XJ XJ8 / XJR ( X308 ) 1997 - 2003

Considering Purchase of XJR - Advice please

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  #61  
Old 03-17-2015, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by j4m
When replacing it with the Arnott coil-over suspension, how does this effect the CATS system?
When I did the conversion on my Lincoln, Arnott included instructions on how to re-work the wiring for the electronic shocks to "fool" the systems into thinking that they were still connected and functional, which, of course, they are not.

So, the short answer is that with the coil over conversion, the electronically adjustable shocks are no longer there or active and you don't get system failure lights on the dash due to the re-wiring.
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Old 03-17-2015, 02:56 PM
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It is real wood. There were some cars that were produced with poor quality wood finishing and the wood cracked badly. I don't remember what year(s) was affected but you could find threads about this on this forum. If the wood isn't badly cracked by now, the car wouldn't be one of these cars. You can't miss the defective ones when you see them. It's obvious. Because the cars are getting older, it's not uncommon to see a piece of wood or two with some cracks. The wood trim on one of my rear doors has a crack, which I plan to have corrected.

Madera Concepts does excellent repair/refinishing on wood trim. That's who I'll use to repair my door trim. Here's their website:
Automotive Wood Restoration
 
  #63  
Old 03-18-2015, 12:06 PM
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Not impressed at all ....

Let me say last week when I looked at the 2002 XJR there was an 2005 XJ8 on the lot. It had a transmission problem so I couldn't take it out of the parking spot it was in to get a good look at it or take it for a drive. So, I've been looking for another one locally I could test drive.

Okay, so yesterday there was a local car - a 2004 XJ8 for sale that I was able to see up close and take for test drive. It had about 90K miles on it.

First impressions from the outside ... eh, I mean the body lines looked nice from the outside, a very "safe" design, nothing earth shattering or extraordinarily head turning but classy. But then again it's a 2004 model and there have been refinements in design since then.

Now I sat inside. This is where my expectation fell short. First and foremost I would expect a $60-80K car new should hold up much better with only 90K miles. Lets see... The drivers sun visor was falling down, some of the plastic pieces were loose. The leather seats really didn't look special or that much better than you find in any car with leather seats. The doors felt too light when I closed them, perhaps this is the effect of the all aluminum body they now use.

Here is my thought about wood grain dashes. Back years ago before every car manufactures was doing "wood" dashes, the top-tier cars, like the Bentley, Jaguars, Mercedes, and BMW's, all seemed to have some sort of special cache to them. But now that even Kia's and Honda's and Toyota's, and such, can be ordered with realistic "fake" wood trim, it makes the upper tier cars seem "me-too". So, my point is, sitting in the driver's seat didn't leave me with an impression of singularity or something only Jaguar has. The steering wheel was wrapped in leather and wood, but again ... eh... I have that in my 2003 Kia Sorento.

In fact, my 2003 Kia Sorento is probably just as rich looking inside as the Jaguar. I mean, I've got the wood trim, leather everywhere, leather and wood wrapped steering wheel. All the options the Jag had, my Kia Sorento has! - Power moon roof with retractable shade, auto headlights, power everything, 4 wheel ABS, auto dimming rearview mirror with homelink buttons. Heated seats, Heated winshild washer fluid button. The list goes on, and on, and on...

So my point being ... I was hoping I would get into the Jaguar and be amazed at something that I don't already have. But my Kia has it all. Okay the only thing it doesn't have is ... the Jaguar logo. So I started thinking... this Jaguar was like $60k or something like that back in 2004. My Sorento cost me $27K, in 2003 and it's just as luxurious. People don't believe me when I say that because it's a Kia, but it's true.

BUT here is the kicker ... My Sorento (BTW, I'm the original owner), NOTHING is breaking, or falling off. In fact, the interior looks almost as good as it did the day I bought it. I thought to myself... WHY can't a Jaguar hold up much better with even less miles?

So then I had to slap myself out of the trance I was in, knowing it was a JAGUAR. Ohhhhh... a Jag, Ah, the allure of a Jag... Okay, Okay.. it's time for me to wake up and face reality..

NO, it's JUST a car, like any other car, with a fancy brand name. So I stood back and tried to look at the car rationally. It's got four seat covered in leather. Big deal, most cars have that nowadays - Even my Sorento. Okay it's got wood trim, and a leather/wood steering wheel .. eh, big deal .. so does my car. I'm trying hard to separate being blinded by the brand, and looking at the car for what it really is - Just A car.

