Hi there again.

As I mentioned in another post, I just got myself a nice and extremely good looking 98 XJ 8 a few weeks ago. The car drives smoothly and without any problems, except for the occasional warning of “High Gearbox Temperature” that’s subject of another post.

I took the car to the Control Technique (equivalent to MOT in the UK) and was in for a rude awakening. It turned out that the car was supposed to have emissions of not more than 0.3 of something and instead had emissions of 9.1. yes, that’s right 9.1.

Hence that car failed the inspection and I’m not sure how to proceed from here. I’m in France and the buyer is supposed to do a Control Technique (MOT) before selling the car, which he did. He just couldn’t find the corresponding report of the inspection when we picked up the car but assured us in writing that the car was fine.

I’m currently in the process of retaining an attorney to reverse the sale; however, it breaks my heart as I really like the car.

Do you guys have any ideas on what may cause the emissions of the car go through the roof like that? I also noticed that the car consumes gas at excessive levels (even for Jag). The Control Technique technician suggested that the Lamda Sonde may be to blame.

I guess I’m posting this because I’m still hopeful that all this is fixable at reasonable cost and thus, I won’t have to engage in litigation and can keep the car. Unfortunately, the way it looks it seems that I’m running out of options.

Thanks for your time and help with this.

 

To help as far as poss. here.
Exessive emissions on a petrol car for MOT would be the carbon monoxide level at idle. This would be a dead giveaway for your excessive fuel consumption, and might have been the reason the previous owner sold it. If my memory serves me right (it's been a long time since I ran a petrol car!), I think you are allowed abs. max of 1.6% CO at idle, although this figure might have been reduced since.
You need to have the errorcodes checked (plenty advice right here) and see what is wrong. A lambda sensor might well be faulty, but there's plenty of other things too. The lambda sensor looks for free oxygen in the exhaust gasses, and adjust the mixture ratio of fuel/air accordingly, but this is only one function going on here.
Re. fuel consumption, at 60mph, long uninterrupted drive, full temperature, I would accept 25mpg., and would be very pleased at 30mpg. It's a big two-ton petrol motor remember.
Re. getting you're money back, if you manage it, I'll eat my trousers.
Leedsman.

 

Thanks again Leedsman. Your post was very helpful.
I did some more digging and found that the most likely cause for the excessive C02 emission is a defective Lamnda sonde/oxygen sensor. As you said, this might also explain the excessive fuel consumption.

Since the C02 output of my car is through the roof (9.96% vs 0.3%) another possible reason may be a failed catalytic converter, vacuum leak, or problem with the exhaust.

I have decided to take her in and have her checked out at the dealership. Let's see what happens.

As far as nullifying the sale is concerned, I don't know if you noticed but I'm in France (I'm originally from the US) and they have very specific laws in place to prevent sellers from selling junkers to unsuspecting buyers. I have already talked to an attorney who also suggested to take the car to Jaguar to get to the bottom of these issues and get a qualified estimated for the repairs.

I'm also in contact with the seller who already offered to contribute EUR 500 to the repair bill. Let's see where we go with this.

Cheers!

 

Ah, I see you had an ace up your sleeve Badcat -- you're in France. Different laws. That E500 offer from the vendor, get it in your pocket PDQ, before he has time to think about it and get stingy. Fingers crossed, if you get a mechanic who knows what he's doing, the outcome might be sweet.
My motor goes for its MOT end of this month...fingers and toes crossed for me.
Leedsman.
p.s. I'm looking at my trousers with different eyes now...

 

I got an estimate from our local Jaguar service center that seems to suggest that the fuel injectors are at fault and need to be replaced. Since this is not a small repair if I go with OEM parts rather than with refurbished ones, I’d like to pick your brains on the issue. What would you do?

Also, I came across an eBay listing for a 2008 S-Type that the owner reimported from the United Arab Emirates but couldn’t get registered in Germany because the car was only up to Euro 2 emission standards. He had to sell it as a donor vehicle or export only.

Upon review of my car’s Carte Grise V.9 section I found that there’s Euro 2 mentioned as well although I don’t really know what that means. Would that keep me from getting the car through the required CT inspection hence from being able to register the car in France?

I know this may sound paranoid, but that’s how I feel.

Many thanks for your thoughts.

Cheers!


