I do it on a sloping path on my back outside my house. The need for lifts, hoists etc, wtf for?

Lazy people!

 

Just to clarify, Motorcarman aknowledged the method in pointing out the risk. It was not an endorsement of the method.

Having said that, a big point is to unclip the fuel lines from their retainers all the way up to the front. That way they have the maximum wiggle room.

 

That sounds even better than the hard tubing first described as extenders by Avos, etc.

Removing the seat, cutting a hole, etc. seems like an awful lot of work compared to doing it the factory way. Not to mention the risk of damage to all those plastic bits. And yes, despite claims to the contrary, the rear shelf is a stress carrying panel. Cutting it results in reduced body stiffness.

 

People that know me would never call me lazy. And I have hands to prove it (calloused, cut, and scrapped from working on seven cars, three motorcycles, one airplane, six horses, and countless machinery, and guns). You obviously have a strong opinion about this, and that's OK. I respect your opinion, however.....there is always more than one way to skin the cat!

And I decided how to handle this one, long time ago. I am not even close (I hope!) to actually doing it, but I think going from the top is the right thing for ME, and that's the only thing I posted. I really don't care how anyone else did, or will approach this repair (replacement of the fuel pump/s). My situation on my ranch is different than yours, and I know what's best for ME.

I am not trying to convince ANYONE to do what I do, I am just stating what I will do, or what I did in the past. I am also not concerned about any damage (I had my seats out of this Jag before), and I know how to handle the wires that might be in the way (they are not), and I cut the GAS TANKS before without ANY issues (in this case, I will not even cut the tank!).

So,.....I hope you can respect my opinion on this, as much as I respect yours?

 

@Dan, just to point out something - you haven't done the job on this car and yet have formed an opinion, I'm offering advice as I've done it before, there's a difference.

 

Troops, peace.

 

I understand Sean. I've read MANY writeups on this job, and everyone said that it involves a LOT of cussing, few prayers, and a LOT of time and patience. I don't mind cussing,...spending all that time in the uniform, I have to put a concious effort not to insert profanities in my vocabulary, on a daily basis. I never pray. I don't have a lot of time, and I never had ANY patience!

I am a kind a guy that if I'm told that hitting my thumb with a hammer will hurt, I don't have to do it to be sure.

You have WAY more knowledge in X308 than I can ever hope to have. I REALLY didn't mean no disrespect to you, or the ABSOLUTELY correct procedure to change the fuel pump, you are advocating. I am 58 years old in the body that I abused over several wars, and a decade of motorcycle racing/accidents. For ME, laying on the creeper with my hands trying to reach fuel line clips, is NOT the right solution. And I don't have to try it first to be sure that it's not. Been there. On several vehicles. No more.

You've done it before, several times, and you know what you are talking about. I've never done it on X308 (did total of four on other vehicles over the years), but I've been living in this body for all these years, and I know what's best for ME.

 

Like Dan, I wasted youth in career uniform -- last time I was a pro, in college, the pros were setting points with dwell meters, the amateurs with feeler guages (except for those lovely Delco distributors) -- but I have worked on a lot of cars, and laying on my back trying to get at those fittings ain't looking like a joy: but neither is laying sparks with cutter over fuel lines! Maybe this is a job for Abacus when the time comes. But I could change fuel filter on my back: I'll bet those fittings are a bitch to get off and will drip like mad (easiest, ever, was the 94 Deville).

 

People can do it the way they want. On mine, in the driveway, on jackstands, I couldnt get my arms in there to put the release tool on the line. If i did push the tool up with a length of hose or something, how can I be sure to get the lines snapped back in later? I would have had to pull the rear diff or subframe. Would I do it to a customers car in a shop? no. On my own car? Yes. For the car not to have a round hole in the parcel shelf to change the pumps is just lame. There is an off center hole there already for the optional subwoofer. Why not just have designed the car with that hole moved over 6"

The only problem with the top method is the center reciever for the car seat strap will be gone. (2000-03) my 99 didnt have these. The piece I cut out was left out. Im not worried about structural strength being lost in the least.

I have a friend who worked at a jag dealer, and he said they had one skinny guy there who they had put his arms up there to release the lines for them. Nobody elses arms would fit. And thats with the car on a lift!!

 

Yup. My VDP has the hole for the subwoofer over there already. "One small hole more or less", should not affect anything. If I think it does (after I cut it out), I'll brace it (doubtfull). Since regular XJ8s don't have the subwoofer (the shelf is in one piece), my thinking is,.....hole for the speaker DID NOT compromise the structural integrity. So how would another (smaller) hole affect anything?

If your arms are skinny enough, if you have time and patience, by all means,....do it right. For ME, opening it from the top would be preferable.

Like I said: they had the car upside down when the tank was put in (SeanB confirmed that the axle was put in later!). Easy for them. Was it done on purpose? I think so. More money on the "back end" (service deps, and such, since the fuel pumps have very limited lifespan).

If it was designed to be "user friendly", it WOULD have a trap door over it (or at a very least, as you said, the subwoofer would've been possitioned directly above it!). It could've been done with the "trap door" on the regular models, and the speaker installed in the hole, on the ones with premium sound system.

