Destoyed my blower. Gen V Eaton on a 2000 XJR. What exactly does it take?
#1
07-31-2012, 10:39 AM
Destoyed my blower. Gen V Eaton on a 2000 XJR. What exactly does it take?
Recently I was having a problem with my 2000 XJR (60k miles) where one of my heater hoses that run under the supercharger was leaking quite profusely, so I removed the supercharger and replaced them both. While I was putting the car back together, I came up one bolt short. I figured I'd dropped it somewhere off the car and thought nothing of it, got another bolt, and buttoned up the car. On the test drive start hearing a clack sound from the intake. Bloody hell, something's in the blower. Almost get home when the supercharger siezes. Damn, damn, damn. Get it home (thanks to my friend and his rollback), take the blower back off, and sure enough, there's my missing bolt, wedged under one of my rotors, halfway buried in the case. Learn from my fail, KEEP TRACK OF YOUR BOLTS! As a former aircraft maintainer in the USAF, I feel doubly stupid, should have red-x'd the car until I found the bolt.
But long story short, the blower is toast. So since I need a new supercharger now, figured I might try a Gen V off a 4.2. So what exactly is involved with making a Gev V work on a 4.0 engine?
-They appear to be externally identical as far as mounting, is this true? Same mounting locations, heights, snout length etc?
-The rear of the blower is quite obviously different for the bigger gen V bearings. Can I use my 4.0 intake elbow? And with that, would I use a 4.2 gasket at the interface or does the one I have work? I assume I would need a 2004+ elbow-to-supercharger gasket, but does the combination of gen V blower and gasket work directly with my 4.0 elbow, or do I need to source a 4.2 elbow as well?
-Similarly, I assume my 4.0 blower outlet hat (the bit with the "V8" boss on it) will work directly with the Gen V blower. True?
I assume this has been covered before, and I searched dilligently for it, but couldn't find any concrete answers to these questions. So anyone experienced with this (Avos?), any help will be greatly appreciated!
But long story short, the blower is toast. So since I need a new supercharger now, figured I might try a Gen V off a 4.2. So what exactly is involved with making a Gev V work on a 4.0 engine?
-They appear to be externally identical as far as mounting, is this true? Same mounting locations, heights, snout length etc?
-The rear of the blower is quite obviously different for the bigger gen V bearings. Can I use my 4.0 intake elbow? And with that, would I use a 4.2 gasket at the interface or does the one I have work? I assume I would need a 2004+ elbow-to-supercharger gasket, but does the combination of gen V blower and gasket work directly with my 4.0 elbow, or do I need to source a 4.2 elbow as well?
-Similarly, I assume my 4.0 blower outlet hat (the bit with the "V8" boss on it) will work directly with the Gen V blower. True?
I assume this has been covered before, and I searched dilligently for it, but couldn't find any concrete answers to these questions. So anyone experienced with this (Avos?), any help will be greatly appreciated!
#2
07-31-2012, 10:56 AM
Veteran Member
It’s not hard, you need to use the 4.2 gasket which is a little thicker, however the bearings will still stick out 1 or 2 mm iirc. As due to heat the bearings could stick out a little further again, best to mill away about 3mm on the spots where the bearings would touch on the original intake elbow. That’s it.
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#4
07-31-2012, 11:29 AM
Veteran Member
#6
07-31-2012, 03:33 PM
Nah, if I was going to spend that kind of money I'd just put the LS2 I have sitting in the garage into it 
It'll just get the most basic of BPUs (1.5 lb upper pulley, mild blower port, K&N panel filter, and exhaust) until the AJ eventually blows up (probably be a good long while, considering it only has 60k miles, fresh upgraded tensioners, and a great service history up until me feeding it bolts
), and then I'll probably build a mild turbo LQ9 6.0 for it and push on for 600 whp.
It'll just get the most basic of BPUs (1.5 lb upper pulley, mild blower port, K&N panel filter, and exhaust) until the AJ eventually blows up (probably be a good long while, considering it only has 60k miles, fresh upgraded tensioners, and a great service history up until me feeding it bolts
), and then I'll probably build a mild turbo LQ9 6.0 for it and push on for 600 whp.
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03_jaaag (04-25-2024)
#7
07-31-2012, 07:20 PM
LS2+XJR=mutant... I know it's supposed to be
"sacrilege", but come on... the only advantage
those engines have is that they're bigger.
Why don't you see how much a TVS will run you?
