I must've gotten spoiled. Either the previous owner of mine replaced mine already, or..for some reason it hasn't sagged as of yet. Not even a hint. Maybe I'll have to go full carbon fiber replacement if it ever falls down lol.

 

Actually you're wrong. The '03 Sorento has a 3.5L DOHC 24 valve V6 with about 200HP, decent torque at low revs - 217 ft lbs @ 3000 RPM. Step on the gas at low revs and it will knock you back into your seat. The base XJ8 same year has 80 HP more in it's V8, but it's max torque which is only 60 ft. lbs more is at higher revs @ 4250 RPM. What surprises me it is that the '03 Sorento feels more powerful than it is and I think it's due to the low end torque. Curb weight it's only 100 lbs or so heaver than the base Xj8 for a much bigger, more spacious vehicle ... That's with a strong, steel latter frame construction with nine cross members. It also has a better built, heavy duty BorgWarner transmission with overdrive. Not to mention 4 wheel independent suspension with anti-sway bars. And that iron block aluminum head V6 is practically bullet proof. So...While it's not a "prestigious" car, nor a speed demon, its not a slouch either.

Hahahah! Yes, it does come with a seat belt reminder, and also heated windshield washer fluid, among other luxury items the Jag doesn't have ... Let's see ... 2003 XJ8 ... not so good engine design, not very robust transmission, lack-luster luxury items. Hum makes one wonder if $80,000 for a Jag is a rip off.

Oh, but you can drive down your neighborhood with the leaper on the hood so everyone "thinks" your car is special. LOL! ... when actually nobody really cares.

My question is, why can the Koreans build a better engineered car and the British can't? Maybe they assume the people who can afford an $80K car can also afford the repairs and therefore won't bitch and moan when it's in the shop all the time? A car company that is confident in their build quality to offer a 10 year 100K mile warranty and the British can't? If the Brits offered that kind of warranty on their Jaguar's they would loose so much money they'd be out of business.

Don't get me wrong I like the Jag, and may get one if the right one comes along, but please .. don't be blinded by a prestigious brand name that you forget about it's TRUE build quality, and TRUE value.

Manfred Mann should have entitled their song ... Blinded by the brand.

... Just say'n

Well.... Not necessarily.. Cars can be built with crappy engineering from the start. No matter how much you baby it, the inherent issue is still there.

But you CAN make crappy engineering worse and fail quicker with poor owner maintenance, that I agree.

 

He describes the X308 engine as, "not so good engine design" and the Jag to have "lack-luster luxury items" then compares the Jag to a Kia of all cars. But wait, there's more. Next, he reduces Jaguar owners (us) to having a need to impress our neighbors because we think our cars are special because we have fancy hood ornaments when in reality we are deluded because "nobody really cares." He then seems to determine the Kia is the better car, which is fine because everyone is entitled to draw their own conclusions. But ultimately he concludes he is still interested in buying a Jag.

I agree with others, he should stick with the Kias.

 

J4M is sounding more like a troll with every posting. A troll who drives a Kia and thinks it is the pinnacle of automotive engineering. Not worth wasting any further typing on.

 

Danny ...
The point is, Jaguars are for people with money to buy and dispose of in a few years to get the next, newest model. The company realizes that rich people don't care if car last 100K miles. The new car buyer is their target audience, not the used car market, nor the "buy and hold-on" market. All they care about is the initial impression and sale and the reputation it gives for a few years before the rich person trades it in for a new model. Quality construction is why their brand has been tainted unreliable for so many years.

I'm venting because I was so disappointed with the build quality with the ones I test drove. Its just unacceptable in such an expensive car. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate body design and aesthetics, and that owning such a beautiful looking car may mean I sacrifice a bit of quality and money out of my pocket book. But isn't that the cross roads we all come to when deciding to buy a old Jaguar?

 

The vast majority of enthusiast cars come with compromise. Expecting more money to mean better built is not usually the case. There are cars that were exceptional and expensive, such as the original Acura NSX. Most cars that are low run are not near that reliable or refined.

