So yesterday morning the words RESTRICTED PERFORMANCE flashed on the display and the yellow engine icon displayed. After driving for a minute or so, the RP words went off, but the engine icon stayed.

The Jag dealer hooked her up and she--elegantly, no doubt--spit out these codes. P1341 (Cam Shaft Position Sensor Fault) and P0171 (Lean on Bank 1).

Has anyone had these codes who can tell me what, ultimately, was the problem and how much to fix?

The tech said, "We don't know until we get in there" and mentioned that it would be a few thousand just to "get in there" to determine what's wrong. (I'm more than willing to go to an idie shop. The dealer's hourly is $140!)

Also, he said, "The engine bed plate was removed, but we don't know why." Does anyone know why this would have been done?

Thanks, gentlemen.

SirJag

 

SirJag:
You have what are apparently two different problems. If you are going to sort this one out, I believe you are going to need some good scanner software, not just a code reader. There are lots of options and opinions, but if I had Auto Enginuity connected to your car, I would be ewatching the cam position feedback, looking for intermittent jumps. I might also look at the feedback with a scope to see if the waveform had nice square edges. I would be looking for indication of whether the sensor was bad, or if the cam was moving to an enexpected posiotion while running. The feedback sensor is not too expensive, so changing it is a viable option.

As to the lean bank, I would look at the part and full load breathers and the entire intake plenum for cracks. I would clean the MAF. Look for a recent post about how to disassemble it for proper cleaning. Then I would have alook at the LTFT and STFT and try introducing propane to see if I could find the leak.

OR.... take the advice sometimes offered here and start changing parts. The battery, the temp sensors, the spark plugs, the MAF, the lambda sensors and on and on. Any of those COULD be the problem, but without diagnosis you will spaend a fortune to replace all the parts.

The bed plate was removed to work on or replace lower engine parts like rod bearings, main bearings, or pistons. It was probably fixed right if it is not making noises, but who knows.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

Hi SirJag
If I were you (and I know I am not you but) I would complain to the place where you bought your Jaguar. I ask for mucho dollars for all the missing parts (engine covers, engine compartment bottom cover, even the tire hold-down bolt, Jaguar manuals, key fob, and list keeps on growing) on this car and also the missing repair history, and the repair costs you are now incurring.
I know you are a good guy just by your postings here and our email exchanges.
I do not want you to feel bad. I know you love your Jaguar. Your seller should be made aware of the expenses you will have to pay for the labor and parts to make this car whole and complete.
Just trying to give some good advice.
Jim Lombardi

 

All Sparkenzap wrote is true but let's eat the elephant a bite at a time.

P0171 says lean right bank. The most common problem is a less than completely sealed connection from the air filter to the throttle body. The 'accordian' section of the air duct is subject to splits. Remove it and look at the under side for cracks in the area above the exhaust manifold.

Also check the part load breather orifice (search for that one). Clean the MAFS and throttle body (another search).

Clear the codes and see what happens.

If after that the P1341 cam shaft position sensor code is still showing it is most likely an electrical issue at steel and magnets seldom fail. Check the wiring at the back of and below the right valve cover for the sensor connections.

 

Thanks, Jim. Actually, the bed plate was removed, but put back on. The mechanic was simply telling me what he observed. But before I bought the car (and yeah, you're right, I love it), I had the dealer give me a 30-day on the engine and transmission, so I'll go talk to him tomorrow. I do have an extended warranty which covers most of all this, but I'd prefer to have the dealer handle it (using HIS 30-day warranty) so the work doesn't eat up the limited number of dollars that the extended warranty ultimately covers.

There are other things wrong with the car, but I'm too embarrassed to list them. Er, ok... I'll admit a few, for cathartic purposes alone:

- Fuel tank line broken and repaired with rubber line
- Mounts for cats missing and bolts broken off in engine bell housing (what are cats?)
- Both front tie rod boots torn
- Front lower control arm bushings torn
- After-market wiring to starter
- Full and part load breaters (?) are broken
- Cam covers are broken
- Coolant level sensor broken
- P1341 and P0171 sensor codes
-Cylinder heads have been removed (just observation)
- T-stat tower leaking

That's about it. Now I shall go start tying a noose. Hopefully others will learn from my experience.

I went against my own policy of not buying from a USED car dealer. All except once did I do that. I usually stick with new car dealers who happen to also sell used cars. I got into the habit of test driving... doing my own amateur checks.... and getting an extended warranty to handle any issues that might arise... and I was always fine. Never a problem.

But it seems that this paradigm doesn't work with USED car dealers whose stock is likely inferior to that which a NEW car dealer would bother with. Since the car drove well... and looked good... and, I admit, I was seduced by her lines and drooled over her leather and wood... I was rendered temporarily insane in the process.

So, my wife is saying, "GET RID OF IT!" and I am thinking, "Oh, how I love this thing... and since I spent $4,000 under dealer retail, I'm ok with putting some $ into it and even breaking even, so to speak."

Pipe dream?

OK...Jim... let the whipping begin. I deserve it.

