Failsafe engine mode, engine will not start
#21
#22
Here's an update ladies and gents:
I checked the Schrader valve for the fuel line after cranking and fuel squirted out. I switched the fuel pump relay, no dice. I checked the connector plugs to the throttle body and they look very clean.
I'd like to recap some of my issues leading up to the no start situation:
I had some rough starts for about a week or two before I could not start at all. Failsafe Engine Mode was coming on before the no start situation each time, but went away after the engine ran for a few seconds. In a nutshell, this issue became progressively worse before it turned into a no start situation.
I'll try to charge the battery to see if that works. If I don't pinpoint the issue soon I'm going to get a diagnostic test done, which will hurt because it'll likely mean a tow fee plus the diagnostic fee.
I checked the Schrader valve for the fuel line after cranking and fuel squirted out. I switched the fuel pump relay, no dice. I checked the connector plugs to the throttle body and they look very clean.
I'd like to recap some of my issues leading up to the no start situation:
I had some rough starts for about a week or two before I could not start at all. Failsafe Engine Mode was coming on before the no start situation each time, but went away after the engine ran for a few seconds. In a nutshell, this issue became progressively worse before it turned into a no start situation.
I'll try to charge the battery to see if that works. If I don't pinpoint the issue soon I'm going to get a diagnostic test done, which will hurt because it'll likely mean a tow fee plus the diagnostic fee.
#23
#24
I left the battery disconnected over night in an attempt to reset the computer. I charged the battery for about 30 minutes using a 10 amp setting. The battery measured around 13.5 volts afterwards. I touched the negative cable to the positive post. After reconnecting the battery, the dash displayed an amber system check message. On the first crank the engine showed a brief glimpse of life and then died. After that the following cranks are same-old same-old.
I'm thinking of spraying some carb cleaner into the throttle body. Does anyone think this is a good idea?
#25
#27
It's entirely possible. I haven't officially checked the fuel pressure besides depressing the Schrader valve. Fuel squirted out. I also administered the cure for bore/cylinder wash by injecting motor oil into the cylinders. The spark plugs smelled strongly of gasoline/petrol, as well as they appeared to be soaked in it (these are brand new, pre-gapped Bosch spark plugs; FYI, the no start issue existed before replacing the spark plugs). I have obviously ruled out bore/cylinder wash. Would I still be receiving the CAN circuit failure OBD code because of a faulty fuel pump? Is it possible to rent a gauge to test the fuel pressure or must I purchase one? Thanks to all.
Last edited by TheStallion; 02-14-2014 at 01:53 PM. Reason: typo
#28
Fuel Pressure Test
I don't know if you have one near you, but this place OReilly's rents them -
Rental Tools | O'Reilly Auto Parts
Down near the bottom there is a fuel pressure test kit. I have no experience with them,
but it might be worth a try.
Rental Tools | O'Reilly Auto Parts
Down near the bottom there is a fuel pressure test kit. I have no experience with them,
but it might be worth a try.
#29
#30
#31
The CAN bus code is highly unlikely to be involved in a no-start. You need to read the pending codes. What you are trying to find is a fault with the MAF or TB, both of which are expensive and you don't want to trooubleshoot by changing them. Connect your code reader before turning on the ignition, then read both "pending" and ser codes.
The no tach question can lead to a diagnosis of a bad CKPS, although that is not very frequently reported on an X-308.
The fact that you have some fuel squirting out leads me away from the fuel pressure diagnosis.
You could try disconnecting the MAF and attemping a crank...
The no tach question can lead to a diagnosis of a bad CKPS, although that is not very frequently reported on an X-308.
The fact that you have some fuel squirting out leads me away from the fuel pressure diagnosis.
You could try disconnecting the MAF and attemping a crank...
Last edited by sparkenzap; 02-14-2014 at 08:01 PM.
#32
The CAN bus code is highly unlikely to be involved in a no-start. You need to read the pending codes. What you are trying to find is a fault with the MAF or TB, both of which are expensive and you don't want to trooubleshoot by changing them. Connect your code reader before turning on the ignition, then read both "pending" and ser codes.
The no tach question can lead to a diagnosis of a bad CKPS, although that is not very frequently reported on an X-308.
The fact that you have some fuel squirting out leads me away from the fuel pressure diagnosis.
You could try disconnecting the MAF and attemping a crank...
The no tach question can lead to a diagnosis of a bad CKPS, although that is not very frequently reported on an X-308.
The fact that you have some fuel squirting out leads me away from the fuel pressure diagnosis.
You could try disconnecting the MAF and attemping a crank...
#33
Direct answers to your questions:
1) The engine should fire, due to a backup fuel mapping strategy in the ECU
2) I would take a BIG vacuum leak to have no attempt to run
3) I believe the only part of the TB which could cause a no fire is the terminal connectors, but i think you said you already cleaned them. JTIS does mention TB cleaning for No Start, though. So clean if it makes you feel good, but I don't think it is likely to help
4) The brake switch will cause a RP, but will not cause a no start
5) The knock sensor will not cause a no start
It seems to me that you are doing a good job of researching what causes an RP, and since you were getting RP before the no start it is logical to consider what common failure can cause RP as well as no start. BUT, my opinion is that you are stabbing the dark.