At 10lbs/sq. in. you should be pushing a good
450hp. From what I understand they are a similar
size to the Eaton M112. (The R1900 would have
a similar displacement, just 100cc larger, but
with similar housing shape and size)
http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/publ.../ct_167917.jpg
Ian
"sacrilege", but come on... the only advantage
those engines have is that they're bigger.
Why don't you see how much a TVS will run you?
At 10lbs/sq. in. you should be pushing a good
450hp. From what I understand they are a similar
size to the Eaton M112. (The R1900 would have
a similar displacement, just 100cc larger, but
with similar housing shape and size)
http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/publ.../ct_167917.jpg
Ian
Last edited by Ipc838; 07-31-2012 at 07:24 PM. Reason: added link
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#9
07-31-2012, 10:09 PM
I have done this check out my post on this and if it were me I would do away with the bypass clamps and get yourself some good worm gear kind made getting the 4.0 intake lined up with the holes much easier. The gasket and slightly raised roof of the gen 5 make it a tighter fit. I would not port it at all it will not gain in power, efficency, or MPG so just leave it be as its ports are about as perfect as they can be from the factory.
Also dont mess with the 1.5 pulley not even worth it the 3 pound is a much better upgrade and very noticable especially down low and mid range
Also dont mess with the 1.5 pulley not even worth it the 3 pound is a much better upgrade and very noticable especially down low and mid range
The following 3 users liked this post by XJR-0220:
#10
08-01-2012, 08:19 AM
Senior Member
I have done this check out my post on this and if it were me I would do away with the bypass clamps and get yourself some good worm gear kind made getting the 4.0 intake lined up with the holes much easier. The gasket and slightly raised roof of the gen 5 make it a tighter fit. I would not port it at all it will not gain in power, efficency, or MPG so just leave it be as its ports are about as perfect as they can be from the factory.
Also dont mess with the 1.5 pulley not even worth it the 3 pound is a much better upgrade and very noticable especially down low and mid range
Also dont mess with the 1.5 pulley not even worth it the 3 pound is a much better upgrade and very noticable especially down low and mid range
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03_jaaag (04-25-2024)
#13
08-01-2012, 02:34 PM
@ianclements
There are a few reasons why I'll probably eventually go LSx.
-Primarily it's so I can run a manual transmission. I know it doesn't really fit the intent of a Jag, but IMO a true sports sedan requires a stick. I love the AJ8 and the transmission is pretty good, I just don't like slushboxes in general, no matter how good, and there is no easy solution to put a manual behind the AJ. It can certainly be done, but it'd likely cost well more than what I paid for the car itself, and well more than the cost of the whole LS swap, including the same T56 I'd put behind the AJ.
-And the LS will make WAY more power, way more easily than the AJ ever will. The AJ is a hell of an engine. It's stunningly compact and light for a DOHC V8, and very reliable for an early mass market DOHC V8 as well. But they just don't displace enough. I can pick up an L92 (all aluminum 6.2L. basically a detuned LS3 with variable cam timing) out of an Escalade for less than $2500 that will make more power and torque dead stock than the 4.2 supercharged AJ8s make, with a lighter, even more compact engine. And with nothing more than an aftermarket cam and some cheap head work, 500 whp natually aspirated is fairly easy. Throw a low boost Magnussen supercharger kit on a cam-only LS2 and it'll make 600 whp easy as breathing. The limits are simply so much higher on the LS for so much less money. And with the LS, you aren't the barbarian in the woods, forging a new path that few, if any, have been down before. LS' are cheap and very well understood, and they don't really have any downside compared to the AJ besides not being a Jaguar engine.
-The AJ sits ridiculously far forward in the engine bay in the X308 chassis. The width of the engine really prevents it from being moved back much in the chassis, as it would interfere with those reinforcement bulkheads that go from the aprons to the firewall. The LS' are much narrower, and I'd have no problem being able to move the engine several inches rearward, maybe as much as 10". This would have a MASSIVE effect on weight distribution in the car, which on the stock X308 Rs is rather forward biased (to the tune of 54% forward from everything I hear). It would greatly reduce the already low amount of understeer the car exhibits, and really make it a sportier handling machine.
So in essence, an LS swap would give me easy access to a manual in the X308 chassis, greatly improved weight distribution and therefore greatly improved handling, as well as an engine that is capable of making the 600 whp mark I'd eventually like to hit. Is it kind of a lazy route as compared to working with the AJ? Certainly. But it's an easy, cheap, and reliable way to reach my eventual number goals with the car.
