I've beat this topic around in this forum....I've gotten great suggestions, but still no solution. I'm running out of ideas.

The Problem: no cold start - turns over, will not fire. If I'm lucky enough to get it to fire, it runs great (perfect), and will start again no problem, at least until the car has sat for over 6-7 hours. Hot start is A-OK. There are no codes ... except once a code came up saying "running lean, bank 1". I'm quite certain the problem is not lost compression. when running, the car idles so smooth that you can hardly tell it's running.

Solution #1: I replaced the coolant temp sensor. Great suggestion from this forum .. made perfect sense .. didn't work.

Solution #2: import mechanic #1 thought it was the main relay. Turns out he was wrong. I have several extra relays (tried swapping several), and I'm quite convinced it has nothing to do with relays.

Solution #3: had fuel system diagnosis (import mechanic #2). They concluded the problem is not fuel - no abnormal pressure loss after sitting overnight. He replaced a rubber gasket in the air intake (thinking the problem was air) - thought they fixed it. Turns out he was wrong. I had suspected a bad fuel pump check valve (another suggestion from forum), but if it's maintaining fuel pressure, then that's probably not it. Also, priming the fuel system with several key turns does not help.

Solution #4: I bought a replacement MAF sensor (which also includes the air temp sensor) $300 wasted.

Solution #5: ???

Any and all ideas are welcome. Thanks in advance.

 

test post....since I wrote a book on this only to see the stupid error message when sent[:@]

 

yr?, but lets try this, common cold start issue is fuel fouling of the plugs and washing of the oil film off the rings, and cylinder wallsleading to loss of compression. no fire=no start..no compression=no start
we start these all the time by going into clear flood, press gas pedal all the way to the floor before turning the key to start(this shuts off the injectors) crank until it sounds like it might start then let up slightly to say 70-80% of full pedal travel. continue to crank not letting up on the key until it starts, its alittle bit of learned experience and owners look at us strangly after we start their cars and drive into the shop. After being towed in cause they cant get to start. The only time we usually cant start them is on the older nicaseal blocks, and that because theyre alittle more succeptable to bore wear and the fuel washes the oil film off the low tension rings and cylinders walls which cause a loss of compression. I then usually pull the plugs on the drivers side(easier), clean them and squirt engine oil into the cylinders, and reassemble and do the same proceedure to start. I usually get half the engine to fire which is enough to get oil splashed up on the passenger cylinder to restore compression and itll fully starts. Usually the reason this is caused is from dirty injectors and or deposits on the valves and chambers that absorb the initial fuel to start, then with more cranking and fuel it drips off the valves, washers down the oil from and wets the plugs. I clean the injection system running the engine solely on cleaner through the fuel rails. clean the throttle body, part load breather, then run the enhine normally on gas, but with a high pressure wand of induction cleaner to remove oil and deposits from the intake manifold, ports and valves. hopes this helps and isnt a repeat of another techs recommendation already since this is the 2nd time I just typed it........

 

thanks for the reply....sorry - forgot year/model....it's a 98 XJR.

tonight I replaced the plugs still nothing. I tried your suggestion several times. I may not have the touch, but it's not working either. Just keeps turning. The weird thing is .. . sometimes it will fire (usually with my wife's lucky touch) - and then it will start no problem until the engine cools back down (ie., overnight). Now, however, it won't fire at all, and will sit until I tow it again ... probably to have another local tech scratch his head. Unfortunately there is no jaguar dealer in my city. Any other suggestions??

I'll try your suggestion again tomorrow -but unfortunately it doesn't seem to be working.

 

If you are fortunate enough, this time when your guy checks for fuel pressure he will find none. Burned negative terminal on fuel pump link lead.

 

This may sound strange, but have you had the battery load tested? The symptoms are consistent with a battery that is low amperage after sitting awhile. These cars will not start with low amps,the low voltagesensor circuits are very sensitive. You could also have a restricted fuel filter or air filter. Look very closely at the intake plumbing for air leaks, and attach a vacuum guage to a hose onthe intake manifoldand see if you get about 21 inches of vacuum.

