Morning all,
I learned a great lesson this past week as it relates to used cars. Now in the past, i've found sellers of specialty and enthusiasts cars to be generally honest and trustworthy. I've purchased a few 90s cars and at the very least, if a seller didn't know much about the car mechanically, they would be forthcoming about it.

Well, I recently encountered the exact opposite in the purchase of my 99 XJR. Now, I take a lot of responsibility here as I was more trusting than i should have been and did not ask for verification of certain things. So here we go.

I saw the car listed on ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/27526617944...p2047675.l2557

It looked clean, price was ok, and it had some pretty decent info regarding repairs, specifically the all so critical timing chain tensioners (and less critical chain kit). The seller claimed he did all this work and put new tires on it. The guy was certainly very unusual and cringy on the sales bluffery, but I'm fairly well versed on cars, so the few things I saw in person didn't bother me too much. Furthermore, he stated that he was part owner of a jaguar specific shop, owned dozens of these cars, and was very familiar. When he said things that were blatantly untrue (i.e. there was no change from nikasil to iron liners), i figured out very quickly that he didn't know what he was talking about, but figured the shop would have done the work. I also figured that would be why there were no receipts, since he wouldn't be billing himself. I'm an idiot, I know.

So, I pick the car up, generally drives pretty good. Right away I can tell there are certain needs despite the claims that the car needed nothing. Nothing major like front shock mount bushings and maybe some shocks all around. The important part is that the car was clean, mostly straight, and had essentially no rust.

So once I get this thing home, I start going over things. Some obvious boneheaded mistakes like the wrong air filter, new pads on rotors with quite a lip, no battery hold down bracket, some missing trim screws etc. I dig a little deeper and find that the idler and tensioner pullies all have shot bearings, so I made quick work of resolving that.

While at it, however, I'm noticing that the car has a lot of oily grime on the timing cover, some of it beneath the cam covers. Given that this car supposedly had timing chain work done recently, you would think that they would have cleaned the timing cover. hmmm. So this began gnawing at me, so I said let me verify this tensioner bit.

Well, here was the outcome:





yea....so basically this guy just flat out lied. Some (including me) would call it fraud. I was so pis*ed that night I couldn't sleep. For someone less mechanically inclined, they may not have figured this out and could have grenaded their engine. How some people live with themselves, I'm not sure.

Nevertheless, after getting over the anger, I took a look and found that the guides were in excellent shape, no cracks when viewed with mirrors, borescope, etc. The secondary tensioners, while original, were actually pristine. And overall, the cylinder head looked very clean. I attribute this to regular oil changes, which is a good thing. So at this point, I'm not overly concerned about the health of the motor.






Nevertheless, I ordered the secondary tensioners and cover gaskets and will swap them out. I'm going to leave the primaries for now as they seem to be in perfect condition, but will re-evaluate when I decide how much I like the car in a year or so.

So, at the end of the day, its not going to cost me much beyond a few hundred bucks and some time in the garage....but others may not be so lucky.

The lesson I learned is that you should trust absolutely nothing a seller tells you unless their story 100% matches and you have receipts to back it up. Even then...verify everything you can.

Thanks for listening to me rant.

 

I remember my Dad, referring to some people he dealt with as a "used car salesman". At the time, I was quite young but knew that these people did not have a used car lot. It wasn't till years later I finally got the connection.
Today, I doubt I would buy a used car from anybody that did not have verification of work performed and even then I would check it myself. (if possible) Ebay sellers are usually far from ebay buyers, so that would be difficult.
The X308 series are very fine automobiles, yet there are so many intricate variables which determine their viability and worth to the individual. In my mind there are few vehicles that reflect the quiet composure yet fierce performance
of the X308 breed. It goes without saying that the lines of these Jaguars are timeless and illicit countless nods and looks of appreciation wherever they go. Knowing all the things we know now, it is undoubtable we would have
engineered many things differently. That said, we have this wonderful forum, which when used to advantage, keeps us apprised of what to keep on the watch for, and how to prepare for and repair the worst of it.

It is quite likely that many can fall prey to an unscrupulous seller, however we are surely glad your experience did not deal you a bad hand. Your "rant" could actually be a positive influence for future Jaguar owners.

 

That engine is spotless inside!
Usually it's pretty black after all those years so I agree it looks like nice regular oil changes were done on the car from the beginning.
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Yes, I was very pleased at the condition of the internals. Cams look pristine. Also as a nikasil motor, there was concern of oil in the intake, but i found essentially none (just a bit of sticky residue). Overall, i think the car will be a good one, not necessarily as a result of the prior owner. I have spent hours cleaning up the motor, valve covers, so now it looks as good outside as inside.

