Hello,
I am new to this forum and this is my first post here. I am diagnosing a no start with my '01 XJ8. I have replaced the Crank Position Sensor initially because it appeared that the tach did not move off 0 rpm when cranking but not starting. Still no start. That was easy enough and the original had over 100K on it so while it did not fix the issue, I feel it was worth the 15 minutes. I have since made sure that the battery has a full charge and is filled with distilled water appropriately. I am now focusing on the Fuel System. I am going to check fuel pressure before and after the regulator and also spark.

I am looking for some DIY articles that forum members may have contributed that show the layout of the fuel system etc. Anything would help. I have ordered some manuals on CD for this model off eBay but they have not arrived yet.

Thanks in advance for any help and pointers to additional information.

Pat

 

Ask and you shall receive. First, have you checked fuel pressure? There is a schrader valve on the fuel rail. It should have a blue cap on it. Poke it down see if feul comes out. You can also hook up fuel pressure gauge to it. How does it sound while you try to start it? Incidentally as you found out, the tach will not move until vehicle starts. Factory tool will measure it. But thats really neither here nor there.

Starting System
newStep(0); Inspection and Verification newStep(0); document.write(languageText("warning")); WARNING: Make sure the vehicle is in NEUTRAL or PARK for vehicles with automatic transmission, NEUTRAL for vehicles with manual transmission, and apply the parking brake. Failure to follow this instruction may result in personal injury.
stepNum(0); 1 . Verify the customer concern.

stepNum(0); 2 . Visually inspect for obvious signs of mechanical or electrical damage, correct fitment, etc.

Visual Inspection Chart newStep(0); Mechanical Electrical [ul][*]Starter motor[*]Flywheel ring gear[*]Engine seized [/ul] [ul][*]Battery condition, state of charge[*]Starter motor[*]Fuse 3 of the EMS fuse box[*]High power protection module[*]Starter relay[*]Ignition switch[*]Wiring harness(es)[*]Damaged, loose or corroded connectors[*]Body processor module (BPM)[*]Engine Control Module (ECM) [/ul]
stepNum(0); 1 . If an obvious cause for an observed or reported concern is found, correct the cause (if possible) before proceeding to the next step.

stepNum(0); 2 . If the concern is not visually evident, refer to the Diagnostic trouble code (DTC) index.

newStep(0); document.write(languageText("caution")); CAUTION: When probing connectors to take measurements in the course of the pinpoint tests, use the adaptor kit, part number 3548-1358-00. Failure to follow this instruction may result in damage to the vehicle.
document.write(languageText("note")); NOTE:
When performing electrical voltage or resistance tests, always use a digital multimeter (DMM) accurate to 3 decimal places, and with an up-to-date calibration certificate. When testing resistance, always take the resistance of the DMM leads into account.
document.write(languageText("note")); NOTE:
Check and rectify basic faults before beginning diagnostic routines involving pinpoint tests.
Symptom (general) Symptom (specific) Possible source Action Non-Start Engine does not crank [ul][*]Engine siezed[*]Battery and/or cables[*]Inhibitor circuit[*]Starter motor[*]Starter relay[*]Ignition switch[*]ECM relay[*]Body processor module [/ul] Check that the engine turns. Check the battery condition and state of charge. For starter motor and cable tests, document.write(languageText("gotopinpoint")); GO to Pinpoint Test G289795p1.
. For ECM relay tests,<<303-14>> Engine cranks too fast/slow [ul][*]Battery and/or cables[*]Starter motor[*]Cylinder compression [/ul] Check the battery condition and state of charge. For starter motor and cable tests, document.write(languageText("gotopinpoint")); GO to Pinpoint Test G289795p1.
. Check compressions.
Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Index newStep(0); DTC Description Possible Source Action P1245 Engine crank signal low voltage [ul][*]Starter relay coil to ECM/BPM circuit open circuit [/ul] For starter relay circuit tests, document.write(languageText("gotopinpoint")); GO to Pinpoint Test G289795p2.
. P1246 Engine crank signal high voltage [ul][*]Starter relay coil to ECM/BPM circuit short circuit to B+ voltage[*]BPM failure [/ul] For starter relay circuit tests, document.write(languageText("gotopinpoint")); GO to Pinpoint Test G289795p2.
.
Pinpoint Tests newStep(0); document.write(languageText("pinpoint")); PINPOINT TEST G289795p1 : CHECK THE POWER SUPPLY, GROUND AND TRIGGER TO THE STARTER CIRCUIT G289795t1 : CHECK THE VOLT DROP ACROSS THE STARTER CIRCUIT 1. Measure the volt drop across the circuit between the battery positive terminal and the starter motor terminal, ST01. [ul][*]Is the volt drop greater than 1 volt? [/ul]-> document.write(languageText("yes")); Yes
CHECK the battery connections, cable connections at false bulkhead stud connector, and starter motor. Make sure all connections are in good condition and secure. If all connections are sound, INSTALL a new battery lead. <<414-01>> TEST the system for normal operation.