And I had considered the TVS, but they are still quite expensive to purchase, would likely require a ton of custom fabrication (it would almost certainly require fabrication of new inlet and exhaust elbows at a minimum), and likely a tune, as that's getting way outside the stock tunes fudge factor parameters. It'd be very cool. But that's a lot of effort for 450 whp that I could get out of a fairly mild naturally aspirated LSx. So, I think for now I'm just going to go with a Gen V that will get me back on the road reasonably quickly and just drive it until the "big power" bug starts biting harder, at which point I'll probably put an LS in there.
There are a few reasons why I'll probably eventually go LSx.
-Primarily it's so I can run a manual transmission. I know it doesn't really fit the intent of a Jag, but IMO a true sports sedan requires a stick. I love the AJ8 and the transmission is pretty good, I just don't like slushboxes in general, no matter how good, and there is no easy solution to put a manual behind the AJ. It can certainly be done, but it'd likely cost well more than what I paid for the car itself, and well more than the cost of the whole LS swap, including the same T56 I'd put behind the AJ.
-And the LS will make WAY more power, way more easily than the AJ ever will. The AJ is a hell of an engine. It's stunningly compact and light for a DOHC V8, and very reliable for an early mass market DOHC V8 as well. But they just don't displace enough. I can pick up an L92 (all aluminum 6.2L. basically a detuned LS3 with variable cam timing) out of an Escalade for less than $2500 that will make more power and torque dead stock than the 4.2 supercharged AJ8s make, with a lighter, even more compact engine. And with nothing more than an aftermarket cam and some cheap head work, 500 whp natually aspirated is fairly easy. Throw a low boost Magnussen supercharger kit on a cam-only LS2 and it'll make 600 whp easy as breathing. The limits are simply so much higher on the LS for so much less money. And with the LS, you aren't the barbarian in the woods, forging a new path that few, if any, have been down before. LS' are cheap and very well understood, and they don't really have any downside compared to the AJ besides not being a Jaguar engine.
-The AJ sits ridiculously far forward in the engine bay in the X308 chassis. The width of the engine really prevents it from being moved back much in the chassis, as it would interfere with those reinforcement bulkheads that go from the aprons to the firewall. The LS' are much narrower, and I'd have no problem being able to move the engine several inches rearward, maybe as much as 10". This would have a MASSIVE effect on weight distribution in the car, which on the stock X308 Rs is rather forward biased (to the tune of 54% forward from everything I hear). It would greatly reduce the already low amount of understeer the car exhibits, and really make it a sportier handling machine.
So in essence, an LS swap would give me easy access to a manual in the X308 chassis, greatly improved weight distribution and therefore greatly improved handling, as well as an engine that is capable of making the 600 whp mark I'd eventually like to hit. Is it kind of a lazy route as compared to working with the AJ? Certainly. But it's an easy, cheap, and reliable way to reach my eventual number goals with the car.
And I had considered the TVS, but they are still quite expensive to purchase, would likely require a ton of custom fabrication (it would almost certainly require fabrication of new inlet and exhaust elbows at a minimum), and likely a tune, as that's getting way outside the stock tunes fudge factor parameters. It'd be very cool. But that's a lot of effort for 450 whp that I could get out of a fairly mild naturally aspirated LSx. So, I think for now I'm just going to go with a Gen V that will get me back on the road reasonably quickly and just drive it until the "big power" bug starts biting harder, at which point I'll probably put an LS in there.
#14
08-01-2012, 03:55 PM
Yeah, the TVS would need a bit of custom fab work. It is used on the current
5.0 AJ-V8, but that has a different intake manifold altogether. So, it is by
no means a bolt-in. The engineering behind it, though, is impressive.
The LS does have bigger potential, I will concede that... although, I would
say that simply because of its supercharged nature, the XJR has a lot
going for it in terms of the power potential in current state (ie, N/A or S/C)
My friends with LS2s and the LS3 are getting around 400whp from intakes,
full exhausts (w/headers) and a slew of other small mods, but the availability
of AJ-V8 performance parts is hardly shrinking. As you know, twin-screw
upgrades have the humble 4.0s chucking out over 500whp... on an automatic!!
The LS is much narrower. If I'm honest, the AJ-V8 head actually looks like
a hemispherical head with how big it is. The weight distribution on N/A cars
is 50.0%/50.0%, the S/C models are not near 54%... it is actually 52.8% F,
according to C/D (but their 2000 issue had a lot of errors on the Jaguar's specs,
so I would estimate it is closer to 50 than that, their weight spec is 50lbs off
of Jaguar's own. )
The manual option is highly illogical on the Jag V8. While I wish it weren't
such a complex fit, it simply costs more than it is worth with these cars.
