Hi, brand new here!

I'm a long time Bimmerforums member, recently S54 swapped my E36 M3 Sedan daily (273k on the clock) and also have a 94 740il E32 my wife dailies.

Every time we pass an X308 my wife tells me how much she likes them, and the last time (last week) she said she'd be happy to upgrade if I ever felt like learning a whole new brand.

Well, I do - I think they're beautiful too, and I think an XJR would provide a much sportier drive than an E38 7 Series (+100 hp) and have an even more timeless design.

I'm aware an X358 offers an all- aluminum construction that's still cutting edge today, but A) I already have a much lighter, highly modified near- race car if I'm in the mood to be a hooligan, and B) the X308 is significant better looking in my book. Further, sticking with an XJR (maybe a 100 or an R1 even) should provide a significant upgrade over the Buick disposition of the E32 notwithstanding it not being at X358 levels of handling. Also, I borderline -hate- modern technology in cars. Touchscreens have no place in cars, so I have no use for any gizmos in an X358.

I've read the stickies at the top like I should, but I'm left with a couple questions.

The major repairs thread lists 1998-2002 for most of the major issues, but I understand X308s ran through 2003. I saw some threads that make me wonder if 2003 was a transition year that solved many of these issues (engine upgrades? Engine changeover the year before the body changeover? <- which is common in BMW-land) while retaining the prettier X308 body?

Second question - where's the best place to look? I'm monitoring the normal places (Facebook, autotrader / cars.com, BAT, carsandbids), but would rather not buy on BaT unless the dynamic there for XJRs is better than the way the world is overpaying for examples of my 1990's vintage M3.

In my experience the best place I could come for advice on starting my journey is right here. I'm looking forward to getting to know you guys, and appreciate the time you'll take to share your collective wisdom!

Thanks!

Josh
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I'd say from 2000's and up is good to search. It makes search easier and improvements aren't that big in later years. Better FOBs may be the biggest improvement in late cars.

 

Welcome!

There are two distinct iterations, the 1998-2000MY cars equipped with the early AJ26 engine, Nikasil bore coating (you maybe familiar with the term as BMW used it too) and various things like throttle body that are different to the 2000-2002 AJ27 version. If I was looking for a good one it'd have to be the last year of production, 03' to you guys in the USA. They usually had all the bells and whistles, if you can find an R1 version, they came with BBS wheels, Brembo brake package and sports suspension. They also have the later morse timing chains and metal timing parts, basically a later 4.2 timing on a 4.0 engine.

 

Nice e36! Welcome. While the xjr is definitely faster than an e38, I can't say that I think it's much sportier. It's still pretty softly sprung, with very long hood and trunk. You can certainly hustle it around, but I wouldn't call it a terribly sporty experience. It's definitely more luxury sport than sport luxury

 

Thank you, the '03 having the updated timing chain guides / tensioners is of significant interest. That's the big tax on E38s, too, and one of the reasons I got the E32 over an E38 initially. And Quadcammer - I don't necessarily need it to be sportier than an E38 - just better than the current E32, which is far, far behind an E38, and especially worse than an E38 Sport.

Heh, I'm obviously capable of doing the guides, but just kind of war weary right now. In addition to swapping the motor in the E36 in December I ALSO replaced one of the heads in the Escalade (literally my 4th time having one or both heads off that thing). I was already leaning toward keeping a BMW motor in the E36, but that experience with the Escalade AT THE SAME TIME completely soured me on doing an LS swap (also, you don't get AC with an LS swap, and this is still my daily). Funny enough, the E36 and the Escalade both had their respective issues about a week apart, and I got them both started again on the same day. Haha - it's occurred to me I keep cars too long, but I generally prefer the devil I know to the one I don't.

I frequently tell people that an old luxury car is often a bigger "luxury" than a new one; the corollary being that if you can't do the work yourself, you probably don't have any business buying one. I LOVE dailying these striking old cars - excited to track down a good 2003 that will at least save me some amount of headache.