-> document.write(languageText("no")); No
document.write(languageText("gotopinpoint")); GO to Pinpoint Test G289795t2.


G289795t2 : CHECK THE VOLT DROP ACROSS THE STARTER CIRCUIT (CRANKING) 1. Disable the fuel or ignition system to prevent the engine starting. 2. Turn the ignition switch to the CRANK position. 3. Measure the volt drop across the circuit between the battery positive terminal and the starter motor terminal, ST01. [ul][*]Is the volt drop greater than 1 volt? [/ul]-> document.write(languageText("yes")); Yes
CHECK the battery connections, cable connections at false bulkhead stud connector, and starter motor. Make sure all connections are in good condition and secure. If all connections are sound, INSTALL a new battery lead. <<414-01>> TEST the system for normal operation.

-> document.write(languageText("no")); No
document.write(languageText("gotopinpoint")); GO to Pinpoint Test G289795t3.


G289795t3 : CHECK THE GROUND TO THE STARTER MOTOR 1. Measure the resistance between the engine GROUND lead and the starter motor body. [ul][*]Is the resistance greater than 5 ohms? [/ul]-> document.write(languageText("yes")); Yes
CLEAN the connection between the starter motor body and it's fittings, recheck the resistance. TEST the system for normal operation.

-> document.write(languageText("no")); No
document.write(languageText("gotopinpoint")); GO to Pinpoint Test G289795t4.


G289795t4 : CHECK THE STARTER SIGNAL FROM THE STARTER RELAY 1. Remove the fuel pump relay. 2. Disconnect the starter motor signal electrical connector, ST03 (WR). 3. Turn the ignition switch to the CRANK position. 4. Measure the voltage between ST03 (WR) and GROUND. [ul][*]Is the voltage less than 10 volts? [/ul]-> document.write(languageText("yes")); Yes
document.write(languageText("gotopinpoint")); GO to Pinpoint Test G289795t5.


-> document.write(languageText("no")); No
INSTALL a new starter motor.
getLink("Starter Motor - ","G222860"); TEST the system for normal operation.

G289795t5 : CHECK THE STARTER SIGNAL CIRCUIT FOR HIGH RESISTANCE 1. Remove the starter relay. 2. Measure the resistance between the starter relay base, pin 05 and ST03 (WR). [ul][*]Is the resistance greater than 5 ohms? [/ul]-> document.write(languageText("yes")); Yes
REPAIR the high resistance circuit. For additional information, refer to the wiring diagrams. CLEAR the DTC. TEST the system for normal operation.

-> document.write(languageText("no")); No
document.write(languageText("gotopinpoint")); GO to Pinpoint Test G289795t6.


document.write(languageText("pinpoint")); PINPOINT TEST G289795p2 : DTC P1245, P1246; ENGINE CRANK SIGNAL HIGH/LOW VOLTAGE G289795t6 : CHECK THE STARTER RELAY 'ACTIVATE' SIGNAL AT THE RELAY BASE 1. Remove the starter relay. 2. Turn the ignition switch to the CRANK position. 3. Measure the resistance between the relay

 

That is exactly what I was looking for. I will let you know how the Fuel Pressure test comes out.

Thanks again for everything,

pat

 

No problem. Sorry about the giberish, but it is easier to copy and paste that stuff than trying to type it out. If you need anything else, or assistance finding any of those components let us know. Start with fuel pressure test though. Should be about 45-50psi

 

Thanks again... So I have about 42psi at the fuel rail off the schrader valve port. That was a handy little deal, I wish I had that on my truck. Also, when attempting to start it simply cranks over and over. I recharged the battery this afternoon so it cranks strong. Almost like you would expect it to fire. What about the ignition? I pulled the top cover off one of the valve covers that expose the spark plugs. I assume those are indivdual coils on each cylinder. What would be the best way to check to see if they are getting energized? I noticed in the initial reply from FactoryJaguarTech that there is a starter relay circuit.

If it is cranking over strong and it has 40 psi at the fuel rail, then what is left?? Ignition system.

Also FactoryJaguarTech , The gibberish is fine. I am a software engineer so it makes perfect sense.

