Greetings,

Well, she has been quite good to me in the past year (since purchase), and little issues here and there were fixed easily and at quite low cost. But yesterday Sunday, she simply decided she would not start! Bummer. No obvious reason, as she was working perfectly fine when parked the night before.

Symptoms: Engine turns, just won't start. There's a somewhat strange high pitch noise when turning though - but that may just be me never really hearing the engine turn like that without actually starting.

First test: The immediate thought was fuel pump. But we did a test via that little "valve" at the top of bank A's fuel injector line and fuel came out shooting few feet in the air! Guess we have fuel pressure. Also looked around a few fuses and relays. All look fine. Switched a few relays around and didn't change.

About the car condition before symptom (just never know if any clue in these remarks):

- Driver's door doesn't lock and central locking button on dash doesn't operate. All other doors work fine via remote or key in door. I had read somewhere that this 'may' cause a reason for engine not to start, but have been driving like this for sometime.

- Recently replaced Bank B knock sensor. It fixed my "restricted performance" problem and have been happily revving again since. This was 2 weeks ago. Doubt very much any connection here, but thought I would share.

- My windsheild washer fuid pump died during the winter (did not do any test to confirm if the pump or electrical problem), and more recently my "reverse" sensors no longer respond to an obstacle in the way when backing up. Electrical troubles one by one?

- End January, I unclogged my heater core which gave me heat. Good stuff. But by the same occasion I "flooded" one spark / coil compartiment with water which caused a short and had engine to run on 7 cyl. This was first cyl on bank B, the closest to the firewall. That was easly fixed by drying out and cleaning the rubber part of the coil (gook from oil and water). Has been running great since.

OKAY - so, what are the thoughts here to proceed next? Thinking no spark getting to the cylinders - somehow.

Thanks for your suggestions

 

Your no-start may be caused by cylinder wash. If you do a search here you will find lots of information including some very recent posts.

A few questions:
- how many miles on your car?
-was it only driven a short trip the night before it would not start?
-does it souund as if the engine is cranking much faster and without compression compared to normal?

 

+1 on the cylinder wash as a first thought.

 

Thanks guys. rocklandjag, she has 109k miles, was a short trip the day before and my Dad's (who hapened to come over for dinner last night) reaction when he heard the engine turning was a "loss of compression" thought - if that helps to answer the question. I can't really tell - to be honest - if it's cranking faster. Now I need to look into cylinder wash. Not too sure what this is all about, but you don't seem to be ringing the alarm bell ;-)

More soon

 

Cylinder wash is a relatively simple thing to resolve- and probably the issue.

Let us know as you progress!

 

Brian - no need for alarm bells. Basically, you remove the spark plugs and add a tiny bit of oil into the cylinders to restore compression. Lots of advice and details available here on the forum

Keep us posted

 

Live from head under the good. Compression meter shows zilch on 3 randomly selected cylinders (both banks). Added some oil - best we got is 30psi.... Ideas?

 

OK I meant under the "hood" earlier. Not easy to type on phone with greasy hands ;-) So, puzzled by no compression, my Dad and I called a mechanic friend in CA (he used to work on our Alfa Romeo's) and he immediately said "timing chain related problem". We decided to remove the camshaft covers. Chains look okay. All turned fine when cranking engine. The secondary chain on Bank A was a bit loose. Called mechanic back and he said "that's your problem". But then we couldn't explain why no compression on Bank B either. A question we couldn't answer though was that the secondary chain tensioner would push outwards (as if pushing out of the engine) on Bank B and inwards (pushing towards engine) on Bank A. We figured that's why the secondary chain appeared loose on Bank A as the tensioner was pushing the other side of the chain. Guess it's all good but can't explain why these opposites. So we're out of ideas, short of taking to a garage... still can't explain why all working fine night before, and (apparently) zero compression next morning. We would assume that bent valves would make a specific noise, which we don't seem to have. More thoughts anyone before announcing to the wife (who never wanted me to buy one of these) that I'm in for an 'expense' ?

Cheers

 

The high pitched noise you heard that sounded different is probably the sound of the engine with no compression, I have been testing my engine during a rebuild, so am familiar with that sound.
Don't give up on the cylinder wash problem, remove all the plugs add no more than a teaspoon of oil in each cylinder. Add the oil then run you compression test, turn it over 4 or 5 times each cylinder. move to next cylinder repeat.
The chances of a skipped chain without a whole lot of bad noises is low, especially as it was running the night before. It does not seem catastrophic based on your explanation.

 

Before you button up the valve covers have a very careful look at the tensioners. If they are the plastic ones, you may want to delay buttoning it up to replace them. Even if they are the metal ones, have a look for damage.

Yes the tensioners differ from side to side.

Have a look at some of the tensioner threads to find pictures.

The amount of oil that should be used for bore wash problems is about a tablespoon. And it should be engine oil, not some thin household oil like 3-in-1.

 

Thanks guys - yes tensioners are plastic. Still having a tough time understanding compression night before, no more next morning. And all cylinders ? Really? Okay tested only 3 randomly but it's so strange. I'm no mechanic no expert but basic logic is escaping me. Maybe I should not try so hard for a Jag ;-). Still love her, but love her more running ! Will keep you posted.

