2000 XJ8 65K miles.

12-10-12, I drove to my mailbox 2 blocks away with plans to drive to other places after getting the mail. Car started fine as usual. Battery is only a few weeks old. When attempting to start it after getting the mail -- it would not start! Ended up pushing it (with a neighbor) 2 blocks in front of my house. Hoped to read tips on this forum to get it started so, I could drive it to the dealer the next day. Spent hours reading the no start tips & many other posts.

It cranked OK. Lights, locks & windows worked OK. No Check Engine or any other warning lights display. OBD-2 tester showed no codes except the P1111, OK code. I tried turning Cruise Control on & off many times in case it was related to that brake switch replacement from 3 days ago. I cycled ignition several times. I tried alternating between Park & Neutral positions for gear shift. I tried pressing accelerator pedal to floor & holding it. Tried slowly letting up on pedal as crank it. Never an attempt to start, just cranking sounds. I checked 8 different fuses in 3 boxes related to fuel & Ignition & all looked good. A neighbor looked/listened to engine as I cranked & Engine WAS turning over. When I turn ignition on & off w/o trying to start, fuel injectors were clicking. Couldn’t be the inertia switch since locks, lights & windows & wiper worked. I have no ability to check for fuel pressure. (Neither skill nor tools & don’t want to be sprayed in the face anyway) I did not remove the Ignition coil & check for spark. I was worried that it may be the dreaded cylinder wash since I believe I do have the Nikasil Engine block.

I didn’t think my fuel pump could have a sudden, complete, catastrophic failure with absolutely no stalling or sputtering or warning of any kind. It was cold & I started & drove a very short distance & shut it off so the engine did not warm up. But, I’ve been getting the mail as my 1st stop for many years w/o trouble.

Had it towed next day, 12-11-12.

Was the Fuel Pump per Dealer. (Even though they said Fuel filter was OK, I had them change it too since I think it is original one & really s/b changed each 30K miles & will be from now on. I think I’ll DIY next time seems easy with only a small amount of fuel dripping when remove old filter according to what I’ve read)

Repair was delayed since mechanic said the bracket to drop gas tank would not release (wtf?) So, he had to drain fuel in an alternate, slower way.
Get car back a couple days later (12-13-12) end of day. Service Adviser (S.A.) said the mechanic was able to fix the gas tank bracket problem. When I asked what caused bracket problem, he didn’t know, maybe corrosion? S.A. also said there were problems with return hose & leaks.
Invoice states: “Drained fuel tank. Found return side fuel pipe leaked. Replaced Fuel pump. Replaced relay. Found return hose loose inside fuel tank. Refit hose onto fitting & re-secured hose clamp. Refilled tank & test drove.”

Car starts & drives fine now.

Some issues I have:

1) 10 gallons gas “missing” (I’m positive w/in 0.5 gallons) (Is my expensive gas now in mechanic’s car?)

2) Battery drain hose left off, I reattached (sloppy)

3) Trunk now makes noise when open & close & feels different.



4) S.A. said a taillight was out & they replaced it. I check ALL my lights at least 2x/month using shop window reflections at night --it takes less than 10 seconds & is a habit of mine. If a tail light was out, mechanic probably caused it while working in trunk for hours. Maybe he accidentally kicked the cover over tail lights & the shock broke a filament?

5) Main complaint: All my J-Gate backlighting is now mysteriously out! It was working perfectly when I brought car in. Also the Sports mode switch backlight is out. Not sure if J-Gate uses 2 or 3 bulbs. Note: the Cruse Control master switch (next to Sports switch) had been out for a year. The red Light for both sports & CC still works when either is activated. I notice exactly what was on or off since I’ve been researching how to fix that CC bulb & as some of you know from posts, photos videos on this forum--it is somewhat involved & requires soldering a replacement Radio Shack bulb plus you can easily break some circuit board & perhaps damage your wood. According to my Vehicle Care Handbook,4-19. Fuse box located Left (Driver in USA) heel board has Fuse # 16 which seems relevant. That circuit has:

Electrochromic interior mirror (where fitted),
centre console switchpack, gear selector,
traction control switch illumination, J-gate
mode switch illumination. Pin A9 luggage
compartment fuse box, heated rear window
relay, fuel pump relay, secondary fuel pump
relay (supercharged). Pin A5: feed to fuses 10
& 12 in right-hand heelboard.

Since that circuit has both the J-Gate bulbs plus the fuel pump relay, I seriously doubt it is a coincidence! Perhaps some electrical surge while he was repairing the fuel pump? I checked the fuse & it is OK. However, the manual lists it as a 5A fuse & a 10A one is in place now. I checked the other 17 fuses & all are exactly the correct amperage as per manual. So, did he blow the fuse, burn out my bulbs & the fuse & replace it with the wrong amperage fuse? BTW, I swapped the 10A for a 5A & bulbs still out. so I put the 10A one back in place.

I’m going to do nothing about issues 1-4. I will call & mention them to S.A. Monday.
I want issue #5, bulbs fixed at N/C by Jaguar Dealer.

Comments welcome.

Thanks,

Steve

 

Steve:
Your experience is why many of us do our own work even though it would be faster and (potentially) cheaper to have the dealer or an indie do the work. We might not be as "good" as the dealer mechanic, but at least we know what we kicked, what we broke, what we saw ans so on.

