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While I don't disagree with any of that on a technical level, I would also submit that specifications notwithstanding the Esso fluid works with 100% certainty, the ZF box a pain to work on, and it's not known for its durability. On my car, $70 worth of fluid versus $5 worth of fluid (or whatever those numbers truly are) is not a significant enough spread to warrant experimentation given what's at stake. If the Mobil 1, Castrol Import, Valvoline Max Life, Pentoson ATF1, Mobil1 Synthetic ATF, Royal Purple Max ATF, or whatever fluid is demonstrably better it's worth consideration but lacking such evidence, me, personally, $50 or $100 saved is not worth me having to do a job twice due to malfunction or wondering forever if my experimentation hastened failure. That's just my $0.02, YMMV.
P.S. FWIW, Mobil makes both Mobil1 and Esso, and I'd say if Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF says it meets the Esso spec, it does so almost certainly. And I'd still use the Esso.
I’m about a decade late, but, I have a 2005 jaguar Xj8 and I have no clue as to what transmission oil to use, I don’t know which is recommended from jaguar? Any recommendation? I’m willing to experiment with a close substitute.
I’m about a decade late, but, I have a 2005 jaguar Xj8 and I have no clue as to what transmission oil to use, I don’t know which is recommended from jaguar? Any recommendation? I’m willing to experiment with a close substitute.
Hi Theguyyyy,
If your XJ8 really is a 2005 model year, then it is not an X308, but rather an X350 with the ZF 6HP26 six-speed transmission. If so, then the three known-correct fluids for your gearbox are ZF Lifeguard 6, Ford Motorcraft Mercon SP, and Shell Spirax S4 ATF MSP. All three are manufactured by Shell and have the same chemistry aside from the red dye added to Mercon SP at Ford's request. In the U.S., Mercon SP is the most readily available and affordable. It can be purchased from any Ford dealership, but stores like Advance Auto Parts carry it, and it can be ordered from Amazon or eBay sellers.
All of the other fluids we are aware of whose manufacturers claim are a suitable substitute have been shown to differ significantly in one or more ways from the known-correct fluids, or the manufacturer's claims are so implausible as to not be credible.
The procedure for changing the fluid is not as straightforward as on older cars. Here's one DIY that will answer many questions. See the ZF document attached to the post also. And one important tip is to not loosen the drain plug until you have first confirmed that you can loosen and remove the fill plug. If you drain the fluid but can't remove the fill plug to add new fluid, you're going to have a long day. If you use the method in the post below, you won't necessarily have to deal with the drain or fill plugs, but if it's been a long time since the fluid has been changed, then you should also replace the pan/filter, valve body bridge seal and tubular seals, and the electrical connector sealing sleeve. Search the forums for instructions.
I used Valvoline MaxLife. Either on the bottle or on the Valvoline website it stated compatible with Esso LT 71141 ATF.
Changed fluid, filter and added TransGo valve at 100k. Running great at 130k.
You can change all the fluid (including what’s in torque converter) by disconnect line to trans cooler and pumping fluid in fill hole until the fluid coming out of the trans cooler hose is fresh.
I used Valvoline MaxLife. Either on the bottle or on the Valvoline website it stated compatible with Esso LT 71141 ATF.
Changed fluid, filter and added TransGo valve at 100k. Running great at 130k.
You can change all the fluid (including what’s in torque converter) by disconnect line to trans cooler and pumping fluid in fill hole until the fluid coming out of the trans cooler hose is fresh.
Hi pcolapacker,
Regarding Valvoline MaxLife ATF, I and other members have researched it extensively, and here is one example of what I've written (copied from one of dozens of other threads on this topic):
Many knowledgeable and respected members of these forums have spent countless hours researching correct fluids for Jaguar transmissions, and one thing we've learned is that Valvoline cannot be trusted regarding the specifications its Multi-Vehicle fluids are claimed to meet. Apparently, they are able to offer fluids at lower prices by compromizing the formulations to make them "suitable" or "just good enough" for use in a wide variety of vehicles. But a fluid "good enough" for use in so many gearboxes can't possibly be optimal for use in any of them.
For example, Valvoline claims its MaxLife Import Multi-Vehicle Transmission Fluid is suitable for use in ZF 3-speed, 4-speed, 5-speed, 6-speed, 8-speed and 9-speed transmissions. Yet ZF insists that the 3-/4-, 5-, 6-, and 8-/9-speed boxes require four different fluids that are not interchangeable or backward-compatible, and if you check the Material Data Safety Sheets for those fluids, you'll find that their chemical properties are quite different from one another.