So, the LS has a massive advantage there. I am sure that the model name
is available, but look at the XKR-R from 2000 or so. That had a 6sp Getrag if
I am not mistaken, and that car produced a factory 450bhp. (Aston Martin
is to blame for these Jags having idiosyncratic performance things, like
when some '03 models were slower than '02s on the XKR)
The handling shouldn't be all that improved. But I will say, I have driven
what I belive to be the best handing X308... I had an XJ Sport for 2 years,
and it had perfect 50/50 weight dist... the handling was better even than
BMW's neutral handling, with understeer coming only from weight provocation
and a bad set-up in to a corner, but oversteer a matter of accelerator position.
The Supercharged XJs I have driven though, inculuding my new XJR, are not
as low of mileage, and my current one needs a couple of suspension bushings
and desperately needs a set of tyres, the Goodyears on there were recalled
for being awful. (Here is hoping that I get free goodyears when they inspect
my tyres).
You can feel that extra weight up front, but if I'm honest the CATS suspension
is a bigger issue than the 2% difference in weight distribution. The XJ Sport
had stiffer suspension, I don't know if I've ever noticed my CATS go into
their hardcore mode. The XJR actually rides softer for some reason.
In all though, don't expect the handling to improve too much. The supercharger
stuff may add (somewhere under, but not sure) 70 lbs, but an LS is a heavier
engine, and I don't believe something like an LS2 will be as stiff of a block,
and without the XJR's hydraulic mounts you will lose yet more stability
(Although the XJ Sport had static mounts, and I can't discern the difference
in handling based on types of engine mounts)
Either way, good luck. I would love to give my XJR a TVS R1900 and show
my GM LS fan friends a thing or two though
Good luck getting your car back on the road, I wouldn't be surprised if your
5th gen S/C adds a bit of power!!
Ian
5.0 AJ-V8, but that has a different intake manifold altogether. So, it is by
no means a bolt-in. The engineering behind it, though, is impressive.
The LS does have bigger potential, I will concede that... although, I would
say that simply because of its supercharged nature, the XJR has a lot
going for it in terms of the power potential in current state (ie, N/A or S/C)
My friends with LS2s and the LS3 are getting around 400whp from intakes,
full exhausts (w/headers) and a slew of other small mods, but the availability
of AJ-V8 performance parts is hardly shrinking. As you know, twin-screw
upgrades have the humble 4.0s chucking out over 500whp... on an automatic!!
The LS is much narrower. If I'm honest, the AJ-V8 head actually looks like
a hemispherical head with how big it is. The weight distribution on N/A cars
is 50.0%/50.0%, the S/C models are not near 54%... it is actually 52.8% F,
according to C/D (but their 2000 issue had a lot of errors on the Jaguar's specs,
so I would estimate it is closer to 50 than that, their weight spec is 50lbs off
of Jaguar's own. )
The manual option is highly illogical on the Jag V8. While I wish it weren't
such a complex fit, it simply costs more than it is worth with these cars.
So, the LS has a massive advantage there. I am sure that the model name
is available, but look at the XKR-R from 2000 or so. That had a 6sp Getrag if
I am not mistaken, and that car produced a factory 450bhp. (Aston Martin
is to blame for these Jags having idiosyncratic performance things, like
when some '03 models were slower than '02s on the XKR)
The handling shouldn't be all that improved. But I will say, I have driven
what I belive to be the best handing X308... I had an XJ Sport for 2 years,
and it had perfect 50/50 weight dist... the handling was better even than
BMW's neutral handling, with understeer coming only from weight provocation
and a bad set-up in to a corner, but oversteer a matter of accelerator position.
The Supercharged XJs I have driven though, inculuding my new XJR, are not
as low of mileage, and my current one needs a couple of suspension bushings
and desperately needs a set of tyres, the Goodyears on there were recalled
for being awful. (Here is hoping that I get free goodyears when they inspect
my tyres).
You can feel that extra weight up front, but if I'm honest the CATS suspension
is a bigger issue than the 2% difference in weight distribution. The XJ Sport
had stiffer suspension, I don't know if I've ever noticed my CATS go into
their hardcore mode. The XJR actually rides softer for some reason.
In all though, don't expect the handling to improve too much. The supercharger
stuff may add (somewhere under, but not sure) 70 lbs, but an LS is a heavier
engine, and I don't believe something like an LS2 will be as stiff of a block,
and without the XJR's hydraulic mounts you will lose yet more stability
(Although the XJ Sport had static mounts, and I can't discern the difference
in handling based on types of engine mounts)
Either way, good luck. I would love to give my XJR a TVS R1900 and show
my GM LS fan friends a thing or two though
Good luck getting your car back on the road, I wouldn't be surprised if your
5th gen S/C adds a bit of power!!