Thanks - I'll keep you posted on what I find!

 

Welcome! I'm up in Georgetown and currently have 2 XJRs, one 2001 and another 2000 that's nearly done getting an LS3 swap. Many years ago I had an 2000 E38 and I think the Jag is better. I've always liked the E32 7-series. The 2001 XJR will be for sale soon as I don't need three vehicles (two of them XJRs, nice cars as they are) for one person...

 

LOL - I know someone in the area starting to look for one!

Can you share any details on the '01 you will be listing? Color, miles, maintenance history, etc? Thanks!

 

I'll send you a PM...

 

The "best" XJR is probably the 2003 for the mechanical reasons mentioned above. But the nicest interior was the 1998 XJR. The wood grain is a deep brown, almost black. I don't think any other models had that wood trim, before or since, making it unique in that respect. Full disclosure: I have a '98 with the dark wood interior, so I'm probably biased.

 

Funny you mention that, I'm biased the other way...I was not a fan of the wood in my 98 XJR, looked very dull when compared to a nice warm walnut burl.

Anyway, if you can find an 03 that would be ideal. I wouldn't worry too much about finding an R1 though. I had one and liked it, but I wouldn't get hung up on it unless you're prepared to wait as they don't come up for sale too often. I actually see more XJR 100s for sale than I do R1s which is odd. Funny thing about the R1 is that some people have no clue their car even has the option. I see them listed here and there with no mention of the R1 package and when I bought mine I asked the owner if it was a real R1 before I went and looked at the car and he had absolutely no clue what I was talking about. Only R1 specific issues I had with mine were squeaky rear brakes (apparently a problem with the setup on that car and very easily bent BBS wheels. I had 3/4 straightened after I bought the car and there were no curb marks or anything, very odd. Have heard others experience similar with the 3-piece BBS setup.

I'd at least shoot for a 2000 up if you can, but with these cars its all about condition at this point. I would have no reservations buying an early car if it were low miles in good condition. Would much rather have that than a worn out late model. The mechanical issues on the early cars (timing mostly) can be easily sorted while body work, interior work, headliners, etc. can start to add up quick.

As far as BAT is concerned I wouldn't hesitate to buy from there if you find a good car. I feel that Jags are generally valued fairly on there and unless its an XJR100 or super low mile car it will go for cheap money. I would however try to look at the car before you bid. I have looked in person at two cars I was going to bid on with BAT and neither were anything close to the condition they were represented in on the auction. Funny how pictures can be so deceiving...

Best of luck, these x308s Rs are cool cars and dirt cheap for what they are. Last thing - Don't totally write-off the X350/356/358 just yet. I always preferred the 308 as well (mostly due to looks), but after I bought my first x356 last year I sold the 308 R and will never go back. The x350+ platform is just such a better car in every way. Except maybe for looks as you've already pointed out. I would still agree a nice x308 XJR is probably a better looking car.

 

Thank you - this is all excellent.

Despite being new, I've already noticed what you mention about R1s - people who own them don't know what they have.

Re: condition. This is also good confirmation of what I was starting to think about these. It's one thing to do a bunch of rehabilitation work on my E36 when they have lots of aftermarket parts support. It's been a very different experience owning the older, lower production, NOT racecar E32 7 Series, and I assumed the XJ will be similar. Good to see that confirmed.

As for X35Xs, I'd honestly prefer to NOT drive one. Lol - I'd rather NOT know what I'm missing. To a large extent I really am looking at X308s because they're such beautiful cars AND an XJR will juuuuuuust make it over my minimum performance hurdles. If I was really going for driving experience I'd probably be shopping for either a first- or second-gen CTS-V or an E39 M5. But at the end of the day this is for my wife, not me, and she (despite loud claims otherwise) is actually a very discerning car girl (she had a first-gen CTS-V for several years, which we sold when we had kid #4 and upgraded to the Escalade and which she still misses). And even at that - I have everything I could ever want in my swapped M3. An M5 would just be an effort to get 70% of that experience in a car big enough to COMFORTABLY haul the whole family.. (yeah, maybe more like 50%. My M3 is fairly far down the racecar slope, so despite being a sedan it's really not much of a family car. Unless "family car" is what you call the car you use to teach your kids to drive a stick).

