If you can do the job yourself with the XJR folk here's help then have a go.
There's nothing to lose, really.

 

He’s basically given me 3 scenarios
1) The head gasket has a hole in it resulting in changing this = £1000 (plus additional for head skimming if required)
2) The head gasket is fine but instead there’s a crack in one of the headers, resulting in 2 new headers needed = £1200
3) The engine coolant in the oil has done damage over time results in corrosion of pistons and main block, new engine is the only option = £2000
None of this he will know till he's taken it apart.

 

Depends how attached you are to the car, and how many cars you own. If this happens to my X308, I will buy another low mileage engine, put the engine on the stand, and go at it myself (tensioners, gaskets, waterpump,...the works). I can drive something else, and take my time, making sure everything is just right. Engine swap is not a big deal.
Once the "new" one is in the car, the original goes on the stand, and I repeat the process. I intend to keep mine forever,....your situation might be different.

I will again use the math,.......new engine for 2K on the car that's worth 3K (not worth this much with the blown headgasket?). You CAN buy another one for 3K, but no guarantees that one will not develop the same problem (or worse). If you decide to keep it, you will have a 5K car that you can not sell for that, but I think it's still "safer" than buying the one you don't know. Still cheaper than buying a new car too.

Why am I talking about the engine swap? Because there are very few shops I trust, and once they start "digging" in, what guarantees do you have that the "new engine verdict" is not coming anyway? If you trust the shop, no problem......they might just replace the headgasket, and you're good to go. The difference between headgasket quote and a new engine quote is too close (IMHO), and the heads WILL need resurfacing for sure (add to that lapping of the valves, shims, etc). You said that would be "additional" to the headgasket price, which closes this gap even more. Low mileage engines are available (and some from newer cars with no tensioners/water pump issues), and it's a pretty simple swap for ANY mechanic.

That would be my reasoning in the similar situation.

 

I'm having a hard time fitting 2. cracked header with 3.coolant in water. Can your mechanic explain how those scenarios can be related?

 

My Bentley blew it's head gaskets last year & the first symptoms were a misfire from cold starts. There was no white smoke from the exhaust & what happened when they failed completely was that the combustion pressure leaked into the cooling system & basically just blew all the coolant out of the expansion tank, so the engine overheated.

Failed head gaskets don't always mean that clouds of smoke will appear in the exhaust. If you think about it, the combustion pressures in the cylinders will force hot gasses out into the cooling system, rather than suck coolant in from the lower pressure cooling system.

Head gaskets usually fail between the cylinder flame ring & the adjacent water passage, so that the combustion gasses seep out into the cooling system & over-pressurise it.

In the case of the Jag, as well as the expansion tank at the top by the bulkhead, there is also an atmosperic catchment tank right at the front & this will probably hold any coolant that was forced out under pressure-giving the impression that the car is using water but it's not leaking anywhere.

I suspect that you've had a standard head gasket failure, which is likely to just be a case of renewing the head gaskets. The most common failure place is between the flame ring & the adjacent water passages, as these are under the high combustion pressure.

I did the head gaskets myself on the Bentley & it was a long job, due to all the stuff that had to be removed. It's an easier & shorter job on the Jag as there's less stuff to remove to get at the heads. The only complication is the the cam timing, which will be lost when the heads come off & so you'll need the correct tools to set it all up again .

If the bodywork of the car is excellent with no rust & the interior is good, then it's probably worth biting the bullet & getting the gaskets replaced. You can sort mechanical problems out much easier that the creeping cancer of rust.

I did the gaskets on the Bentley myself as the garage quotes were around £5000 or more due to the huge labour charge! The required gaskets came to around £300 & the rest was 'just' 3 weeks of labour in the driveway working from 9am to 8pm...

This was the what the Bentley gasket failure looked like & you can see the clear breach of the flame ring next to the adjacent water passage:




Do you feel up to tackling the job yourself? If you got the gaskets & have the tools, then there would be plenty of help from the forum members here as some have done the job & posted threads on the subject. If I wasn't so far away on the other side of the UK, then I could lend a hand myself between work commitments...

 

My car originally used to be a rust bucket, in 2001 and 2004 Jaguar carried out warranty work on the paint. When I bought the car in 2007 the problem still persisted I have literally spent thousands having arches replaced/cut out/and rust treated, so as it stands its near showroom condition inside and out.

The car mechanically hasn’t cost me a penny in 6 years of ownership apart from a recent exhaust system and a wheel bearing a couple of years ago, I couldn’thave asked for a nicer example mechanically wise, I guess its caught up to me now.

Now the jag man said if I still have the original nikasil lined engine then it would probably be best at this point to change it to a steel lined engine, having fixed the head gasket it would be a shame that the lining then gave way.I'm thinking he's correct is every-one in agreement with this?

Ill find out which engine I have on Monday, he's checking it from the number on the engine.

If its a steel lined engine then I may as well risk repairing it though he couldn’t guarantee that the pistons or block might have corroded and would still need a new engine.