Okay ... so then I took it for a test drive. I have to say the V8 was VERY smooth and accelerated amazing fast. Before i knew it I was going 50MPH, and I was like... Woah! I'm already going 50MPH! .. So I was impressed by the engine..

... And then I felt it - The transmission. It was starting to shift weird, and I didn't like it. It seemed as though it might have a transmission problem. Then, I remembered the other 2005 XJ8 at the other lot also had a transmission problem. Hummm... not good.

My Sorento for example has 123K miles and has zero, nada, zilch, zip, problems with the engine or transmission during it's whole life. It shifts smooth nd quick. So why are the Jaguars having problems at only 90K miles? Maybe it is neglect and poor maintenance from previous owners perhaps? But the same symptoms from two Jags? Hummm, leaves me thinking they may not be as good as they claim to be.

Now for the steering and ride quality.....

Ah, yes the Jaguar ride quality. Okay, so it was cushy smooth. But ya know what? it wasn't THAT much different than in many old Crown Victoria Taxi cabs I've been in. It was only a tad bit smoother over the bumps than my Sorento! Humm... So needless to say, I liked the ride quality, it was nice but I wasn't $60-$80 thousand dollar impressed. Now the steering. I was told the Jaguar has the most elegant, effortless power steering available. Eh? Not quite. In fact in my Sorrento I have speed sensitive power steering and it is so smooth and so easy and effortless, I can turn it with one finger, but at the same time it is tight and controlled when it needs to be. So steering the Jaguar didn't leave me with an impression of something greater or better than I already have.

The car seem very light and not as planted, and perhaps that may be due to the all aluminum frame. In comparison to the 2002 XJ8 I drove last week, this 2004 seemed much lighter.

All in all, the 2004 Jaguar seemed like the British version of a Buick - Big and floaty. There wasn't anything that stood out from other cars either. Once I was able to get myself out of the Jaguar brand trance I wasn't impressed. So needless to say, I will be crossing the 2004> model years off my list.

I guess if I had come from driving a Honda Civic, or another low-end car without options or luxury, I may have been captivated by the 2004 Jaguar. However, having many luxury items in my previous car left me to wonder what is so special about the Jaguar?

... I'm still trying to find the answer, if there even is one, beyond the Jaguar brand name.
 

Last edited by j4m; 03-18-2015 at 01:46 PM.
  #64  
Old 03-18-2015, 02:04 PM
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Did you ever get to try out that 2002 XJR?

I have only driven an X350 V8 VDP once, it drove nice but I wasnt that interested in buying it.
 
  #65  
Old 03-18-2015, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 80sRule
Did you ever get to try out that 2002 XJR?

I have only driven an X350 V8 VDP once, it drove nice but I wasnt that interested in buying it.
Yeah, I test drove the 2002 XJR at the first dealership. But it needed too much work. The <2003 models are nice car because at least you get unique, vintage styling that's less of a "me-too" car than the 2004> models. Plus the steel frame it's more solid.
 
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Old 03-18-2015, 05:34 PM
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It definitely sounds like you've found a couple of less than ideal examples. That said.. The only thing in my 03 xjr on the interior, are three burned out backlight bulbs, a semi broken cupholder, and maybe three tiny hairline cracks on the wood trim finish. That's with 112k on the clock. Shifts smooth, and runs flawless. Which means it's coming down to prior ownership, as it does with every model. Thankfully I never had to try to choose between mine and the 04s.

You are right though, I had an 05 Amanti that I bought brand new. It had nice leather, fully loaded. Had nice trim, and as a new car goes, was as expected. Yeah it was "only" a Kia but it was a nice car. My bmw has a very similar feel, and it's an 00 model. But my biggest satisfaction is that I have a car that has zero squeaks and creaking at 190k miles. I can't say that I would've ever said the same of the Kia had I kept it that long. I have zero in the jag either. But the quality of sine other manufacturers has improved for sure. So in comparing a 60k car to one half as expensive, for me, came down to this...

When I look at my jag from outside, I have a sense of pride in ownership, something that wears off for most common cars that people see every day. Obviously there are some exceptions in every line, but in general. Also knowing that chances are the overall package I have is not exactly what another cheaper car had. My Kia sure didn't have almost 400 hp under the hood, even at 35k. And even if I had kept it, I don't think it would've agreed as gracefully. With the right example, it's a lot easier to enjoy the car, instead of the flaws that stand out that you'll focus on. I'd even go so far as to suggest finding someone in here, or somewhat close with a GOOD example, and go see and drive. Then you may be able to decide for certain if a better example is something you can hokd out for. The right one can make a world of difference in impressions. Sounds like they night be fewer and farther between, where you are.