 

JT AND OLD, PROBLEM IS ITS A COLD START ISSUE ONLY ACCORDING TO DESCRIPTION, AND UNLESS IM WRONG, BOTH OF YOUR SUGGESTIONS WHILE THEY CAUSE SAID ISSUES, WOULD DO IT ON BOTH COLD AND HOT START. ONCE IT STARTS IT FIRES FINE AFTERWARDS, YOU GUYS KNOW THE CARDINAL RULE ON CLEANING THROTTLE OR INJECTION FLUSHES, ONLY DO WHEN THE ENGINE IS AT OPERATING TEMP OR ITS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO FIRE IT COLD WITH CARB CLEANER IN THE INTAKE, AND OR INJECTION CLEANER HOOKED INTO THE FUEL RAIL. 2 THINGS I WOULD DEFINTILY DO IF MINE, CHANGE OIL AND ADD A CAN OF ENGINE RESTORE(WORKS WONDERS ON THE EARLY V8S TO EQUALISE COMPRESSION FROM THE CRAPPY BORE MATERIAL), AND DO THE FULL INJECTION FLUSH, WITH INDUCTION CLEANING TOO, TB AND PART LOAD BREATHER.SINCE THIS IS REALLY A MAINTENANCE ITEM, YOUR NOT THROWING MONEYAWAY IF YOU DO IT AND IT DOESNT WORK LIKE THE MAFS.....

 

ANOTHER THING you can do is this, if you dont think your getting fuel and dont have a gauge to verify,(you can depress the shraeder valve on the fuel rail as a quik test, it will spray up if pressurized) remove the 2 8mm bolts on the air intake tube, and when it wont start pour a small(shot glass) amount of gas in the throttle body, put the tube back over the throttle body and try starting again......NOTE*** NEVER, EVER USE STARTING FLUID, YOU WILL BLOW THE INTAKE OFF THE ENGINE...(LEARN FROM MY EXPERIENCE AND DONT TRY THIS AT HOME)LOLLLL

 

Thanks guys. I'm relatively inexperienced with auto repair issues, so bear with me if I don't make sense or sound naive.

JTO - I would have to agree with Brutal that your suggestion should also effect warm/hot starts, but I could be wrong.

oldmots - fuel filter is very new. air filter was just cleaned. I have checked the air intake plumbing several times for leaks. The was a small crack at the resonator I've sealed it with poxy, and I don't think that's the problem, but I could be wrong about that as well. I'm interested in your battery load idea, b/c as I understand it, you need more battery "juice" at cold start than for warm/hot start. I'll at least have it checked.

BRUTAL - The oil has been changed (after the problem started, didn't help). I have not had any recent throttle or injection flushes prior to this problem. As to whether it's getting fuel or not, I should mention this: when I changed the plugs last night, the old plugs I took out reeked like fuel (most likely from 6-10 attempts at starting) - this tells me that fuel is getting there (I think). Also I should mention a brief history: I replaced the engine in this car recently (with another 98 XJR engine, 75K miles) - I had the compression checked on the "new" engine prior to purchase - the compression was excellent (sorry, don't remember the figures) - and the way the car runs (very nicely) is consistent with good compression. this cold/start problem has been there since Day#1 after engine replacement (howevever, it has gotten worse. before it would always start, usually 3rd try on cold start). I'm not sure if that info helps at all, but I thought worth mentioning. I used Restore several times on my old engine (as it was dying, it helped greatly) - I think, or more accurately, HOPE, that the issue is not related to compression. The last mechanic that had my car really thought the problem was air related.
anyways, I'm going out now to clean the part load breather orifice (I think that's what you meant??) - I also plan to try your shot glass suggestion - if for anything, to at least be able to drive it to the shop.

Let me know if anyone can think of anything else - if not, many thanks for the suggestions. I'll post the resolution to this saga when I have one.

BTW....when writing a "book" , such as this, I always copy the text before sending - just to avoid an ARRGGGGG!!!

 

oh yeah.....what's TB??

 

sorry tb is throttle body, if your old plugs reeked of fuel, I would have to definitly say youre fuel fouling. And add a qt of engine restore, I recommended this and still do because of the nikasil blocks. We even used to have to run a blow by test back when these cars where new throught he full load breather, if it failed it got a new engine, but mostly to record #s for Jaguar and then again in the future to see if the ring seal and cylinder walls where holding up. I meen you may just be dealing with injectors that have a crappy spray pattern and poor atomization that makes it very hard to light off when the engine is cold, and this is why I recommend the injection flush throught the rails with the fuel pump shut off, and if theyre deposits on the intake valves that are abosrbing the fuel when first started cold it then drips off. It worse when cold since the vlave deposits tend to dry out when sitting overnight, and as I was pointing out when cleaning a throttlebody and doing and injection system flush, you have to do it when the engine is at operating temp. If not its almost impossible to start becuse you dont have the heat to help with vaporization of what youre trying to burn. Hope this cleared up some confusion.