Should I replace the engine anyway save paying out and additional £400 (inspection) for disappointment or would this be an extreme case for this to happen?

I'd be more than happy if you lived closer for you to come and work on my car, I could give you a helping hand but my car knowledge is average at best. Give me a computer and that’s a different matter. But thanks for the offer anyway

End of the day I want my car running nice and new again like it always has with as close to 370BHP as possible. What would be the best option to fulfil this hope?

 

Sorry he told me a lot of information some of it I may have incorrect. He said for water to be filling a piston chamber it doesnt mean it could be the head gasket thats failed, it could be a crack in a ******** (I thought he said header), this would mean both being replaced at £100 each.

 

He sounds like my Doctor, by law he has to tell me the worst case scenario, however remote, 'you could die from this, but the probability is 10,000:1'.

OK so it's cost £400 to be informed it might be a cracked liner, or a head gasket. Best option is a replacement engine? Or are they going to take it to bits first?

£35 gets you an exhaust gas sniff test kit on ebay the fluid changes colour if present.
A set of compressions can usually confirm the weak cylinder(s).

The cracked liner theory is the 10,000:1 and so is the block/piston corrosion.

A similar vintage engine has just done a head gasket on this forum. Thing is it's a second car and that's getting a lot of time on it. If it's your daily driver then where it is has you by the short and curlys.

Can you drag it out of there 'for a mate to look at', and get back to them? Park it at yours, buy the sniff test kit and confirm it. I'd say a 2 day job with all the gear. If I was closer it wouldn't be an issue.

 

It's a judgement call depending on how much you're prepared to spend on the car. In your case, you've invested £1000's in the bodywork together with the actual purchase price of the car. Given the amount of money you've already put into the car & the fact that these were £50k cars when new with repair costs in the big league, it is probably worth repairing the engine as the bodywork is in near showroom condition.

The danger of just scrapping the car & looking for another is that you know what's been done to your current car & it's just the engine that needs sorting. If you got another car, then you've got the expense of the intial purchase for a new car that you don't know anything about & there's no guarantee that a replacement XJR wouldn't blow it's head gaskets in the future either.

Then you'd be right back to square one again, but out of pocket by the several thousand needed to buy the new car & still faced with an engine repair bill that would cost the same as for your current car.

Now about the best approach to repairing the engine on your current car...


If you went for the replacement steel-linered engine option, is your Jaguar specialist really certain that he could obtain & fit a steel-linered engine for £2000? What can happen is that you give the go-ahead for the engine replacement, and then you gradually get phone calls from the garage telling you of each new problem they've come across in the engine replacement that will push the repair cost up to £3000 or more.

They would have to source a steel-linered block & they don't exactly grow on trees for a few hundred. Anyone who owns a sick Nikasil car will also be in the queue looking for the first available steel-linered engine they can find.

They could source a complete steel-linered engine from an accident-damaged car, but if it's a high mileage unit then it could also blow it's head gaskets in the future & then you'd have another big bill.

If they sourced a new block from Jaguar then they've still got to dismantle the heads from the old engine to put on the new engine, as well as transplant the blocks from the car-so you've got a large labour charge going down this route, although at least you would have brand-new engine bottom end & new head gaskets to show for your money.

I would suggest an approach of 'working the problem' & take it 1 step at a time-unless you have to have the car on the road as it's your only mode of transport.

The head gaskets are suspect, so the heads are going to have to come off anyway. Once the heads are off then the type of damage can be checked to see what the next step should be. You then have the following options:

If the Nikasil bores are alright then you can just have the heads cleaned up, checked for flatness & skimmed if necessary, then have new gaskets fitted & the heads refitted.

If the Nikasil bores show signs of corrosion or there are cracks in the Nikasil coating, then you will need a new block & that is the point when you should consider a new engine.

There's no easy or cheap way to fix this problem-whatever approach you take is going to cost a lot of money, so it's a case of taking the most efficient repair path.

You will need to keep on top of this repair with the garage every step of the way-instruct them to proceed 1 step at a time & for you to be consulted & shown the damage before you authorise the next step in the repair process.

The heads need to come off whatever you do, so this should be the first step. If the Nikasil bores are alright then you can just have the gaskets replaced & the top-end rebuilt. This is the least expensive repair option.

Your problems will start if the Nikasil bores are damaged, because your repair options then are limited to either buying a new steel linered block & pistons from Jaguar themselves, or trying to find a suitable second-hand steel-linered engine from the supercharged model, as these have different pistons to the 'regular' XJ8 engine, so you can't just use any old 4.0L engine for sale unless you get the matching lower-compression pistons for the supercharged version.

But first things first & have the heads removed to see what is damaged. The garage will naturally 'tend' towards leading you to the most expensive repair option because they are a business & the UK economy is weak, so any business will try & maximise it's profit.

So keep your wits about you & give the garage a precise repair plan once they have removed the heads & actually shown you the damage-it's your car so go to the workshop & ask them what they've done & what they've found.