Ian
#15
08-02-2012, 10:25 AM
Senior Member
@ianclements
There are a few reasons why I'll probably eventually go LSx.
-Primarily it's so I can run a manual transmission. I know it doesn't really fit the intent of a Jag, but IMO a true sports sedan requires a stick. I love the AJ8 and the transmission is pretty good, I just don't like slushboxes in general, no matter how good, and there is no easy solution to put a manual behind the AJ. It can certainly be done, but it'd likely cost well more than what I paid for the car itself, and well more than the cost of the whole LS swap, including the same T56 I'd put behind the AJ.
-And the LS will make WAY more power, way more easily than the AJ ever will. The AJ is a hell of an engine. It's stunningly compact and light for a DOHC V8, and very reliable for an early mass market DOHC V8 as well. But they just don't displace enough. I can pick up an L92 (all aluminum 6.2L. basically a detuned LS3 with variable cam timing) out of an Escalade for less than $2500 that will make more power and torque dead stock than the 4.2 supercharged AJ8s make, with a lighter, even more compact engine. And with nothing more than an aftermarket cam and some cheap head work, 500 whp natually aspirated is fairly easy. Throw a low boost Magnussen supercharger kit on a cam-only LS2 and it'll make 600 whp easy as breathing. The limits are simply so much higher on the LS for so much less money. And with the LS, you aren't the barbarian in the woods, forging a new path that few, if any, have been down before. LS' are cheap and very well understood, and they don't really have any downside compared to the AJ besides not being a Jaguar engine.
-The AJ sits ridiculously far forward in the engine bay in the X308 chassis. The width of the engine really prevents it from being moved back much in the chassis, as it would interfere with those reinforcement bulkheads that go from the aprons to the firewall. The LS' are much narrower, and I'd have no problem being able to move the engine several inches rearward, maybe as much as 10". This would have a MASSIVE effect on weight distribution in the car, which on the stock X308 Rs is rather forward biased (to the tune of 54% forward from everything I hear). It would greatly reduce the already low amount of understeer the car exhibits, and really make it a sportier handling machine.
So in essence, an LS swap would give me easy access to a manual in the X308 chassis, greatly improved weight distribution and therefore greatly improved handling, as well as an engine that is capable of making the 600 whp mark I'd eventually like to hit. Is it kind of a lazy route as compared to working with the AJ? Certainly. But it's an easy, cheap, and reliable way to reach my eventual number goals with the car.
And I had considered the TVS, but they are still quite expensive to purchase, would likely require a ton of custom fabrication (it would almost certainly require fabrication of new inlet and exhaust elbows at a minimum), and likely a tune, as that's getting way outside the stock tunes fudge factor parameters. It'd be very cool. But that's a lot of effort for 450 whp that I could get out of a fairly mild naturally aspirated LSx. So, I think for now I'm just going to go with a Gen V that will get me back on the road reasonably quickly and just drive it until the "big power" bug starts biting harder, at which point I'll probably put an LS in there.
There are a few reasons why I'll probably eventually go LSx.
-Primarily it's so I can run a manual transmission. I know it doesn't really fit the intent of a Jag, but IMO a true sports sedan requires a stick. I love the AJ8 and the transmission is pretty good, I just don't like slushboxes in general, no matter how good, and there is no easy solution to put a manual behind the AJ. It can certainly be done, but it'd likely cost well more than what I paid for the car itself, and well more than the cost of the whole LS swap, including the same T56 I'd put behind the AJ.
-And the LS will make WAY more power, way more easily than the AJ ever will. The AJ is a hell of an engine. It's stunningly compact and light for a DOHC V8, and very reliable for an early mass market DOHC V8 as well. But they just don't displace enough. I can pick up an L92 (all aluminum 6.2L. basically a detuned LS3 with variable cam timing) out of an Escalade for less than $2500 that will make more power and torque dead stock than the 4.2 supercharged AJ8s make, with a lighter, even more compact engine. And with nothing more than an aftermarket cam and some cheap head work, 500 whp natually aspirated is fairly easy. Throw a low boost Magnussen supercharger kit on a cam-only LS2 and it'll make 600 whp easy as breathing. The limits are simply so much higher on the LS for so much less money. And with the LS, you aren't the barbarian in the woods, forging a new path that few, if any, have been down before. LS' are cheap and very well understood, and they don't really have any downside compared to the AJ besides not being a Jaguar engine.