Whether a Jaguar, Corvette, Porsche, Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, etc. I bet a 100k mile 2003 Sorento may be still in better shape than all of those considering miles. That said, I don't necessarily know if an old Jaguar is a good choice given the way you view how ownership should be.

 

Hah, I’ve had almost every one of those issues on my 143K mile 2002 XJR! Also had the fuel pumps die, an engine mount torn in half, small coolant hose and failed thermostat, and tail light control module fry. I need to do the sway bar end link again now (got maybe 15k out of the last set?). I ended up having a friend machine some adapters so I could run the non-CATS shocks up front since I had a blown front shock and I could get 2 non-CATS shocks for half the price of one CATS shock. And, I wasn’t so sure that the other one was in good shape still.

Could you please, please give me some more info on the circuit board in the trans? I have the gearbox overheat message and hard shifting too, but mine will do it on first cold start some days even if it’s down in the 20’s(F)!

Thanks,

Mike

 

J4M:

A few suggestions for you if you want to continue this praisathon:

Kia-Forums.com :: Kia Enthusiast Forums

Kia Optima Forum

Kia News Blog + 2015 Rumors

All meant in jest, of course!

Vector

 

I completely understand old cars are going to need some sort of work. On all cars shocks/struts, bushings, tie rod ends, ball joints... hoses, clamps, etc, etc, wear out. I get that.

But what is unacceptable in such an expensive car are many other things that should hold up over time such interior build quality as "Badktty" listed in the reply above and "Beady" also confirmed the same.. such as, sunroofs breaking, speakers no longer working, headliners falling down, sun visors falling off, wood trim cracking, plastic cracking and/or falling off, and the list goes on. Engine and transmission issues.

It's not about a favoritism for Asian cars, or any other car for that matter. The point is that an $80K car should have better build quality than such cars. One would think or expect.

 

I've driven Ferraris where I thought the trim was going to break off in my hands. My dad's friend's Testarossa had the trim get kind of melty and sticky. It's stupid but it's a lot of the reality of low volume cars.

I hear that you expect more than cracking plastics and bad adhesives and such, but honestly, the fact it costs more doesn't mean they use better materials. Mercedes had a snafu in the early nineties where a more eco friendly biodegradable wiring harness insulation resulted in wiring harnesses going kaput. This was even in $120k S600/SL600 models. This was not just inconvenient but downright dangerous and $$$$ to repair.

It's like I say about high volume production, economies of scale and more extensive testing means I bet money that a Ford Focus is more extensively engineered and tested than a Ford GT.

 

I do apologize and sorry if anybody got upset from my previous comments about the Jaguar and ownership. I didn't mean for it to come across that way.

I guess in my disappointment came my blunt feelings. When I was driving to see the first car, the XJR, it was a two hour drive. I was really excited. When I saw it, I was taken back by the poor build quality. I was already prepared knowing I would have to do the timing chain and tensioners, and all probably the suspension components that wear out due to age, as we know, normal stuff all cars at 100K miles need. When I saw the car ... I was like.. Crap, now I have to fix the damn headliner? Find new wood trim? Get a new cup holder and console? Dang, find all these plastic trim peaces? Then we're driving along and I try the sunroof and I'm like ... Crap! now I have to fix the fricke'n sunroof too! I mean this is stinking ridiculous! So now the cost of getting the Jaguar to a nice condition as just gone up significantly $$$$ ..

So then he has this '05 on the lot. I get inside and same issues, but this time the transmission is busted and I can't test drive it. I'm like ... what the hell?

But anyway I digress, as I've said that before...

So anyway ... back to reply to 80'sRule ...

That's a shame to hear about the Ferrari's as they are one of my favorite cars. I think most cars today are not built with any real intention of lasting more than 5-10 years.

 

Sorry to call you out j4m, but I have had enough.

This is definitely a troll thread.

I am out of here.

Vector

 

I find it kinda funny, when a person on the internet disagrees with the philosophy of a group, and/or a person has brought to light facts that others can not dispute or deny they call that poster a troll. You're not a troll if you agree, you are a troll if you disagree.