 

My suspicion was based on personal experience. You can find similar anecdotes if you search Jag-Lovers X300 for poster "momo", or Roadfly XK8 for poster "Deshan", both were in spring/summer of '07 if memory serves.Deterioration of the pump link lead connection can limit pump voltage and therefore pump output, and this symptom can first show up on cold starts. It will eventually lead to the pump not running at all.

You said the pressure had been tested: but if it does not get above 20 psi when primed, the engine won't start. If you're lucky enough to get the engine started, now the pump is seeing system voltage (14 V) and has a better chance of making normal pressure.

Maybe this has nothing to do with your problem, but it fits the symptoms unless the guy who checked your pump made sure it had correct fuel pressure, not just some fuel pressure.I don't do random guesses.

 

JTO thanks. How does one diagnose and/or fix this? (i.e., Burned negative terminal on fuel pump link lead). In other words, I don't exactly know where the link lead is..

 

Test fuel pressure, if you are not getting 40psi nominal and the car won't start, you are on the right track. If you are getting that much and the car won't start, that ain't it.

The link lead is inside the fuel tank, plugged onto the pump. The negative terminal and the spade on the fuel pump it connects to will be burnt black. Tank has to come out for access, so you don't go there unless you have prior confirmation.

 

just called the guy who checked my fuel pressure - he claimed about 43 psi. Back to the drawing board?

what about cam / crank sensors? I would think this would usually trip a code, but is it possible??

 

43 psi when the car was cold and the engine wouln't start? Than it ain't a fuel pressure problem.

 

does anyone think it could be the crankshaft, or camshaft position sensors causing a no-cold-start? I just want to know if it at all makes sense before I waste another $300+ on this pieceO'**** car.

 

okay now I =know why you asked about the cam sensor, and spark tester, so if the crank sensor is bad you can ck the ac signal with a multimeter, same with cam and you can monitor with any decent scanner that shows datastreams. also you can buy a spark testor from Harbor freight for $20 for a selection of 3 that does different setups. How do I know...I just saw them tonight when I was looking for other stuff. But I usually just pull the coils up when cranking and listen for spark popping, its pretty pronouced when you pull it up from the plug and creat a gap large enough that it still fires. you alsao need a noid light to check that your getting signal to fire injectors from the ecu, these have sharp pins that you back probe the connectors at the injectors and the flash with each signal. the mechanic your working with should have everyone of these tools, um or find someone else cause these are basic diag tools for fuel injection systems

 

thanks that helps. I had originally ruled out spark, as it started OK when warm/hot, but now I'm not so sure (b/c of the fuel drenched plugs) - worth checking. I have heard, at least in other cars, that bad cam and/or crank sensors can cause intermittent starting issues, sometimes without triggering a code. I don't have a multimeter - I do have an OBDII with leve data stream, but I'm not sure if it gives info on the sensors.

 

Hah dude thats how I felt whenI bought mine (98 xj8) back in Feburary right before cars all dropped like $3-5k in an instant. Mine went from $8888 to about $6500 in a month. That sucked! You can literally buy an 04 with >50k miles for the price they sell some of the 01s for, its quite amusing. Im even starting to like the ford look a lot better, my 98 just looks tolate 80s-early 90s to me inside and out.

You will just keep spending on the vehicle every other month or so, in the end replacing almost everything under the hood.

My suggestion, sell it, get an 05+. I kept mine and just bought another (got an 04 for $12.5k locally, has given no troubles for 2.5 months, much better car all around, huge revision!) These oldercars (x308)will only get worsefrom what Ive noticed,my old 97 (4.6L) Lincoln towncar has over 190k miles (110k more than my 98 xj8) and has only been worked on twice other than checkups/regular fluid changes, for a snapped $30 belt and a new AC compressor last year. Go figure! BEST part is, It can be 20F outside and I can just go outside and pop it on and drive off if I wanted, presenting no hardcoreBS engine damage! That is seriously priceless.

Both fords, I justthink they just skimped way too much on these early xjs in my opinion all around. To have all these people doing complete engine swaps at like 60k miles just seems hands down hilarious to me. That should tell you something about quality of the early models.

Hope it works out for you man! Yes x308 98-01is a money pit, especially reaching 10yrs. **Im not tech, andI know very little about automechanics, this is just my outlook on what ive experienced from reading on here and talking to the jaguar techs 20 mins way

**EDIT- I drove the ole 98 this evening after writing this earlier, and i gotta admit I stil really enjoy it! They are really fun once you get some of the faults corrected what can I say. I really do enjoy the apperance inside and out, I guess not driving it for a while made me forget!