I just know where my eyes go when I park in a sea of equally-aged cars in a lot, and I'm good with that
 
  #67  
Old 03-18-2015, 08:07 PM
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^ Yeah, you're probably right. But if I was going to, let's say, restore a Jaguar, - and I say that with the expectation that putting money into it to keep it running is much like restoring it - I would choose the 2003 and earlier body styles. It would appear to me that I'd be restoring more of a classic Jaguar than the more modern look of 2004 and newer body styles.

I have my sights on some out of state, but by the time I factor in transportation costs and such, the cost of the car way above what I want to spend.
 
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Old 03-18-2015, 09:20 PM
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I've said this before and some disagree with me but in my opinion, there is no comparison between the interior quality of the X308 and the X350. The X308 looks to have better quality design and materials. The X308 is sumptuous. The X350, at least the earlier ones, looks and feels like a less expensive car in comparison. There is more plastic. And I also believe the ride quality of the X308 is better. Also the styling of the body is as good as it gets on the X308. It's a work of art. The X350 not so much.

I haven't driven a later model X350 so maybe they got better in the later years. I know a lot of people love those cars and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'm just madly in love with the X308 and no car really compares. Except an XJS, of course!
 

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Old 03-19-2015, 10:38 AM
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The XJS has definitely grown on me over time and in a few years if I have more space, I'd like to have a late straight six convertible. I like my XKR more and wouldn't sell it to have an XJS, but I'd love to supplement it.
 
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Old 03-19-2015, 10:53 AM
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There was an X-350, 2004 XJR sitting right next to my car at the dealership when I bought my 2001 XJR, same color as mine, black.

When I first saw it, I thought it was a Toyota or some other look alike car that is on the roads these days. There was no comparison.

The 308 is beautiful and stylish. You can see Sir William's mark on it.

The 350 was built to appeal to a larger audience who wanted more interior space.

That is the difference between a car that is designed by an engineer and one that is designed by an artist.
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Old 03-19-2015, 02:06 PM
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Maybe he should stick to KIAs!
 
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Old 03-19-2015, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Jhartz
Maybe he should stick to KIAs!
If it were me I would buy a Prius, just to be safely in the mundane zone.
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  #73  
Old 03-19-2015, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Jhartz
Maybe he should stick to KIAs!
I was just using my KIA as an example that one should expect more quality out of a $60-80K Jaguar than what you get. Not that a luxury KIA is the end-all, be-all car. You could compare the 2004> Jags it to most any mid range cars with comparable luxury options (leather, wood, nice sound system blah, blah) and the newer Jag really doesn't stand out or have anything unique. Not even the body style is unique. At 100K miles it falls apart like any cheaply made car, and that is disappointing.

At least the <2003 models has unique and timeless styling. But even that model was made with some cheap plastic parts that break (tensioners) and bad transmission (on the NA models at least).

I don't think it's too much to ask for an $80 grand luxury car to have better build quality than a $30K import. Well, maybe the bean counters figure to build it inferior, and price it high and they'll make more profit on the initial sale, and service. Who knows.
 
  #74  
Old 03-20-2015, 12:33 AM
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That was definitely an impression I got looking at the 04's on up, really. My first thought was "yep, really does seem like it's a Ford with a hood ornament." The 308 just had more character to me. I can honestly say though, that even with little things, I find that lots of cars have little things like that. The cooling system in a 3-series BMW was that way, notoriously fragile. As was the rear subframe, to the point there was actually a major service bulletin back in the day. And those encompassed the entire 3-series line-up through the M3's, so we're talking the same sorta scale on the wallet when new. My guess is that they thought when they first introduced those bits in the 99s or whenever, they hadn't forseen the failure of those parts quite as readily. That's why you see the three generations of tensioners over time, just because it took a couple years to go "man we're seeing a lot of these original parts breaking. Maybe we should redesign them to last longer".

It's one of the really nice parts of the car to me. I close my door, and it closes. With a thud. Like a real door SHOULD. Reminds me of my dad's old Benz 280 or whatever it was, 70's era. Solid.