I was sincere and very excited to become a Jaguar owner. I spent my time researching the car and even drove HOURS to see and test drive them on several occasions. That's not a troll. That a person who discovered these cars fit into the "crap but cool" bucket.

I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings and brings to the forefront facts about the car that you were blinded by. I'm sorry that you feel like calling people a troll is the only way you know how to deal with the truth, but that's not my problem.

Best of luck watching your hard earned money go down the drain into a poorly built car.

 

I feel ya on the back and forth stuff. I still say though, that if you had been treated to testing and seeing well-maintained examples, your opinion might be slightly different. Any car, low or high end, if thrashed over 10-12 years of life, is going to feel poor. The build quality feel of two cars, one at each spectrum of care, will feel quite different. As for the shortcomings of say, the tensioners and stuff, that can happen to anything. Look at all the recalls and bulletins on cars from every make and model. Ignition switches, air bags, wiring harnesses, suspension components. Yes it does make it feel that a Jag having cost twice as much from the factory shouldn't have these issues, but sometimes it's just how it goes. Internal factory testing can only show so much, but on a much smaller production run compared to the bigger numbers, it's bound to happen. Plus, you're talking a series that was only produced for 5-6 years. And if you look back through, they did upgrade tensioners halfway through, so it's not like Jaguar was resting on it's laurels after putting it together. I feel it's far from a poorly built car, but I've also got a really nice example, so how would I judge? I rarely fault a car model for the treatment it's owner gives it.

Looking up at the list that badkitty posted and echoed by beady, I shake my head. Not because they have those issues. And I don't know if they've owned their car since new. But, I can go down through the list, on my 03, and the ONLY common part I have, is that stupid cupholder. I will give you, THAT is a piece that could've used a mid-run updating. But everything else, could be attributed to a number of things. Suspension components lasting 150k miles? Rare to see a car that doesn't have worn bushings and parts after that long. And other things come into play. Maybe weather affecting the adhesive for the liners, I have no idea. But I know I don't have those issues at all, not in the least, in a car that came from CA and has 115k on it now. I'd be willing to bet there are also plenty of owners with no issues, just as much as there are people with them.

Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion, and this being the internet, that can mean any number of things. If you don't feel that it's for you at this time though, that's no harm done. I'd definitely hold out until you can at least get a first-hand view of a decent one.

 

"In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[3]"

Fits pretty well, I think. Your comments are inflammatory and you would probably be banned on a less tolerant forum.

"Crap, but cool......poorly built car." I think you qualify as one of the most blatant trolls I have seen here ever.

I don't really care what you call yourself or me, and we are happy to provide you with information.

But don't expect to get a warm reception here. We are unusually kind to newcomers and folks with differing opinions and our cars are somewhat prone to require additional, costly and complex maintenance at times.

If you want to bash Jags and praise Kia's, I simply think you my be in the wrong place.

Your comments clearly disturb some enthusiasts here and I think you have the affection we have for a unique and distinguished brand confused with the loyalty related to the value and reliability of an economy car.

I am sorry if you got your feelings hurt.

And don't ever consider buying a horse.
Vector

 

Weather and age have as much impact on a car as mileage and service history. Interior plastic in these cars is a synonym for crumble. The interior designer must have had a brother-in-law molding plastic parts (noteworthy, the S Types of the same vintage don't seem to weather as poorly).

Ford and OEM engineers (like TRW where I was) working in Europe after the purchase of Jag, LR, and Volvo always complained that Jaguar engineers sat back and sipped tea after a model introduction, whereas the Japanese and Korean were making improvement changes ever three months and canning suppliers right and left who weren't minimally six Sigma. That and the Bolshie culture of the workers at Browns Lane had an impact as much of the X308 interiors came from earlier models: by 2000 most of those problems had been worked out or fired, except the ^^^^ing plastic.

But this is ground long plowed by most aficionados.

That said: IMHO, j4M should stick to KIA! I agree with Vector, I am done.

 

Thread closed