Oversight? I don't think so. Those guys are SMART. If they did something like this, it was on purpose in order to further some agenda of the corporate bigwigs.

 

Having a friend who's a GM design engineer and another acquaintance who works for an automotive interior design firm that contracts with major manufacturers around the world, I can confirm the "agenda of the corporate bigwigs," at least in part.

The acquaintance has stated, point blank, that pretty much any car produced in the last 15 years or so had zero consideration of ongoing maintenance (including some regular maintenance) in mind. His statement, paraphrased, is, "The first and only priority is speed and convenience of manufacturing. Whatever gets it through assembly with the minimum of both time and human work is top priority. It's funny, but this topic came up with my mechanic when I dropped the car off yesterday. He commented that there are some cars he works on where components must be taken off to access the oil filter for a routine oil change. I do not know of any engineers in my social circle that would make such a design decision unless forced. Of course, would that more of them actually said, "No!!," to this specific sort of insanity.

One thing you have to see to believe is what is necessary to replace the blower motors in a Rolls-Royce Silver Seraph if they burn out. Unfortunately, they do so not infrequently because they were not even the slightest bit "overdesigned" and if the cabin filters, all four of them, are not changed religiously and clog, the extra effort they have to put in ends up destroying them. Here are two photos of the extent of interior removal necessary to get at these and, yes, the front seats & console do have to come out:

Picture 1 on Google Drive

Picture 2 on Google Drive

It's insanity!! We won't get into having to drop the engine from Bentley GTCs to replace the sparkplugs!

 

As pissy as the 308s are to work on, they seem like a piece of cake compared to some new iron, providing you can still get the parts.

 

I talked about this on this forum several times (making the cars hard to DIY on purpose). It's perfectly logical. Even there are more and more people on the planet, the car market is VERY limited. Only certain amount of people buy (and drive) cars. If you take that number (driving population on Earth), and divide it by the number of car manufaturers, you will see how many units each of them COULD sell. When you factor demographics, price range, and other factors (labor costs/component cost in different parts of the world), you can see a rough market share each of them could attain (there a LOT more factors to consider, but I will not go any deeper than this).

In order to increase profits (ever higher demanding by the share holders!), they HAD TO find the way to make that money (grabbing a larger market share is VERY hard!!). Hence,.....cars with the limited lifespan (either as a whole unit, or certain components). We (as humans) have the technology TODAY, to produce cars that would last a "lifetime" of the original purchaser (with minimum maintenance). We had that technology for decades (e.g. look at diesel Daimlers that boast 1 million miles on the clock, or more).

So now (in the last 15-20 years), you have more and more vehicles that require "special tools", special procedures, "dealer only parts", etc. Long gone are the days when all American cars (example) shared the headlight units, and you could pick up a headlight in ANY parts store for cheap (remember?).

I understand the "purists" frustration with unorthodox approach to some repairs, but I take some perverse pleasure of circumventing the "prescribed" methods of repair, whenever I can (see my post about changing tensioners and chains with no more than Alan wrench, set of 1/4" drive sockets, and a torpedo level). As much as "they" want to "stick it to me", I strive to "fight back", and find a way to "outsmart them". Example,.....my S430. You should see what this "marvel of German technology" has for it's troubled "Airmatic Suspension"!! A compressor mounted in front of the pass side wheel well, that looks like kids in the elementary school (kindergarten!!) designed for a science project! Air shocks have rubber bladders, that wear through, and the whole system is fed by 1/4" PVC (!!!!) tubing (I'm sure you all know how many times you can heat and cool PVC before it cracks?). ONE (substandard) component failure, and the car goes on the flatbed. Not driveable,.....not at all. As soon as I had a first "glitch" in this "system", I yanked the whole abomination out, and installed "coil over" suspension. The car drives like a charm. Sure,.....I can't raise the MF two inches up or down any more, but why in the hell I would want to in the first place!?

Anyway,.....I bored you enough with my opinions, and I promise, I'll go away from this thread, and never return!

Over and out.

 

Unless you gave those Cats away, you'll be back. Wait till you see what awaits on the Range Rover: frightful supplier issues . . .

It has been fun

 

I find the 308 surprisingly easy to work on, except for a few gotchas, the heater hoses and fuel pumps being two that should be easier to deal with.

As I originally said, I tip my hat to those who do it "right". I really do. But my arms are obviously too short and fat, as 2.5 hours under the car convinced me of it. Any port in a storm is my motto. Having said that, I think it entirely reasonable to take an alternative route to a solution if the primary solution fails. If you could disconnect those lines you are a better man than I, or at least have more experience or long thin arms. I am also an older guy, 63, with decent mechanic skills, but all self-taught, the hard way. Its jack stands and creepers for me, unless I can talk my bro-n-law to let me use his lift!

God forbid, next time I cut the panel.

Thanks from Northern California for all who contributed to this thread, it has helped me out greatly, and it has even become entertaining. This is a tremendous resource, and I also thank the people who keep it going.