Pat

 

you sir are a very smart tech, i wish i could find someone like you in my area to work on my car

 

A little more info. after looking over the ignition system I went back and tried to start the car except this time I pumped the accelerator pedal a few times while cranking it and it began to kick over a bit. It did not start, but it felt like it was going to fire. I smelled the familiar smell of burnt fuel so I am now thinking that it is the injector drive circuit, or whatever signals the injectors to fire.

Pat

 

From your description, sounds like it is flooded.
Hold pedal to floor (clear flood mode) and crank it while still cranking let off pedal. And repeat.
DO NOT let go of key. You may have to crank it for a few minutes.
Don't worry the starter can take it, as long as the battery holds up. May want to put
charger on it while cranking.
let us know.
and thanks world power. What area you in?
nNorcal, if while cranking it sounded like caught for a second indicative of flooded.
pretty common on xj and xk. You may also want to clean throttle plate and part load breather hose.

 

I tried that with the understanding that holding the pedal to the floor cuts off fuel delivery. I am worried that the starter is getting hot though. While on the subject of batteries. I have a charger on the battery now running it at "Quick Charge" I also can set it to jump start mode where it will deliver about 100 amps. I have noticed that there is a connection under the hood for jump starting where you just ground to the engine / chassis. What is the recommended way to attach a charger and / or jump start these cars given the battery is in the trunk.

 

Definitley straight to battery. The sterter will get hot, trust me it can handle it. Do it every other day.
Put charger on jump start then crank away. Once you start cranking don't let off
also as isaid make sure throttle plate is clean and moves.

 

Throttle plate is clean and moves freely. I retried the pedal to the floor and cranking it over methiod. I cranked for what seemed like eternity. It wants to fire, but does not seem to catch. I am lettig things cool down and allow the battery to catch up on the charger. I will go back out in about an half an hour and try it again with the charger on jump start mode. I there any other way to "air" the engine out? Or turn the fuel system off so it does not dump additional fuel into the engine.

Again, Thanks for all your help. I really appreciate youe effort. This has become one of those problems one can't let go until resolved.

Pat

 

try taking the spark plus out and cleaning them. Put them back in and try again. You can pull the fuel pump relay. That will disable fuel. You want leave fuel enabled though so when it starts it will run. Relay is in trunk box by battery. Standing at back looking down second from left middle row.
you smell fuel coming from pipes while cranking?

 

Update: I got it to roll over after cranking forever. I kept the starter engaged while it sputtered to life and ran, but it did not stay running. Comparable to the first Wright brothers flight, left the ground for a second and then back down again. But a success none the less.

There has to be something else within the fuel delivery system that is keeping it from getting the correct amount of fuel. I should have my Jaguar specific scanner software by tomorrow morning. What DTC codes might I see related to the fuel system, ignition system, etc? I read the complete troubleshooting steps that FactoryJaguarTech posted (Thanks a million) and have followed as much as possible considering I am missing some of the PinPoint precedures and references.

So any help with next steps would be great.. Patience is a virtue..

ON EDIT: Yes I smell fuel coming from the exhaust all the while cranking. I pulled the top cover off the valve cover and found individual coils / plugs. I pulled one off but what I found does not look like a spark plug that I remember. Pardon the ignorance, but I spend most of my time in the Diesel world. How do I get to the plugs as I would like to change them out if I am in there.

I have ordered a couple Manuals on CD off eBay. I don't want to sound ignorant here, but I am kind of flying blind when it comes to component locations etc...

Thanks for all the help,
Pat

 

sent you pm. Call MRE would be easier to explain

 

Back in Business. As luck would have it it was the simplest of fixes. It was flooded. So following the advice of FactoryJaguarTech I just kept the starter running with the pedal to the floor and as it started to fire erratically I feathered the pedal off the floor and back until it fired up in a cloud of unburnt fuel. Once it was up to about 1500 rpm I let off the starter and viola, back to normal. Left it running and took it for a 10 mile run and all is well. It started again twice since then so I am closing this one as a success.

I can't thank this forum enough, especially FactoryJaguarTech. His help was above and beyond the expectations of a self help forum. Every once in a while you're reaffirmed of the positive aspects of humanity.

Pat

 

Glad it worked out for you mate. Good luck with the car and thanks for the kind words of apprecition.
It means alot to help people.

 

i wonder where that diag sheet came from.. lol

 

it's easy for me and you to get this car running after from being flooded.. but i find lots of shops get flusterd and dizzy even tho it's pretty easy and a money maker.

 

lol...no kidding. I love flooded cars. Also the water in the gas cars!!!! Cha Ching. I don't feel guilty about those ones because gas station pays the repair. Sticking it back to them whenever possible.

What diag sheet.....no idea what you talking about.

 

BTW, im in Illinois, FJT