices and decisions on forums in the past. I was involved with another car club at a high level, but I resigned from that club and my position when a certain member decided to target me. That started off in a similar way to what has happened here, but soon began to get more personal. Ghost profiles were created and it was beginning to ruin the forum for genuine people. I stepped down and away from the club for the benefit of other members, which basically let the troll win. I don't want that to happen here, hence my "threat" to leave is more through courtesy than exasperation.
Guys, it seems that all forums are getting "bombarded" with trolls and tw@s looking to start some kind of "knowledge" battle or find any reason to insult someone...
@Stu
Your thread is great so far. Carry on with the work... A little "OT" is okay. I understand, that you prefer NOT to use NGK. Personal taste at it's best. I like to use NGK. Doesn't mean your/my engine is less superior. That is what others should be seeing.
@Saltzman
Stu is a user who knows what he is doing and is extremely helpful. The problem with WRITTEN messages rather than SPOKEN or VISUAL messages is: you can't see/hear how the person meant it. A friendly but "determined" answer can quickly sound unfriendly in a text form... A way to smoothen that is to use emojis but not everyone likes to...
Hi Stu,thanks for a great thread,I've enjoyed reading about your renovation and as for a first time owner of the X308 Jag I have found it very interesting so please keep us updated on your car.
My son lives in Thornton Cleveleys so I might see you driving about up there some time while I'm visiting him,don't think I'd miss the cleanest X308 up North,
All the best my friend,
Take Care
Andy
Hi Andy,
Yes, you may well see her driving around although you'd have to be South of Preston as I'm not normally in that area of Lancashire.
I haven't done anything with the car the last couple of weeks except wash her and keep her under her cover. I need to get back into the workshop to replace the oil sump gasket and do a few little jobs before I'm happy to go on any decent length journey. I need to be quick though, I'm supposed to be driving her to Southern Belgium in just over a month!
I've been a very busy bee of late, but sadly not with the car. I've been in the process of changing jobs the last few weeks and that's taken up a lot of my time. I'm pleased to say that on Tuesday I will be beginning a new career, which is better suited to me as an individual, as well as better wages.
But I've managed to get a few things done when time allowed me to. Apart from the lean codes I'm chasing, as mentioned in the other thread I started recently the other thing that was causing me an issue was the transmission. I had the system drained, the transgo valve fitted and fresh fluid put in, but soon after collecting my car I could hear the transmission starving for fluid from cold and in certain driving conditions. I returned the car to the garage, who said they attempted to add more fluid, but the transmission wouldn't take it. The noise clearly told me that more fluid was required, so I decided to do it myself.
I've filled one of these ZF boxes before, it's neither straight forward or fun. I bought 2 litres of fluid, got my transmission syringe filled and ready and got all the necessary tools out an within easy reach. I then jacked the car up and put her on stands, which allowed me just enough clearance to access the filler plug. The plug itself was all mangled and in tight, I could tell it had been removed incorrectly possibly by using the wrong tool. Not impressed I contacted the garage who'd done the fluid to find out who'd done the work.
As it turns out, the main job was done by the old school mechanic who runs the place, but the attempt to top up was done by an apprentice. He'd not only used the wrong type of hex key to get the plug out, and further investigation revealed he also hadn't cycled through the gears as the fill procedure instructs.
A quick call to my friend on the parts desk at my local Jaguar dealer had me a brand new filler plug in my hand same day, keenly priced at £9.99. Much better than the £25 quoted to me by a local Jag spares guy. More and more I'm finding the dealer to be better priced for X308 stuff than some specialist suppliers.
Back to the job and getting the knackered plug out. I gently heated it with a flame for no more than 20 seconds, then using the correct sized hex head socket and breaker bar, I got it to turn. New plug at the ready, I went about the filling procedure. I managed to get nearly a litre of fluid into the box, although some of that did end up on the floor. But now the transmission is quiet and functions as it should.
I'm really enjoying driving this car though, she's a lovely thing to run around in. Her presence on the road doesn't go unnoticed, I get a lot of sideways looks from drivers of newer cars doing their best not to be seen looking at the old Jag.
Today I fitted a pair of X350 exhaust tips onto the car, however they' weren't a direct fit and some fabrication had to be done. I bought these for the grand sum of £4 off ebay, and they are much nicer to look at than the ones fitted to the X308 from new which I've always disliked.
I will point out now that these are just a temporary measure to put me on until I can have a custom set up made. I just wasn't keen on driving round much longer with empty spaces where the tips should be.
Unlike the X308 tips which screw on, these are a physical part of the exhaust and the seller seems to have cut them off the box. What I ended up doing was finding some pipe that was slightly larger than the X308 exhaust tube and drilling three holes around it's circumference. I then drilled matching holes in the exhaust tube, and screwed the pipe onto the tube. I then painted it black, and did the same to the inside of the X350 trims. This is because if left silver it would be seen and look rubbish. Then using a rubber mallet I gently knocked the trim onto the bigger pipe, which is a tight fit to prevent movement. Finally I screwed a long screw through a hole I'd drilled at the rear of the trim piece to make contact with the exhaust tube to hold it in place.
End result looks good, and it'll hopefully do me until I can sort out the custom system I've got in my head.
04-03-2017, 05:33 PM
Great Thread
,