SirJag

 

SirJag
I am sure no one here is going to criticize you. Jaguar had a bad repair record (electrical components) before Ford took over. I asked a lot of questions about this Jaguar model from friends (one of them worked at the local dealership). All said there were no major problems.
I should have done my own research on the internet and I would have found the wealth of knowledge that is on this forum. I would have still bought this car, but I would have had the major issues fixed within the warrantee period.
I am still happy with the car, but I am still frustrated by the Jaguar refusal to have a recall and reimbursement for the engineering defects that has caused these problems. Also I no longer respect or trust our local Jaguar dealer service.
I am glad that you have the 30 day and extended warrantees to help paid for wherever your Jag needs. You did well to join this forum.
Jim Lombardi

 

Sir Jag:
I would sur give some consideration to your wife'e advice, especially if you are not going to work on it yourself. I think you have a rotten apple that was worked on by a hack.

So, you do have a broken breathers. Thse are just plastic tubes used to pull vapor from the crankcase to the air intake. That is the source of the lean code. No big deal, parts are about $50.00

Although I would expect drivability to suffer, the cam code might very well indicate improper timing setup, given the cylinder heads show signs of r/r.

Cats are catalytic converters. The real broblem with broken bolts is they indicate lack of care by whoever removed them. The bolts probably did not break off by themselves unless the car was iin some off road use! The rest of the stuff is mostly the same. Indicative of serious problems the car encountered AND indication that who worked on it was e ither uncaring, or incompetent.

Don't sour on the brand or the model. Just try to be a big enough pan that the seller takes it back rather than fix everything, then get a better example of the model.

 

SirJag: We're all here with you. I got my 99xj8 5k below blue book. But everytime something comes up, I hear about it. Truth be told, I've still got a long way to go, before I reach blue book value. Hang onto her. And yes, who can refuse those seductive lines. Only my Grandson puts a bigger smile on my face. I'd love to have a second xj in the driveway. Of course, the wife would drive off in the f-150 never to return. But at least I could swap parts back and forth to keep one running. Baby steps, one problem at a time. If only I would've looked closer at my trunk harness a couple years ago, I could've saved a lot of headaches of late. Good luck.

 

Thanks so much to all of you for your replies... it's greatly appreciated.

The dealer was closed when I went today, so I'll try again tomorrow.

I had a thought I wanted to run past you gentlemen for your opinions..

My '01 VDP has 76k miles on it... and all the issues I mentioned.

This same dealer has a white '99 XJR that looks very clean and is there on consignment... not an auction car... has tags from my state. I actually drove it before buying my VDP and chose the VDP because it was $1,000 less and I thought drove better.

Anyway... I just saw that the dealer reduced the price of the XJR. It gets a 94 AutoCheck score, several points above the typical range. So, that's good.

I paid $7500 for my VDP. The dealer now wants $8000 (rather than $9000) for the XJR.

My thinking was I could go to the dealer... show him the Jag dealer's printout with all the issues... including the engine code issues (which his warranty would need to cover)... and tell him instead of him fixing (or attempting to) the engine code issues, that I'd give back my VDP and take the XJR for no additional money. (It would cost him more than the $500 difference to fix whatever issues those 2 codes suggest.)

And, of course, this time I would get the car checked out!

THE POSITIVES:

-- If the XJR is in good shape mechanically (the interior and exterior is superior to my VDP), then I avert having to deal with all the issues the dealer found, broken this and snapped off that.

-- The XJR has 1,000 fewer miles

THE NEGATIVES:

-- It's 2 years older than my VDP (meaningless, if it's in good mechanical shape, I know!)

-- The warranty company doesn't offer the same coverage as they do on the VDP. Older than 2000 cars qualify only for a 50-50 plan where they pay half of parts and labor.

-- I don't know if they cover the supercharger. I need to find out. Is this part problematic... and if so, very costly to repair?

What do you gentlemen think of this idea? It would seem to be an "easy way out" for the dealer... and put me in a (possibly) better car.

Or... do I hold onto the one I have and in a month or so begin fixing it using, knowing that I have a pretty extensive extended warranty (which includes wear and tear coverage) to back me up?

Argh. Dilemma!!

Your input is valuable to me. Thanks so much!

SirJag

 

Take the XJR! Do it!!

The car you have has, as others have pointed out, been abused, most likely in an unreported accident. A hack put it back together, poorly by the sound of it. This other car can't help but have a better history than the one you have, and man, its an xjR! That extra horsepower and tightened suspension are more than ample payment for the lack of backseat trays. This is a drivers car that goes as fast as a vett, at least an old one like these! I would check it out closely with the experience you have under your belt now, but...

DO IT!!!

 

Sir Jag:
I recommend the XJR. As to the extended warranty, I must say I have never used one. I bought one for my turbo Thunderbird, but never had a catastrophic failure and I preferred to repair the small stuff myself. BUT, plenty of folks report on here about problems getting claims settled. So, I am not sure of the warranties value.

From the sounds of it, your XJ8 had as bad of mechanical issues as you could possibly expect and still drive OK. So, my inclination is most any car would be better than it.