 

Don't forget to prop the throttle open when compression testing.

 

Ah ! Didn't throttle open when compression testing!

 

That would explain it, if you didn't have any crashing and banging when testing the valves are likely ok.
Pour in the oil and crank it up.

 

+1^. Based on what you have posted it sounds like cylinder wash. Carefully add the oil and try starting. Based on other posts be prepared for a huge amount of smoke at start-up and allow the car to fully warm up

 

Just got back into this forum, and saw this (old) thread. Had a similar problem, looking/sounding just like your initial reports, and it turned out to be a broken starter (it simply didn't engage with the flywheel, so it basically spun freely, explaining the whining noise).
For what it's worth.
One more piece of advice: do tell your wife... This repair may be palatable, there will be bigger shocks agead in the future (e.g. the tensioner upgrade). I speak from experience

 

Thanks all! I tested one cylinder with oil and while cranking with full throttle i got a 60psi reading. Did same with a cylinder without oil and read zero. So oil in all cylinders it was. Got everything back together and started with gas pedal to the floor. It finally started to give sign of pickup. Didn't get it to start though. At one point it was just about to pick up then stopped. When tried again, I got back to the same noise / started as a started with - no pickup what so ever. Might have flooded now? Anyway, had to stop for the day and will possibly crank again tomorrow. At what point to I decide to try the oil in the cylinders again? Will it even be needed?

Cheers to all

 

Blue...how long were you cranking for?
In this situation placing gas pedal to floor tells the ECM to cut the juice.

Start back from beginning....take out all plugs, clean them and check gaps.
Pour a tablespoon of ENGINE oil in six of the cyclinders and replace plugs.
Turn on ignition....DO NOT touch the gas pedal and wind over for at least 15 seconds each burst....you may have to do this two or three times but no longer as you run the risk of damage to starter.
It should fire....and when it does don't mash the gas pedal just increase slowly to around 1500rpm and hold it there until smoke clears and it begins to show some temp.

BIGGEST mistake when starting these cars from cold is 'jiggling' the gas pedal....leave it alone and let it start in it's own fashion and allow it to settle from fast idle (around 1100rpm) down to normal (850rpm) which takes around 2-3 minutes depending on ambient temps.
When you do get it running, take it for a lengthy run of at least 50 miles to clear things out and to burn of any moisture in oil.

Best thing to lengthen the life of the tensioners is to use good quality oil and a PTFE additive.
Because of the cam phasing in this design, there is a lot of stress placed on the cam chain secondary tensioners which basically caused the cracking problems with the first to plastic designs of tensioner.
With the introduction of the metal tensioners, problems were eradicated.

 

PTFE, aka Teflon is generally held in very low regard in the US market. Dupont, the trade mark holder of the name Teflon has issued warnings that PTFE is not suitable as an additive for engine oil. It is one of the finest examples of snake oil in recent automotive history.

An effective way to start a possibly flooded engine of the type in this thread is to hold the gas pedal to the floor while cranking the engine then slowly release the gas pedal while continuing to crank.

The starting position of the gas pedal cuts fuel to clear any possible accumulation of fuel, and releasing the gas pedal starts refueling again so that during the cranking process the fuel condition crosses the boundary where it has the right mixture of air/fuel to start.

With a flooded engine, starting to crank with the gas pedal in the normal position makes it harder for the excess fuel to be cleared because the injectors continue to pour more fuel into the cylinders.

 

Cylinder wash issue was beat to death in many threads on this (and other forums). I think everyone knows by now how to deal with it. But starting the car, with the oil in the bores, seems to need a little more explanation for some members.

First of all,.....if the car doesn't have compression "overnight",....it's almost 100% the wash issue (maybe someone moved it few feet the night before?). Engine CAN NOT stop having compression "on it's own" (of course if we eliminate the bend valves, and such, but engines make a VERY obvious noise once the pistons come in the contact with the valves, that can not be ignored).

So how do we start the engine, once the bores are filled with the right amount of oil?

Pedal to the floor (you don't want ANY fuel in the cylinders at this point, and the floored pedal will cut the supply!). Crank in short bursts (this distributes the oil over the cylinder walls), short bursts in order not to overheat and stress the starter. Five-six bursts is all it's needed.

Release the pedal, keep the ignition on (to presurize the fuel rail properly), and with the foot OFF the gas, crank in the short bursts (4-5 seconds each). She WILL start.

If you fail to do this exactly right, you will either not distribute the oil properly, or flood the engine, causing another "wash", and you will have to repeat the removing of the plugs, oil and all.

The best thing?........Keep in mind that this can happen at any time the car is started, and moved over the short distance. If I have to move mine from the garage for any reason (but not leaving the house), I simply leave it idling in the driveway. I do what I need to do (in the garage), and I take her for a short drive to the store or such (6-7 miles RT), and she is nice and warm by the time we come back. On the way I call my wife at work, and ask her if she needs anything from the store (for dinner or else), and to this day she thinks I am the ideal, and caring husband, saving her the trip to the store! Brownie points to the "T"!!