Ohter random comments- 1)The fuel pump can certainly fail without warning. In fact, I believe that is the most common failure mode.
2)You said "was the fuel filter per Dealer" Was that a typo? If not, why did he change the pump?
3) Good luck on the various complaints of other problems. Yes, they MIGHT have had some relationship to the primary repair, however replacing the fule pump, or even shorting that circuit would be very unlikely to cause a "surge". Dc voltage in a car just does not "surge". Short, yes. Open circuit, yes. Surge , no. In general, see my first paragraph.

 

Hi Ross,


Oops! Bad typo, I edited post. Yes, Dealer said it was the fuel PUMP that caused the no start. I replaced the Fuel Filter even though it was NOT the problem bc It probably was the original one & now almost 65K miles.

RE J-Gate bulbs, I’m guessing but, absolutely do not believe it is just a coincidence that 3-5 bulbs just happened to all fail at once as it was in the shop.

Thanks,

Steve
======

 

Well, the one thing it could be is an overly enthusiastic battery charge. You might ask them if they let the battery go down and had to charge it.

 

I called Jaguar spoke to my S.A. I’ll bring car in Wed AM re J-Gate bulbs. He said maybe when fuel pump went out, it blew bulbs on that circuit? I said if that is common why isn’t it Jaguar tech procedure to check for that & repair it b4 releasing car back to customer with multiple bulbs out.

He said the battery drainage tube should not have been disconnected & the battery should not have been removed, just disconnected. I obviously fixed that in 2 seconds but pointed it out as evidence of carelessness. (I bet the tech removed the battery & the spare tire to give himself more room when working in the trunk for hours. I had noticed the spare tire retaining screw was loose.) Today the trunk noise is much better so, I asked if he thought having the trunk in the full open position for a day causes a temporary noise issue with the trunk lid shocks. He said yes.

He offered to buy me a tank of gas for the missing 10 gallons & said that drained gas is in the dealer tank & the tech probably forgot to look to see how much to put back in. I refused the offer of a tank of gas (foolish?) I said I just wanted that J-Gate illumination problem fixed.

I mentioned the 10A vs. 5A situation but he didn’t comment. I assume when Jaguar engineers/electricians design circuits & fuses they have a reason why a circuit is protected with a specific amperage. So, it s/b “easier” to blow a 5A fuse vs. a 10A fuse. I think I want that incorrect 10A replaced with the correct 5A but, I’ll see what they say.

 

I guess I'm just lucky! I don't trust ANY shops. I "need" to be involved in any repair on my vehicles (either DIY, or watching my mechanic while he is doing it!). But I like to work on the machinery, AND I have plenty of time. Something like this would drive me up the wall. To most people little things don't matter that much,......to me,....everything needs to be in perfect working order, or I can't sleep (OCD maybe?) at night. That's the main reason I wrench on my own machines.

The J gate bulbs got shorted out, ....most likely the whole circuit board. Why? Most likely they didn't disconnect the battery until they caused the short. We can only speculate at this point. You should've taken the gas offer, AND make them fix everything else.

Finding a good, and trustworthy mechanic in the area you live in, is extremely important.

 

Well, the troubleshooting procedure might have caused a high current condition that burned some conductors or even the circuit board, but I will guarantee it did not burn out the light bulbs. It just does not work that way.

 

Well I did this repair myself with my Dad. To replace the fuel pump requires removing the gas tank which is in the trunk. SOOOOOO....that means battery is in the trunk, yup it has to come out, not just disconnect since its a safety issue...gas and power...not good. The spare tire has to come out so you can get to the bolts that hold the straps onto the gas tank. From what I've read the J-gate bulbs are notorious for burning out as well as the backlighting for our window switches. I have no J-gate bulbs, and only 2 window buttons are illuminated. I'm not really worried about them...yeah it would be nice to have them working, but I have 193K miles on my jag...was original pump and original fuel filter. It is aggravating to take your car somewhere and it come back and something else is now not working. One thing I can't get is this car tells you when a bulb is out in the rear so you would have known if you had a bulb out period. Glad your car is running again!

 

Car in to Jaguar today to finish what was supposed to be done 12-19-2012.

Quick summary:
12-13-2012 Fuel pump replaced & afterwards I saw all my J-Gate back lights were suddenly out! Also out were Cruise Control & Sports Mode button back lights. Previously, only the CC backlight was out.

12-19-2012 bring in car to have them assess & hopefully fix @ N/C. Got free rental & left car.
12-20-2012 Car was not touched due to death in the family of the mechanic. I gave them time.

1-28-2013 Brought car in as arranged last week to finally finish this.

Waited for it for 2 hours. SA says all the bulbs/LEDs are burned out yet, it has nothing to do with the fuel pump replacement according to the mechanic! Different circuit than J-Gate bulbs. I say yes, but Fuel pump relay is on the same circuit, fuse #16 & show in owners manual. SA says we didn’t replace the FP relay, I say yes you did. He looks it up & they did replace it just as I said. More phone conversations between SA & mechanic. Mechanic still claims he didn’t cause this. Must have been a voltage surge. I say, yes from something done during the FP relay replacement. Mechanic still denies responsibility. SA wants to help anyway. Says cost to repair is $850.00+ (wtf?!)
He asks boss & tries to get it for N/C but boss only agrees to pay 1/2. They don’t replace/solder bulbs/LEDs. Want to replace 2 modules (circuit boards with the bulbs/LEDs) Expensive parts + 1.5 hours labor. I know people on this forum have soldered $2 radio shack bulbs to fix these lights.

I refused to pay $450+ for what I am convinced is a problem caused by Jaguar.

SA was very nice & wanted to help but, was going by what the mechanic was telling him. Yet, I wasted even more time today & have no fix.

I’ll post this J-gate bulb issue in a new thread.