A question in case you keep either car- Are you interestted or inclined to get some tools and lear to work on the car yourself? Of you would not enjoy doing so, it probaly is not worht the time and effort, but it is a great way to beat the value equation on older Jags. Service hourly rates are particularly high, as are local parts prices (service businesses can;t wait for internet parts and are not inclined to use used parts). And, do you need the car or do you have na alternateive while you are servicing the Jag. I keep a few of them so I always have one to drive !
Good luck no matter what you decide and keep us posted.

 

SirJag
I would recommend that you contact your local Jaguar dealership Service and give them the vin number for both of these cars. Ask them to get you whatever service record history they can find on their Jaguar service network.

At least you know how much service was done on each of these cars (type of service ie repairs and maintenance, date performed, miles on car when serviced).

Also the tensioners issue - have they replaced with 3rd gen ones - both these cars have this repair issue. The ZF transmission repair issue that can occur on your 01 xj vdp - need to know if the valve body and front disk have been replaced.

All the XJR & XKR models have the stronger Merc transmission and that it does not seem to have these repair issues.

The extended warantee company will probably only honor repairs to your car after they occur 30 days from the sign date. You probably want to knew if either of these cars have a major repair issue before the 30 days of ownership.

You should have a Carfax report for both of these Jaguars (it will show the dates of each the registration of each new owner and dates of any accidents that have been reported).

When you talk to your used car dealer you should try to have him do a full inspection of the entire car with you here to view it (even if it means pulling the cam covers, brake inspection, front end, steering and boots/axles,etc).

I recommend this because of your current experience with this seller and your XJ VDP.

Hope this helps
Jim Lombardi

 

I would say it is pretty clear the XJ8 has not seen a dealer in many moons.
Not thet the dealer records are really as they are cracked up to be. it would be a rare 11 year old car that has seen only dealer maintenance. The fact is yhat Sir Jags's car has been worked on by a hack. There ar emany independents and, yes, even diy'ers who are not. Sure- you find a dealer service car and you have a gen, BUR these cars are 10+ years old for gosh sakes.

 

Thanks for the replies, gentlemen.

I went to the dealer today.

That XJR was sold.

Upon showing him the list of issues that the Jag dealer found, he said, "Eh... you take ANY car to the dealership and they'll find stuff wrong with it." Uh, yeah, if there are things wrong with it to find.

His reply about the rough idle was, "The other jag I have idles rough too." I said, "That's not how a properly running $70 to $80,000 car is supposed to idle."

In the end, he agreed to bring the car to his mechanic.

My question is, how do I know if he fixed the problems? Sure, I can tell if the idle is improved, remember that the Jag dealer got 2 codes: P1341 and P0171. I don't know which of the codes produce the yellow engine icon on the dash. Is there a way for the mechanic to actually turn off this indicator and not fix the issue that caused it to light up?

Also, do any of you know which of those codes caused the words RESTRICTED PERFORMANCE on the dash to light up?

I'll keep everyone posted

Thank you!

SirJag

 

It looks like from the information on the DTC summaries that both of these fault codes P0171 and P1341 turned on the Check Engine light.
The Jaguar EOBD (Extended OBD) DTC sheet shows for P0171

In the Default action is "When CK ENG MIL is activated(DTC flagged; second trip), ECM:–Inhibits downstream HO2S control If DTC P0174 is also flagged, ECM:–Limits engine speed to 3000 rpm

P1341 does not have any Default action listed.
Here is a PDF file that has the DTC sheets for P0171 and P1341:
P0171 and P1341.pdf

Maybe we can get one of the forum's experts to tell us how to interpret these Summeries.
Jim Lombardi

 

The codes will remain in memory until the required number of 'drive cycles' are completed. Drive cycles are not well documented for these cars but this link will give you an idea of what that entails: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/g...asy-way-50358/

Until then, if you plug in an OBDII reader a yellow, rather than green light will show.

I would get as much fixed under the used car dealer and other warranty as you could as quickly as possible.

The asking prices you mention for these cars if really at the low end from an used car dealer, and especially for an XJR in CA. I would go further into evaluating other damage from wreaks. While these cars seem like bargains compared to their original purchase price they are often rebuilt from 'totaled' wreaks. You might want to check to see if you have a 'salvage' title.

Don't mean to poo-poo your purchase but it is better to know what you have.

 

As I said earlier, code 171 is likely just the result of the known breather tube cracks. the cam position is potentially a very big deal.

 

Thanks very much for the information. The car had a high AutoCheck score... above the average range for the model... and no negatives reported. It's a small dealer with little overhead.

Tomorrow I bring it in for service. I just wonder how I will ever know if they did ANYTHING. Can I trust that if the engine is running smoothly... and if the Restricted Performance light is off that he fixed the problem. My fear is that he'd fix, say, the breather issue, but not the "deeper" cam position error. How would I know? (Unless both problems are contributing to the rough idle.)

Thank you,
SirJag

 

Thanks Sparkenzap. Bet you're right about this. I'll keep everyone posted.

SirJag

 

Well, if it runs smooth and give no code, then what problem do you have? If yo are referring to a concern about future problems, I would say that is ALWAYS a concern and is not related to the current "issues". (Nice word for screw ups )