We like our classic 7 Series, but have never been completely in love with it. I'm the BMW guy but it's too soft for me (an E38 Sport or the mentioned E39 M5 would be my choice), and she's NOT in love with either the brand or the car itself, but does love the modern classic vibes (which is why - despite loving it - she doesn't want to go back to the CTS-V).

What she IS in love with is X308 XJRs. She couldn't articulate why she sometimes didn't like them until I showed her an X308 side-by-side with an X358 and the light bulb came on - it was the X358s she didn't like. So X358s are out.

She also doesn't necessarily care that it must be an XJR aside from wanting the XJR wheels - though I do care. I want the maximum the factory was willing to do.

Anyway, we have a family trip coming up in a week, so I'll probably try to find one to try out (might reach out to 57loboy) after we get home from that. We've never driven one, so it would obviously be prudent to at least make sure we're not making a mistake before we get serious.

 

Understood on the 308 vs 350, the 308 is the better looking car and more of a modern classic. As for a non-XJR you're 100% right, don't even bother. Luckily the Rs come with the nearly bulletproof Mercedes 5-speed trans while the NA cars have the ZF 5-speed that is bound to fail. The XJR is just quick enough to be entertaining, the base cars not so much. I don't see any reason to buy a non-XJR 308.

If you have not driven one yet I think you'll like it based on your other vehicles. Jags have a very different feel to them and are just wonderful. When compared to BMWs they have much more character and feel a lot more special on the inside. Don't get me wrong, BMs are very nice cars and in some ways much better than Jags, but Jags have personality and a feel like nothing else. Even my 356 which is a huge leap forward from the 308 still feels like a Jag and it just can't be duplicated in something that doesnt have a RR or Bentley badge...

Definitely but the best one you can afford with great paint/interior and sort out the mechanics from there. Anything well taken care of on the outside should be decent underneath. I will stress mileage again. Try to get something with decent mileage (60k or under), these are are nearly impossible to sell with higher mileage and nobody will want it unless you give it away. Just look at the current ads on FB, Jags tend to sit for a while anyway, and with high mileage they will just sit forever with no takers.

 

There are PLENTY of reasons to buy a non-XJR and especially so with the Vanden Plas.
While not as robust as the XJR, with good and quality maintenance a Vanden Plas will
outshine an XJR in almost every department save performance. If performance was the
ONLY consideration, there are other cars that outshine the XJR by a wide margin.

 

While there are reasons to buy a non-supercharged X308, I think there are other more reliable and better built vehicles that offer a soft, quiet, comfortable ride. Without the torque of the supercharged V8, its a more normal experience.

With the exception of a slightly softer ride, in what ways does the VP "outshine" the XJR? A slightly nicer interior and softer ride? Thats about it.

For the roughly $10k to $15k that a nice XJR costs, its pretty hard to find a sedan that beats the power/performance, and handling/comfort balance of an X308 XJR. Potentially an X350 XJR

 

Well said - The 4.0 Supercharged XJR was the fastest 4-Door car in the world when it debuted in 98, and is no slouch today. Not sure you can find another 400hp 4-door sedan for the money these go for.