There is a logical progression of how to diagnose a no start which is different from RP. The problmis that you do not have some basic diagnostic tools that can give the information needed to logically analyze this. You can many times fix the problem by changing the parts known to cause the symptoms, and that works, but it can be expensive and time consuming. I think it is better to do logical troubleshooting and for a no start that starts with Spark Fuel and Air.
Without diagnostic tools, ther eare still some ways to go through the logical troubleshooting procedure. I have tried to lead you there.
1) I asked about the tach and you have not replied decisively-
2) I gave you a method to check the spark- you have not replied. I do need to add that you must ground the body of the spark plug with a jumper
3) A knackered MAF can give highly erroneous signals to the ECU and disconnecting it can take that from the equation- and you have not tried that
4) Spend the time you would have used to clean the TB or changing the brake switch to get a fuel pressure test gauge. If you are going to own and maintain an X-308, you should own one of these anyway.
5) READ AND POST THE PENDING OBDII CODES, Read the codes after you have done the proper OBD reader connection procedure,- Connect powered off, then power up the car.
I realize I have not fully explained each step of the logical procedure, but I assure you I am not just randomly naming parts of the car.
Good luck.
1) The engine should fire, due to a backup fuel mapping strategy in the ECU
2) I would take a BIG vacuum leak to have no attempt to run
3) I believe the only part of the TB which could cause a no fire is the terminal connectors, but i think you said you already cleaned them. JTIS does mention TB cleaning for No Start, though. So clean if it makes you feel good, but I don't think it is likely to help
4) The brake switch will cause a RP, but will not cause a no start
5) The knock sensor will not cause a no start
It seems to me that you are doing a good job of researching what causes an RP, and since you were getting RP before the no start it is logical to consider what common failure can cause RP as well as no start. BUT, my opinion is that you are stabbing the dark.
There is a logical progression of how to diagnose a no start which is different from RP. The problmis that you do not have some basic diagnostic tools that can give the information needed to logically analyze this. You can many times fix the problem by changing the parts known to cause the symptoms, and that works, but it can be expensive and time consuming. I think it is better to do logical troubleshooting and for a no start that starts with Spark Fuel and Air.
Without diagnostic tools, ther eare still some ways to go through the logical troubleshooting procedure. I have tried to lead you there.
1) I asked about the tach and you have not replied decisively-
2) I gave you a method to check the spark- you have not replied. I do need to add that you must ground the body of the spark plug with a jumper
3) A knackered MAF can give highly erroneous signals to the ECU and disconnecting it can take that from the equation- and you have not tried that
4) Spend the time you would have used to clean the TB or changing the brake switch to get a fuel pressure test gauge. If you are going to own and maintain an X-308, you should own one of these anyway.
5) READ AND POST THE PENDING OBDII CODES, Read the codes after you have done the proper OBD reader connection procedure,- Connect powered off, then power up the car.
I realize I have not fully explained each step of the logical procedure, but I assure you I am not just randomly naming parts of the car.
Good luck.
Last edited by sparkenzap; 02-15-2014 at 03:13 AM.
#34
She lives! I checked the dipstick and was about 1 quart low on oil. It's also about 65 F out today, so I think that made a difference compared to single digit temps from before. I had to turn the key 4 times to get it to start, the tach jumped up to around 5000 RPM for a second or two, and then rested at around 1500 RPM for another few moments. I drove it on the expressway to blow out the white smoke. She runs just fine with the exception of a check engine light, which hopefully will disappear with time. I think I'll chalk this one up to cylinder wash. Thanks to everyone for your input.
#35
#37
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Breaux Bridge, Louisiana, US
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134 Posts
What color are the relays in the fuse boxes?
There was a service bulletin calling for replacement of the brown relays with black relays. The brown relays were burning the contacts.
I had a lot of similar issues that were solved by replacing the brown relays with black.
On my car the relay problems were intermittent.
There was a service bulletin calling for replacement of the brown relays with black relays. The brown relays were burning the contacts.
I had a lot of similar issues that were solved by replacing the brown relays with black.
On my car the relay problems were intermittent.
#38
The only reason I doubted a problem with the fuel system was from the fact that the Schrader valve squirted fuel when temperatures were still very cold. My relays are brown, so thanks for the heads up. After about 15 miles of driving the check engine light is now gone. The OBD code from earlier is still there, so of course I'll be mindful of that.
#40
I haven't determined the cause of my no start situation. The only difference between when the engine would not start and now (I've been driving it without any problems for 3 days now) is that the temperatures outside are 30 F - 40 F degrees warmer. The check engine light went out late Thursday night and has not returned. I am still receiving the OBD code P1642, which is a CAN circuit malfunction. Occasionally I will have windshield wipers that refuse to work, so I have to either clean the contacts or just switch the relays when that happens. The only message on the dashboard that I have received in the past three days is "Check Rear Lights" when applying the brakes. I'll have someone check if I have a tail light out and replace it promptly. The car is running very smoothly now after performing an oil change, replacing all 8 spark plugs, and installing a brand spanking new battery.