-The AJ sits ridiculously far forward in the engine bay in the X308 chassis. The width of the engine really prevents it from being moved back much in the chassis, as it would interfere with those reinforcement bulkheads that go from the aprons to the firewall. The LS' are much narrower, and I'd have no problem being able to move the engine several inches rearward, maybe as much as 10". This would have a MASSIVE effect on weight distribution in the car, which on the stock X308 Rs is rather forward biased (to the tune of 54% forward from everything I hear). It would greatly reduce the already low amount of understeer the car exhibits, and really make it a sportier handling machine.
So in essence, an LS swap would give me easy access to a manual in the X308 chassis, greatly improved weight distribution and therefore greatly improved handling, as well as an engine that is capable of making the 600 whp mark I'd eventually like to hit. Is it kind of a lazy route as compared to working with the AJ? Certainly. But it's an easy, cheap, and reliable way to reach my eventual number goals with the car.
And I had considered the TVS, but they are still quite expensive to purchase, would likely require a ton of custom fabrication (it would almost certainly require fabrication of new inlet and exhaust elbows at a minimum), and likely a tune, as that's getting way outside the stock tunes fudge factor parameters. It'd be very cool. But that's a lot of effort for 450 whp that I could get out of a fairly mild naturally aspirated LSx. So, I think for now I'm just going to go with a Gen V that will get me back on the road reasonably quickly and just drive it until the "big power" bug starts biting harder, at which point I'll probably put an LS in there.
It WILL remove the "slushbox" That is an AMG Benz Tranny. the S55AMG in 98 was over a 100grand in 1998 Money and that Transmission is built for fun and with the J-shift it is..
IMO if your going to have the SC out spend the 210 bucks and get a stainless steel 3lb pulley from the UK, look on Ebay. IMO and what I am planning on doing is finding a 98-2003 x308 donor. Blown Motor/Trans or high miles (must have perfect interior) and do a GM LS conversion with trans and rear end. Would be nice to have these cars have 585HP. And keeping my UK Jag. What is cool about doing this is You will have a PArts car to feed off for your UK Jag and once A GM_jag will have a pyle of Jag parts that will save you $$$. It is a win win and well you dont want to be with out your Jag as I am thinking...
#16
08-02-2012, 10:29 AM
Senior Member
I Read this three times and feel smarter for doings so!!!! Thanks! 
Yeah, the TVS would need a bit of custom fab work. It is used on the current
5.0 AJ-V8, but that has a different intake manifold altogether. So, it is by
no means a bolt-in. The engineering behind it, though, is impressive.
The LS does have bigger potential, I will concede that... although, I would
say that simply because of its supercharged nature, the XJR has a lot
going for it in terms of the power potential in current state (ie, N/A or S/C)
My friends with LS2s and the LS3 are getting around 400whp from intakes,
full exhausts (w/headers) and a slew of other small mods, but the availability
of AJ-V8 performance parts is hardly shrinking. As you know, twin-screw
upgrades have the humble 4.0s chucking out over 500whp... on an automatic!!
The LS is much narrower. If I'm honest, the AJ-V8 head actually looks like
a hemispherical head with how big it is. The weight distribution on N/A cars
is 50.0%/50.0%, the S/C models are not near 54%... it is actually 52.8% F,
according to C/D (but their 2000 issue had a lot of errors on the Jaguar's specs,
so I would estimate it is closer to 50 than that, their weight spec is 50lbs off
of Jaguar's own. )
The manual option is highly illogical on the Jag V8. While I wish it weren't
such a complex fit, it simply costs more than it is worth with these cars.
So, the LS has a massive advantage there. I am sure that the model name
is available, but look at the XKR-R from 2000 or so. That had a 6sp Getrag if
I am not mistaken, and that car produced a factory 450bhp. (Aston Martin
is to blame for these Jags having idiosyncratic performance things, like
when some '03 models were slower than '02s on the XKR)
The handling shouldn't be all that improved. But I will say, I have driven
what I belive to be the best handing X308... I had an XJ Sport for 2 years,
and it had perfect 50/50 weight dist... the handling was better even than
BMW's neutral handling, with understeer coming only from weight provocation
and a bad set-up in to a corner, but oversteer a matter of accelerator position.
The Supercharged XJs I have driven though, inculuding my new XJR, are not
as low of mileage, and my current one needs a couple of suspension bushings
and desperately needs a set of tyres, the Goodyears on there were recalled
for being awful. (Here is hoping that I get free goodyears when they inspect
my tyres).
You can feel that extra weight up front, but if I'm honest the CATS suspension
is a bigger issue than the 2% difference in weight distribution. The XJ Sport
had stiffer suspension, I don't know if I've ever noticed my CATS go into
their hardcore mode. The XJR actually rides softer for some reason.