 

At the risk of talking to myself, job is done, tensioners went in easily, triple checked timing with paint dots and straight edges. Car fired right up.

Then had to diagnose and fix a cut wire to the canister close valve and now should be all set in xjr land

 

Glad to see a successful repair! That's NOT an easy job either.
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Glad that things turned out well for you. The only proof that you can reliably accept are receipts and work orders.The seller's word won't go very far. I would never call anyone a liar, I'd just say, "too bad that you didn't save the receipts and walk away. I never used to save paperwork, probably because all my old cars were worth very little. Now I save everything, shop work orders, parts receipts if I do the work myself. I bought a '92 Nissan 300ZX that had a completely rebuilt engine. All receipts and work orders were accounted for. This same paperwork made the sale of the car a few year later much easier.

 

I don't know about america. But in Finland there is rule called rear light warranty. That means when buyer buys a car from the private person everything the seller says goes out of the window in case of complain after new owner drives out of sight. When buying from the car dealer private or not then there is possibility of complain next week or two.

 

Thats generally the story in the us a well. Buyer beware in other words. That said, blatant false representations can lead to a victorious result in small claims court. In this case, no real harm was done and even if i had to go in and do primary guides and tensioners, its not that big a deal. Just never been lied to so clearly before.

Whats done is done, car is fixed, and im over it.

 

Then there is the massive difference where seller doesn't just know or have been noticed. And where seller just simply fully lies. Sometimes here liar private sellers get gaught by police.

 

I am unsure how a buyer would be able to prove what a seller claimed or did not claim unless it is in writing.
I am sure...that when the sellers I have had direct dealings with, refuse to substantiate claims in the contract, the buyer heads for the hills.

 

Did you drop the oil pan and clean out the pan and oil pickup?

 

Nothing really to clean. The original tensioners were fully intact, there was no evidence of excessive or sloppy rtv application, and there were no pieces missing from the primary guides, so im not sure what would be clogging the pick up

 

That's good news.

 

If you would look at the pictures he posted that engine is spotless! I would never drop a pan on an engine that looked like that. Just no reason.
To bad it had tensioner problems but after the repair he should not have any further problems as it appears to have had good maintenance at least considering oil changes.
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That's the exact reason I dropped mine, it was spotless as well, and found the primary guide pieces in it. Plus, once I saw those orange tensioners, it was telltale. Even though he said his guides were all together, your there, this is literally about a 20 minute process to one of the most important parts of the motor.

My perspective is, better to have checked it then to have not and find you should have after it broke.
Remember, these cars are 20+ yrs old, never trust someone else's work.

 

Man, sorry to hear about this. He sells a lot of these cars and I wouldn't believe a word he says. I have never met him in person or went to look at any of the cars, but he's flat out lied to me over the phone/email and could just tell something was "off" about him so I've avoided him.

I remember seeing this one come up for sale and thought it was really nice, hopefully everything works out and it doesn't cost too much to get right. It really is a beautiful car.

Could be a lot worse - I once bought a really low mileage Camaro Z28 out of North Jersey that the owner had parked on the street when I arrived and insisted I park it there when we got back from the test drive. I thought it was a bit odd since he had a huge driveway, but the car was in pristine condition with low mileage and everything looked good so I bought it. It was a 6-Speed T56 car and the first time I went to back it out of my garage after I got home I realized why - The reverse synchro was gone...haha. Was only a couple hundred bucks to fix and was able to put a new clutch in, but that was my first "lesson" when buying used performance cars.

 

If you are speaking of the Ebay seller the original poster listed in the first posting.
It should be noted, he has no feedback for the last 12 months at all. He currently has
a '90 Corvette listed for about $10K.

 

Yes, same guy. He makes new accounts all the time. I can tell by the pictures, always the same spot. Used to sell on CL too I believe, that's where I contacted him back in 2020 before I ended up buying my 03 R1.

Was reading his ad on the Corvette he currently has for sale and its a joke. Nobody would rebuild the engine, trans, suspension, interior on a 90 Vette if they were not keeping it. Especially not if they were selling it for $10k. Would love to see the receipts on that one...oh wait. What a snake, glad the OP made out OK and also happy my gut was correct, this is a guy to stay away from. Had a terrible feeling about him.

 

Wow, interesting to see this individual's history. I wish I could warn others about him. He was a total weirdo if I'm honest and I probably should have bailed, but I trusted enough of my ability to spot issues in pictures that I took a chance. Given that there aren't too many of the supercharged cars in nice condition floating around and this was an hour away, i figured it was worth the risk. The whole thing was slimy and he just wouldn't stop talking. A real doofus.

That said, aside from typical suspension wear on a 23 year old luxury car with 87k miles, the car seems to be in good shape. And thats despite this clown, not because of him.

Thanks for all the support folks.