a friend of a friend had his mechanic leave while doing this motor and he didnt use any of the lockdown tools or mark everything while taking them off to do a head gasket. i know the cam flats have to be facing up and parallel but i cant seem to get the crank in the right spot cause i cant get it to turn over by hand. i need to know which cyl has to be at tdc so i can get this timing set so they can get this thing back in the car and send it on its way....

 

Can't get it to turn it to turn over by hand ? ? ? ?

I don't think that is how timing is set. I don't think the cam flats are associated with a TDC of any piston. You are going to have to find the crank alignment hole in the flex plate then align the cams from there

First thing you might address is getting the crank to turn.

 

yeah i tried setting the two front cyls at tdc one at a time and turning the motor by hand is a no go, its locking up. ill try lining up the flexplate to where the tool is supposed to go. thanks. btw the shop owner doesnt want to buy the tools so im doing this the hard way

 

The cams and every rotating engine component relies in the correct timing. To get it right I think you will need both sets of cam lock downs and the flywheel lock down tool that goes in the cam position sensor hole. There is one hole in the flywheel that this lockdown pin centers into. At that point your cams and crank are in the correct orientation.

I think the problem with getting the correct cylinder to TDC and going from there is that you don't have a way to fine tune the timing like you would with a distributor type ignition. Since the timing is all electronic it will rely on the cams and crank being in the right orientation at the right time. Where do you live? I made a set of cam lock down tools that I lent out before for the cost of shipping. I don't have a crank lock down tool.

Also, I'm sure some will have an alternative idea to get the timing right.

 

It has been often enough reported that the cam position does not correspond to a particular tdc that I believe it. In any case, I cannot imagine anyone believing they can get true tdc easier than alignining the "special hole" with the crank position hole.
And I hope that none of us ever have the misfortune to land at this hack shop you work at!

 

With the heads having been off and no alignment a piston is probably pushing on a valve. Start over time.

 

Finding TDC is not part of the solution for you. Start with all chains off and rotate the cams until they are not pushing on any valves. Then rotate the crankshaft bolt until you can insert the locking tool. Don't shortcut this step!

If you can't rotate the crank with the cams at the free point then you have some serious mechanical problem - bent valve, broken ring, etc - that must be addressed before going further.

With the crank in position, then turn the cams until flats line up and lock them down. Remove the sprockets and install the chains. Tension the drive side of the exhaust sprocket and tighten it down, wind back the VVT and then tighten the intake. Your timing will be right on. You can do one side at a time no problem. Rent the tools for $50 and do it right.

 

Agreed

 

great,thanks for the info,the only thing that escapes me,is the part about the vvt and winding it back.it ddoesnt look like it could without moving that cam? the sprocket is one piece for the main and secondary chains.

 

actually i dont work there. i was brought in to help out due to my own knowledge of the 4.6 dohc ford motors ive done. i work on cars as a hobby with side work from time to time...im glad i dont work there lol. im actually looking to open a shop with my cousin in the near future.

 

Perhaps you might start with obtaining a copy of JTIS and downloading the technical documents found on the XK8/R forum FAQ sticky.

 

As to you not finding the VVTs, you did not say what model you were working on. No VVTs must be a XJR- which does not have them.

 

it does have it. i just dont understand how your supposed to turn it back so to speak. its a 2000 s-type

 

There is a special tool that has two small pins at the end of a tube with a handle (you will see this tool in pics of the complete timing tool sets). The tube slides into the center of the sprocket and the pins engage two small holes. Rotate counterclockwise until you hit stop point to unwind. Mine only needed an eighth rotation or so and no real force is needed.

That is for my XJ8 - someone who has done an S-type could confirm it is the same deal.

 

Look in the pic. The tool being mentioned is similar to a spanner wrench. It is used to tension the secondary timing chain relative to the variable Valve Timing sprocket.

If you are attempting to complete what your mechanic started without manuals or instructions you are going to have some challenges. Overall the job is not to difficult as long as you have the right tools and instructions.

Also, the motor you have is the same as the 4.0's in the XJ8's WRT the chain tensioners. If you have not already done so, you might subscribe to AllData. The write-up on the chain tensioners is great and has all the tools and details you will need to get the Cams and Crank back in order. JTIS is also good, but might not work correctly on windows 7, it does work with Win XP.

All the info you received in this thread is correct. You will not be able to get everything back together correctly without the use of the cam and crank lockdowns and the chain tensioner wrench.

 

i can't open that file,the site is saying i don't have permission to access that page

 

and to everyone else that keeps saying get the tools...id like to but the shop owner refuses too and im not spending a dime out of my pocket for a job that i was brought into for help. so get the tool thing out of you're heads. there's ways around that if need be and you have the experiance that i have. i do very much appreciate all of the helful info though. thank you all!

 

Take a look at the tools. The alignment tool can be made with a piece of angle iron and some washers and bolts. For the amount of time spent fabricating something you probably could have rented a set. They show up on eBay all the time but not at the moment. Buy a set, use them, sell them.

 

That is why they make TOOLS. When we as a species decided to stand up straight and stop dragging our knuckles we also decided that we should make some tools to make our lives easier. Hence we have separated ourselves from the rest of the living things on the planet. When you decide to separate yourself from the dumb @$$ knuckle dragging mechanic you're using you too will get some TOOLS. In the mean time enjoy the fight, but remember it could be over by now because with the right tools this a couple hours of work

 

Here is a link to the full set of alignment tools. By the time you pay shipping both ways you will have about $100 in it. How many hours of labor is that?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JAGUA...motiveQ5fTools