In all though, don't expect the handling to improve too much. The supercharger
stuff may add (somewhere under, but not sure) 70 lbs, but an LS is a heavier
engine, and I don't believe something like an LS2 will be as stiff of a block,
and without the XJR's hydraulic mounts you will lose yet more stability
(Although the XJ Sport had static mounts, and I can't discern the difference
in handling based on types of engine mounts)
Either way, good luck. I would love to give my XJR a TVS R1900 and show
my GM LS fan friends a thing or two though
Good luck getting your car back on the road, I wouldn't be surprised if your
5th gen S/C adds a bit of power!!
Ian
5.0 AJ-V8, but that has a different intake manifold altogether. So, it is by
no means a bolt-in. The engineering behind it, though, is impressive.
The LS does have bigger potential, I will concede that... although, I would
say that simply because of its supercharged nature, the XJR has a lot
going for it in terms of the power potential in current state (ie, N/A or S/C)
My friends with LS2s and the LS3 are getting around 400whp from intakes,
full exhausts (w/headers) and a slew of other small mods, but the availability
of AJ-V8 performance parts is hardly shrinking. As you know, twin-screw
upgrades have the humble 4.0s chucking out over 500whp... on an automatic!!
The LS is much narrower. If I'm honest, the AJ-V8 head actually looks like
a hemispherical head with how big it is. The weight distribution on N/A cars
is 50.0%/50.0%, the S/C models are not near 54%... it is actually 52.8% F,
according to C/D (but their 2000 issue had a lot of errors on the Jaguar's specs,
so I would estimate it is closer to 50 than that, their weight spec is 50lbs off
of Jaguar's own. )
The manual option is highly illogical on the Jag V8. While I wish it weren't
such a complex fit, it simply costs more than it is worth with these cars.
So, the LS has a massive advantage there. I am sure that the model name
is available, but look at the XKR-R from 2000 or so. That had a 6sp Getrag if
I am not mistaken, and that car produced a factory 450bhp. (Aston Martin
is to blame for these Jags having idiosyncratic performance things, like
when some '03 models were slower than '02s on the XKR)
The handling shouldn't be all that improved. But I will say, I have driven
what I belive to be the best handing X308... I had an XJ Sport for 2 years,
and it had perfect 50/50 weight dist... the handling was better even than
BMW's neutral handling, with understeer coming only from weight provocation
and a bad set-up in to a corner, but oversteer a matter of accelerator position.
The Supercharged XJs I have driven though, inculuding my new XJR, are not
as low of mileage, and my current one needs a couple of suspension bushings
and desperately needs a set of tyres, the Goodyears on there were recalled
for being awful. (Here is hoping that I get free goodyears when they inspect
my tyres).
You can feel that extra weight up front, but if I'm honest the CATS suspension
is a bigger issue than the 2% difference in weight distribution. The XJ Sport
had stiffer suspension, I don't know if I've ever noticed my CATS go into
their hardcore mode. The XJR actually rides softer for some reason.
In all though, don't expect the handling to improve too much. The supercharger
stuff may add (somewhere under, but not sure) 70 lbs, but an LS is a heavier
engine, and I don't believe something like an LS2 will be as stiff of a block,
and without the XJR's hydraulic mounts you will lose yet more stability
(Although the XJ Sport had static mounts, and I can't discern the difference
in handling based on types of engine mounts)
Either way, good luck. I would love to give my XJR a TVS R1900 and show
my GM LS fan friends a thing or two though
Good luck getting your car back on the road, I wouldn't be surprised if your
5th gen S/C adds a bit of power!!
Ian
#17
08-02-2012, 11:02 AM
Cheers RLover, I'm glad you like my most recent novel
Looking back on that post, it is a bit of a whopper! I'm
very glad to contribute something. As far as the more
advanced engineering stuff goes, I am not a guru like
avos... but I hope we can sway Cabezagrande to
staying Cabezasupercharged, and prevent another Jaguar
from getting a GM heart
Thanks very much for the kind comments,
Ian
Looking back on that post, it is a bit of a whopper! I'm
very glad to contribute something. As far as the more
advanced engineering stuff goes, I am not a guru like
avos... but I hope we can sway Cabezagrande to
staying Cabezasupercharged, and prevent another Jaguar
from getting a GM heart
Thanks very much for the kind comments,
Ian
#18
08-02-2012, 11:57 AM
@XJR-0220
Thanks, I had missed that part of your old post, which I had checked out. Looks to be a simple mod, so I've got a nice low mile Gen 5 on the way. I had already converted most every hose clamp I could to the screw type when I took it apart, as I hate those stupid squeeze clamps with a vengeance. It made putting the bypass elbow in much, much easier.