As another example, Valvoline claims that this same fluid is suitable for use in Ford vehicles that require Mercon SP, Mercon V, Mercon LV and more recently, Mercon C (for CVTs!). Yet Ford insists that these fluids are not interchangeable and, for example, Mercon LV must never be used in a transmission that requires Mercon V, and vice-versa. And Ford states that Mercon C must never be used in a conventional, non-CVT unit! By the way, Mercon SP is chemically identical to ZF Lifeguard 6, which is VERY differrent from Lifeguard 5, yet Valvoline claims their fluid is a suitable replacement for both!
Here's a link to the product info sheet in which Valvoline makes its implausible claims:
Since fluid-related transmission failures may occur over tens of thousands of miles, it may be impossible to realize a fluid is causing your transmission to have incorrect internal pressures, temperatures, torque converter power transfer, slippage, anti-corrosion and anti-foaming properties, seal incompatibility, etc.
It's not always easy to tell if a fluid is suitable for your transmission, but an easy criterion to check is the fluid's kinematic viscosity. The kinematic viscosity of ZF Lifeguard 5 at 40°C is 37 mm2/s. The KV40 of Valvoline MaxLife is just 28.8 mm2/s. So you are running a fluid that is too "thin" for your transmission.
Below are links to the Material Safety Data Sheets for Lifeguard 5 and MaxLife so you can compare for yourself:
The transmission is the second-most expensive component in your vehicle. Is it really worth using a fluid that has been designed to be just "good enough" to work in dozens of dissimilar transmissions for which the manufacturers specify very different fluids? Since transmission fluid needs to be changed so infrequently, why not spend a little more and use a fluid the transmission engineers tested and approved?
The only fluids we know to be correct in the ZF 5HP24 five-speed transmission are:
ZF Lifeguard 5
ESSO LT 71141
Pentosin ATF 1 Febi Automatikgetriebeöl (ATF) Nr. 29738
VW/Audi G 052 162 A2
Ravenol ATF 4/5 HP
In the U.S., I find the Pentosin and Febi fluids to be the easiest to find, and sometimes the Ravenol (FCP Euro and the eBay seller partscontainer are good sources).
^^^Don is right, get the correct fluid or you gonna do job twice
Correct is lt71141 and not "lt71141 compatible" stuff, while viscosity of compatible oil may be close friction modifiers are not.
Don list is legit, esso is now mobile 1
Dons List
The only fluids we know to be correct in the ZF 5HP24 five-speed transmission are:
ZF Lifeguard 5 ESSO LT 71141 Pentosin ATF 1 Febi Automatikgetriebeöl (ATF) Nr. 29738 VW/Audi G 052 162 A2
Ravenol ATF 4/5 HP
Sorry to reply again, on this list there is no Mobil LT71141, who I thought had taken over the product from Esso, is this incorrect, I will ring Mobil on Tuesday to confirm.
Also, XJACK, you mentioned "Correct is lt71141 and not "lt71141 compatible" stuff, while viscosity of compatible oil may be close friction modifiers are not"
Found SPECIFICATION sheet for Esso LT 71141?
And a comparison of Esso LT 71141& Mobile LT 71141
SO Which ones are the Friction Modifiers?
There's an obvious difference, unless its a mistake,
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40 Esso = 37 / Mobil = 7.4
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100 Esso = 7.3 / Mobil = 37
Looks Like a TYPO Error??
There's an obvious difference, unless its a mistake,
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40 Esso = 37 / Mobil = 7.4
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100 Esso = 7.3 / Mobil = 37
Looks Like a TYPO Error??
Hi Jagger98,
The viscosity numbers are switched on the Mobil data sheet.
Friction modifiers are part of the additive package that also typically includes other chemicals such as anti-corrosion agents, anti-foaming agents, seal conditioners, viscosity modifiers, dyes, and others. All of these additives matter, not only the friction modifiers. Some of these will be listed on the full Material Safety Data Sheets, but companies are only required to disclose ingredients that are toxic or hazardous in order to help protect their trade secrets. So it is usually impossible for us to compare all of the additives in two different transmission fluids.
There is a good chance that Mobil 1 ATF LT 71141 is suitable for use in the ZF 5HP24, but I would have to do more research before I personally felt this was confirmed. A good place to start would be to find full MSDSs for the Mobil 1 and ZF Lifeguard 5 and compare the disclosed ingredients, including the base oils and additives. These will be listed with a CAS (Chemical Abstracts Service) registry number.
esso is now mobile 1 got it there while searching info on taking valve block apart, but don't quote me on that.
Guys who replaced torque converter on my car filled gearbox with liqui molly atf 1200 which clearly states compatible with lt71141, as for me, liqui molly may even have drag queen sell their stuff but it is all but compatible, i ended flushing stuff with mobile 1.
02-16-2023, 08:19 PM