Karl

 

You should start with the simple and cheap fixes first and see what happens. Fuel injectors are unlikely to be worn out, but could need cleaning. The Lambda sensors are a typical failure at 12 years old. Check the wiring to them too, as this is a very hot region of the engine compartment.

 

Trying to keep things relatively ordered. Here is my reply to an email received. I note that Fraser and Leedsman are already on the case.

Hi Karl, sorry to see that you are having such a time of it with the CT. For what it is worth here are my 2€.

The Euro 2, refers to a ‘Standard’ for emissions based on manufacture date. It started with Euro 1 and is now heading to Euro 6. Basically the lower the number, the older the car and the higher emissions it would be allowed.

Euro 2 for private petrol cars, = Jan 96 to Jan 2000, when Euro 3 with a lower tolerance came in and so on. (So the guy's 2008 S Type only meeting Euro 2 would be an automatic fail, because less than half is allowed between E2 and E4)

So having Euro 2 is not a bad thing because it allows more CO.

You say that your CO2 is off the scale are you sure it is CO2 and not CO because IIRC the CT measure CO and not CO2 (I will check).

Now for my limited tech knowledge.

You say that you have been told to change the injectors and plugs. OK change the plugs as a matter of course, but the injectors???

The first thing to do is to have the codes read, probably by the Jaguar dealer due to your location. But your local indi’ Renault dealer may have a code reader.

This will give a much more accurate diagnosis of what is causing your HIGH emissions.

When you have the codes, post them up on the forum and it will give our Tech guys something to go on.

From a purely lay point of view, I would be thinking about O2 sensors (lambda sensors) fairly high on the list (but, codes are king here). Also throttle potentiometer could be a suspect.

Looking at the photo of the underside of the car, the exhaust looks a little tired, can you reach under and give the cats a bit of a gentle tap with the flat of your hand. If they rattle, they may have broken down. But again codes.

You get the idea about having the codes read.

As for the injectors, I am sure that you would see some sort of running problem if they were that bad, rough idle, no power, maybe smoke, poor starting……

Make a post over in the X300/308 section for your MY, feel free to copy/paste this email, it may help you get started. (ignore this point)


Don’t know what your French is like, but if you need help with the dealer over the phone to discuss code reading give me a shout.

Hope this is of some help.

Best regards,
Richard

 

Thank you so much for your elaborate response, Richard.

You mentioned codes in your post a few times, where/how would they emerge? Would they appear on the car’s dashboard, or do you need a code reader to see what’s going on? I know it’s probably a stupid question but this is my first Jag and although I love the car, given all the trouble I’m not sure there will be a second.

Anyways, I turned the car in to Jaguar in Brest and they identified the “injecteurs” as likely to cause the excessive CO emissions. I got it on a written estimate. I’m with you on finding this a little peculiar, to say the least; the car drives perfectly with no trouble starting even if it’s -5C in the morning. I also remember them saying that there were no error codes indicating what’s wrong, which I think should have been the case if in fact the injectors weren’t functioning properly.


I actually pointed out to them that (i) the oxygene sensor (Lambda sonde), (ii) a failed catalytic converter, (iii) a vacuum leak, (iv) a clogged breather pipe or (v) a leak in the exhaust may be to blame, but they did not concur.



BTW, the inspector who conducted the CT inspection also thought that the Lambda sonde was to blame especially since the car seems to consume more fuel than it should (I know it's an oxymoron when mentioning this in connection with a Jag).


You’re right, my French is still in its infancy, but my wife is French and thus, I don’t think we’re having a problem on that end. On the other hand, she’s no technical expert and thus, I have no idea what’s getting lost in translation.

I’m at my wit’s end and no longer sure I can get the car through the CT.

Any help and additional pointers would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks

 

Never underestimate the influence of injectors -- they can indeed 'seem' ok in a petrol car, but they easily clog as I found with my 1996 XJ6 a few years ago. Whip 'em out and have them cleaned (they do it ultrasonically these days), and if they so advise, get them fitted with any new parts such as a new pintle as required. You won't be wasting any money because even if they aren't the cause of your problem, the gain in fuel efficiency will be well worth it with the high-priced petrol today.
Leedsman.
p.s. With diesel engines, the injectors are even more critical -- I've been told by an MOT inspector when faced with a failure on smoke (particulate test) to use injector cleaner and go for a high-speed drive -- and it's worked! Particulates then below the limit.