On the pulley, my only concern with the 3lb pulley was the machining required and some horror stories I'd heard of the machining causing the snout to crack eventually. Anybody have personal experience one way or the other?
And on the porting, I know first hand from several friends with 03-04 Cobras that porting the Eaton was worth a good amount of power on those, is it really not worth anything on the Jags?
Thanks, I had missed that part of your old post, which I had checked out. Looks to be a simple mod, so I've got a nice low mile Gen 5 on the way. I had already converted most every hose clamp I could to the screw type when I took it apart, as I hate those stupid squeeze clamps with a vengeance. It made putting the bypass elbow in much, much easier.
On the pulley, my only concern with the 3lb pulley was the machining required and some horror stories I'd heard of the machining causing the snout to crack eventually. Anybody have personal experience one way or the other?
And on the porting, I know first hand from several friends with 03-04 Cobras that porting the Eaton was worth a good amount of power on those, is it really not worth anything on the Jags?
#19
08-02-2012, 12:37 PM
Veteran Member
@Cabez
Sounds like you needed a hose clamp tool, with it it's much faster to work on hoses.
The 'slush' box is probably the best thing about my car, you can run an adaptive program and it learns, and is transformed with AMG blue top solenoids. I like braking into a round-a-bout tipping the nose in and squirting it round on power oversteer - the box does all the work and coming out of the round-a-bout it's in gear and on gas far better than my buddy's S4 Audi (tuned).
Porting a Gen5 is as pointless and porting a Gen4 - all it does is make more noise. Better off considering the whole induction flow and improving air flow TO the S/C.
If installing a smaller nose pulley you're not removing spindle material, it's snout alloy that needs removing. If concerned about horror stories, rebuild the S/C with better than oem snout bearings. I run ceramics on the uprated ones I've done.
Sounds like you needed a hose clamp tool, with it it's much faster to work on hoses.
The 'slush' box is probably the best thing about my car, you can run an adaptive program and it learns, and is transformed with AMG blue top solenoids. I like braking into a round-a-bout tipping the nose in and squirting it round on power oversteer - the box does all the work and coming out of the round-a-bout it's in gear and on gas far better than my buddy's S4 Audi (tuned).
Porting a Gen5 is as pointless and porting a Gen4 - all it does is make more noise. Better off considering the whole induction flow and improving air flow TO the S/C.
If installing a smaller nose pulley you're not removing spindle material, it's snout alloy that needs removing. If concerned about horror stories, rebuild the S/C with better than oem snout bearings. I run ceramics on the uprated ones I've done.
#20
08-02-2012, 04:53 PM
The amount of material removed is not really that much at all and i have seen many an so far NOT ONE has cracked or hurt the supercharger you'll be fine just dont make it smaller than it needs to be. If you want to send the snout my way i will machine it for free and send it back with pulley already on no charge just pay shipping here and back.
As Sean B says the auto is badass in these cars and the blue tops make a huge difference i love my blue tops and while your in there tighten up the valve body screws to spec and change filter and fluid makes a nice difference wont be disappointed.
As for the porting I know tht the cobra guys love it but thats becus from the factory their outlet port is not optimum ours is great an about as close to perfect as we can get it. Knife edging it does very lil in fact i have seen a loss in low and mid range with only a slight gain in upper power from porting. The gen 5 blower has smaller noise ports making it more efficient, slightly raised roof also helping efficency, teflon coated rotors another gain, and larger bearings all and all great upgrade by itself dont screw it up by porting dont you think if this was a great upgrade with all theguys that have done it on here that we all wouldnt be doing it???? Stay away you will regret it.
As Sean B says the auto is badass in these cars and the blue tops make a huge difference i love my blue tops and while your in there tighten up the valve body screws to spec and change filter and fluid makes a nice difference wont be disappointed.
As for the porting I know tht the cobra guys love it but thats becus from the factory their outlet port is not optimum ours is great an about as close to perfect as we can get it. Knife edging it does very lil in fact i have seen a loss in low and mid range with only a slight gain in upper power from porting. The gen 5 blower has smaller noise ports making it more efficient, slightly raised roof also helping efficency, teflon coated rotors another gain, and larger bearings all and all great upgrade by itself dont screw it up by porting dont you think if this was a great upgrade with all theguys that have done it on here that we all wouldnt be doing it???? Stay away you will regret it.