In the end though, it's not a decision we can make for you. The right car would likely sway you into driving away with it, whereas a poor example would justifiably leave you with doubts. That's part of why I didn't hesitate when I found mine. 03 XJR. I saw the car and it looked sharp, but then I went home, came online, and..well, this site, actually lol. Read a bit about the model year differences, and realized that reliability-wise, was probably one of the better models in the X308 series to look at. The "better" transmission, and newer tensioners, and water pump, etc. So then I looked at the car itself in more detail, to make sure it hadn't been beaten to death. Even the better parts can be thrashed to death, just like I'm sure there are people with the NA cars who never had a trans fail if they pampered it. Mine was found for 10k, and had I paid cash, could've walked out a grand cheaper. But the good ones aren't a dime a dozen, so it might be a case where it doesn't pan out just yet, but who knows, maybe down the road a nice clean, well-maintained example will fall your way. Either way, best of luck with whichever way you decide, and hopefully it works out!
 
  #75  
Old 03-20-2015, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by j4m
... First and foremost I would expect a $60-80K car new should hold up much better with only 90K miles....
Just to echo what a lot of other folks said here, these are all (x308s and x350s) getting to be older used cars, so the condition of any one of them is going to depend enormously on what sort of care the previous owner took of it. Hold out for a nice one, especially one with a maintenance history if you can get it. It takes patience, but good ones do come on the market every now and then.

(But if you want to trash the design of the crappy-*** fragile cupholder or the long-term durability of the headliner, I'm with you all the way, brother. Good lord, that cupholder....)
 
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Old 03-20-2015, 12:32 PM
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People sometimes interpret that a $300k car is better built than a $30k car. I actually argue that the $30k car may have refinements in design and execution the $300k one doesn't have.

A more expensive car may not have the strong basics due to lower production, or hand building. I still feel that the XJ is quite good considering the money put into development, and quantity produced. They made 120k ish X308s over many different trims and specs over 6 model years. According to sales figures, Kia made 7543 Sorentos just last month (Kia Reports January 2015 Sales Figures | Kia News Blog). I really hope the Kia is decently screwed together!

I'm not trying to make excuses for Jaguar but they are a low volume manufacturer. I love Lotus Esprits but even though the era I like was $65-70k new, a $10k new same era Honda Civic was honestly a much better screwed together and reliable vehicle. Oh well, odd rambling over lol.
 
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Old 03-20-2015, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Patioboater
Just to echo what a lot of other folks said here, these are all (x308s and x350s) getting to be older used cars, so the condition of any one of them is going to depend enormously on what sort of care the previous owner took of it. Hold out for a nice one, especially one with a maintenance history if you can get it. It takes patience, but good ones do come on the market every now and then.

(But if you want to trash the design of the crappy-*** fragile cupholder or the long-term durability of the headliner, I'm with you all the way, brother. Good lord, that cupholder....)
I think what Jaguar intended was for the headliner to keep passenger's heads warm by being a forced hat.

And the cupholder is actually beverage catapult, you get to pick where it goes by driving dynamics!
 
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Old 03-20-2015, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Jhartz
Maybe he should stick to KIAs!
I was thinking the exact same thing. His Kia may have a wheezing four-banger compared to the Jags supercharged powerplant but the Kia is probably better (in his mind) because it has a talking seatbelt reminder or something.

The condition of any 10+ old year vehicle will have far more to do with the owner than about the initial build quailty.
 

Last edited by Amphicar770; 03-20-2015 at 12:57 PM.
  #79  
Old 03-20-2015, 01:22 PM
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Oh, those cup holders! Not great but better than nothing like I have in my XJS. Or don't have. I live in the Seattle area and it's required to drink coffee while you're driving here. I like my coffee extra hot. Do you know how hard it is to constantly change my scorching hot coffee cup from hand-to-hand because I never remember to ask for a sleeve for my coffee?! I wish my XJS had the poorly designed cup holders my XJR has.

Now the headliner is something else. What were they thinking??? Terrible design. I replaced mine so all is good but I would expect a headliner not to practically sag to the floorboard on a premium car like a Jag after only ten years or so. Bad Jaguar, bad!
 
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Old 03-20-2015, 07:20 PM
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No, seriously, the Genesis is quite a buy. (Until folks realize it's a ^^^^ing KIA).

Dude, find a real car: then we will suggest what you need to do to make it perfect. Commitment . . . ?
 


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