If they do suggest replacing the whole engine, ask them how confident they can be that a steel-linered engine can be sourced & fitted to a perfect working standard for £2000, and also where they are getting the engine from in the first place...

 

Thanks for your help red.
Ive found this on ebay not sure whether to give it a go, it is only a nikilsi lined engine but he said he's had it pressured tested and the linings have not been effected by the petrol in the late 90s
jaguar xkr xjr 4.0 engine | eBay

What do you think, an option if I have to replace the engine or stay away?

 

I don't understand the "only nikasil". If a nikasil block is in good condition it is superior to a steel lined block.

 

True, I think I may risk getting mine repaired and hope theres no inner corrosion, it least I know my engine has been well serviced every 5-10k miles and I reakon its a very small chance I will need a replacement engine, skimming would be the worst case. Agree fellow Jaaaaguar friends?

 

Its not my daily drive so I have all the time in the world.
Also Im happy with them odds so I think I will repair.....

 

Seems like he knows what he's doing & the engine certainly looks alright-far better than those dirty ones that have been pulled from a car, given a quick wipe down & then put up for sale. Did the seller state categorically that there was no bore corrosion due to sulphurous petrols once being used?

The generally accepted wisdom now is that if a Nikasil block has managed to survive the last of the sulphurous petrols used in it, then it will be alright now as petrols have much, much lower sulphur levels & will be highly unlikely to start any new bore corrosion.

I'd certainly keep this engine as an option, considering it's been rebuilt properly & the price is reasonable for what you're getting. Nice paint job on it, although I wonder if the paint on the exhaust manifolds will crack & flake when they get really hot after a hard drive!

As you don't have to rush to repair your car, then you might as well instruct the garage to remove the cylinder heads & report their findings to you before you make any decision.

If the bores are ok in your current engine, then it's just a case of fitting new gaskets & away you go. If not, then put the repair on hold while you obtain a replacement engine for the garage to fit.

 

Ok one final question.
If I have the engine fixed, new gasket and skimmed is there any chance it will be down on performance/power to previously before any head gasket problems?

 

FWIW don't rush into buying a replacement engine. There's nothing wrong with Nikasil.
The job is fiddly because of the S/C but there's nothing you can't do yourself with support from the guys here.
If you've spent a lot on the car then try to fix it.

 

I just dont have the experience or knewledge to do the job myself, I would need a really good guide to say the least.

 

Like anything new it's a learning curve.

Have you got a copy of JTIS? Things like Jaguar's classic spare parts website that has exploded diagrams are a help.
Reading all the threads and the rebuild manual, print it off and read through it a few times you're halfway there. That's what plenty of members on here have done and much more without prior knowledge.

You can strip the top of the engine with a basic 3/8-1/2" socket set, I was in Halfords last weekend and had a play with their Professional range with a lifetime guarantee, for £100! I've paid more for a ratchet in the past....

Another nice thing is Dsnyder and Roger77 are doing the same job on this forum right now, so another great resource.

I'm only a phone call away, and I'm sure there's plenty of other members that would be the same in offering advice, tips, shortcuts and sage advice about the job.

I can only see positive things about working on your own car. Satisfaction, a new knowledge about the car and yourself, and new friends. It's an admirable skill to fix your own car, not rocket science, even Red can change his own head gaskets And you can save a bundle. If it's not a daily, I see no reason not to get into it.

 

There seem to be a number of suggestions regarding DIY.

However, replacing the head gaskets could be a leap off a cliff for someone lacking in experience. It might not be the best choice for a first attempt at DIY.

I suggest that at the very least one should install JTIS or obtain the engine repair course manual from links on this site and read the relevant parts thoroughly. That should give you a good idea of the scope of work and whether it is at least understandable to you.

 

I did my first head gasket job about 20 years ago on an old Ford V6 engine-however, that was very simple as it had a carburettor & pushrods so there was no cam timing, fuel injection or supercharger to remove.

I've done head gaskets on 6 of my cars now-2 old pushrod Ford V6's, 3 BMW straight-sixes & then the Bentley last year. The Bentley was by far the biggest job as there was a huge amount of stuff that had to be removed before getting down to the heads-probably why it's a £5000+ job at a garage & takes around 60 hours...

If the O/P is not confident to do the job himself then the Jag V8 is probably not the best engine to practice your first head gasket change on, because if you accidentally get the cam timing wrong upon re-assembly then that can cause more damage than the original fault.

There was a lot more work to do than on the Jag V8, but it was simple stuff & a pushrod V8 again with no cam timing. The Jag V8 doesn't take as much dismantling to reach the heads but it's complicated by the cam timing.

In this case it may be best if the O/P gives the garage the go-ahead to removed the heads & see what parts are damaged. If it's just the head gaskets then it's a simple matter for the garage to fit new ones & re-assemble the top end. If they discover any Nikasil bore corrosion then that is the point to reconsider the options & plan the next step. For the moment though the first step is to get the heads off...