 

The Vanden Plas, for my money, is far more appealing in its overall appearance. The outward appearance
reflects the grace and attention to detail that speaks well to the regal Jaguar heritage. The interior is not just nicer,
it is head and shoulders "nicer". As far as the ride, it presents absolutely much more civil, quiet and plush.
Rear seat passengers regularly comment on the leg room and elegance associated with the Vanden Plas.
All of that while still maintaining a substantial degree of nimbleness and "push you back in your
seat" acceleration. I am certain that some of these examples probably no longer possess the
dynamics that were apparent when they were newer, however those dynamics can be re-attained
with proper care and attention. It is quite possible that some members, such as yourself, feel the
additional care and attention needed to maintain proper supercharger function as well as the
additional stresses which decrease various mechanical longevity is justified by the minimal
performance gain, I, would not be one of them. Truly, if one is focused on vehicle performance
and blind to other factors, the Jaguar XJR would not be their first choice.

 

Interesting. The outside appearance is identical save for accessories like grilles, exhaust tips, and wheels. If you think the extra length adds greatly to the look, well thats subjective and your call. To say that a VP "reflects the grace and attention to detail that speaks well to the regal Jaguar heritage" while an XJR of the same year doesn't is just patently ridiculous however. They are trim levels of the same car.

Now, moving to the interior. The differences are different but similar appearing wood trim w/rear picnic tables, better quality seat leather, **** carpet, and a longer rear footwell. While those differences are meaningful, its hard to say thats "head and shoulders." The overall appearance is very similar with the same dash, overall design, headliner, driver compartment space, etc. I will acknowledge that the leather in the VDP is slightly better and it goes all the way around the seat. The primary benefit, however, is to the rear seat passenger.

Mechanical longevity is a mixed bag. The supercharger adds some complexity, but the eaton style blowers are pretty reliable units. Common things like coolant hoses, tensioners, etc are issues across the board. The naturally aspirated car has the flawed transmission (a bigger job than removing and rebuilding the supercharger), plastic thermostat housing, etc. Overall, i don't think one is any more reliable than the other.

The minimal performance gain is interesting. The xjr has an additional 90 hp and nearly 100lb ft of torque. Thats approximately a 30% increase. Funny how some nicer seat leather and **** carpet is "head and shoulders" above, yet 30% increase in power is minimal. hmm.

The x308 is not the end all be all of performance. But when combined with all that regal jag heritage, decent handling, and a comfy ride, its a very nice package.

Look, same team and all that, but cheerleading the trim you own while disparaging others is not cool since, after all, its the same basic car.

 

Not to be pedantic, but "if one is focused on vehicle performance and blind to other factors" - you wouldn't be buying a street car. No XJR - and very nearly no sedan of any kind - would be on any list of the sort.

I feel like I've fairly clearly articulated the other "performance" options. At the risk of further expounding the point, I'll point out that the E39 M5 I'd consider the top "performance" candidate for our new family car is still a soft, heavy, lumbering car compared to my M3, which is nearly 1000 pounds lighter with nearly as much power, and is fairly far down the path to full racecar. And yet, still very tame compared to an actual racecar.

Compromise is a dirty word to some. But "compromise" is having your cake, and eating it too.

The attraction of an XJR is truly the whole package. The classic design, the merits of the base car plus the upgrades the R delivers over the base (power and handling both) without losing sight of the luxury feel and comfort.

There are people for whom a Vanden Plas is ideal. I'm afraid I am not one of those people.

 

Loving the E36!! I have an itch for an s52 99-00 z3 m roadster. Might be time to scratch it.

Anyways, I love the x308 xjr.
It has lots of character
looks better than any sedan of the time period.
You don't see them on the roads. Especially xjr's. Much less r1 package and or xjr 100 cars.
Love the supercharger whine
Fast enough-can be made faster.

 

I am quite certain an XJR is the cat's meow for some and I have no issue with that.
Appearance differences are quite evident to the discerning. eye. Yes, the grill is different,
the mirrors are not chrome, the Exhaust extensions, and the wheels, not to mention the overall
geometry of the car compared to the LWB. Now, if those things are not at all important to an
owner or perspective buyer, surely I would concede the idea of "minor" differences. Those
differences are not so minor to my way of thinking and again, the interior differences are
quite noticeable to the trained eye. Yes, I would choose the Vanden Plas any day of the week.