Haven't been around much lately (traveling), came back, took the cat for a spin (fresh fuel, and a carwash), drove about 35 miles, stopped for a drink, and the cat refused to go!

She barely started (running on few cylinders), would not idle, and was able to start only with the gas half way down (running like crap!). So I brought her home on the flatbed!

Plugged the scanner, and she is throwing P301 (cylinder 1 misfire), but no "restricted performance" message or anything else. So,......my thinking (from best case scenario to worst).

1. Shorted coil needs to be replaced (did see some oil in the wells last time I replaced the plugs, but I was too busy to go at it!), and BTW, which one is #1 cyl!?

2. Need new valve cover gaskets (I Do need to change those!) + one coil

3. Tensioner "explosion" (tensioners were replaced, but I haven't verified visually, except reading the work order/receipt!)

4. My engine is TOAST - need replaced

So what do you guys think? I can pull the coil (if I would know which one is #1), but how to test it? If it failed, I'd replace it, and stop there (change gaskets while I'm at it). If it's the tensioner, I can replace it, but before I tear off the valve covers, I'd like to entertain the less labor intensive tasks first (they will come off anyway for the new gaskets).

The big question is........(drum roll)......would she throw P301 if the tensioner failed, or would there be more codes??

IF the tensioner failed, and IF the pistons impacted the valves......how can you tell BEFORE you replace the tensioners, adjust the timing, and checking compression?

Obviously, I'd like to do some diagnostics first, before getting the new engine! And IF I do need one, I'd like to avoid changing everything on this one, only to find that I need another one! Sounds reasonable?

So if you had the tensioner failure and/or P301 code, I'd like to hear from you. Planning to tear into her heart early tomorrow.

Thanks in advance.

 

Update!

Erased the codes, did the "hard reset", and she tried to start. With the pedal half down, she will keep running, but definitely not on all cylinders. No strange banging from the valve cover (hopefully tensioners are OK!), and she dies as soon as I let go of the gas.

Funny thing,....P0301 went away, and now she says P1336 (camshaft/crankshaft sensor), but which one!? She has both, and highly unlikely that both failed. Batt has 12.8V across terminals, and the same on the bulkhead, but the message center now says "electrical failure"! What in the world is going on? Now I'm more confused than with just P0301!

 

Miss on #1.. replace valve cover gaskets and coils. Clean and probably solve miss on #1. Main problem sounds like issue with where engine is and where computer thinks it is. On simpler engines I would bet timing chain jumped teeth on gears but on this cat look at sensors and electrical connections first. Start with simple and less expensive first. Good luck

 

get the cam covers off. Sounds like a classic tensioner failure.

If it failed on startup, (9 times out of 10) it's jumped a tooth - DO NOT START IT AGAIN - until you've visually checked tensioner condition. The sensor is reporting the cam is out of phase, and this is joined usually by multiple misfires obviously because it's out of phase.

Hand turning the engine clockwise on the crank pulley nut with a compression tester will tell you if the valves are bent - you might be lucky and it's only 1 tooth skipped, 2 and it's game over I'm afraid - see this is why starting the car at this point is like playing Russian Roulette. Good Luck Dan

 

I am going to go just a short way out on a limb here... Did you "carwash" include pressure washing the engine compartment?

 

Good thinking, but no. Car was dusty, and I took her through one of those "no touch" things. But I drove it for over 30 miles after (and pretty fast).

 

Thanks Sean. That was my immediate assesment of the situation. The only thing that confused me (and bare in mind that I never saw tensioner failure first hand), was P0301 at first. I would expect 301,302,303,304 (complete bank failure). And after that, some sort of "hope" kicked in (that it might be something simple like a sensor).

So you are telling me that if I pull the covers, inspect the tensioners, I CAN check the compression BEFORE I go and buy new tensioners, and time her?

Thanks for your help.

 

I have "good news - bad news" situation!

Tensioners are fine (2nd gen), but the secondary chain on the left bank broke!!!

So,.....the previous owner DID have the tensioners done, but they used the old (stretched) chains!

Now back to the compression test (to see if I lost the engine)!

 

It doesn't sound good if it was running with a broken chain. Just sayin'. f you do have bent valves, you might be able to re-do the top end for less than an engine replacement.

 

I think you are right. I didn't have a chance to test the compression yet, but the left bank cams (pass side USA), were WAY out of time,.....meaning valves are gone. Poor Garfield looks/feels like new, and I hate to junk it. Maybe I'll go for the top end rebuild, we'll see.

 

Yup, valves are toast! Waiting on the word from my mechanic on the cost of the top end rebuild (wholesale prices). I think all the parts (Ford) can be had for 6-7 bills + his labor. About 15-16 hundred total. If it's more, I will do something else. The mechanic team will get to me tomorow on the bottom line.
I didn't need this right now, but such is life. I am going to crack a bottle of single malt, light up a Monte Cristo, and think about positive things in life.

Thanks to all that responded, and I'll keep the forum updated on the progress.

 

Really sorry to hear about the damage - so, it started on 4 cylinders, with one cam bank to rotating at all? Also where did the broken chain go to? Down in the sump area? Allan

 

No, the chain was still on the top, kinda bunched up under the sprocket. Only the exhaust cam was inop, the intake was still running with the primary chain. So the exhaust valves are damaged. They will take the cat to the clinic tomorrow, and pull the head. If the pistons are OK, I'll go and rebuild the top. If she has piston damage,.......well, she will need another engine. At that point, I am thinking about yanking the AJ27 out of my wife's 03 (my car is in PRISTINE condition inside and out, and her Tabby not so much), and stick it in. AJ27 has 110K, but it's running like a champ. Junk the AJ26, and part the rest of the 03 car. Not crazy about the idea of parting it out though (too much work).

 

Has anyone got a spare head they can donate to Dan's car? this is way easier and cheaper to get it back running and a fast job...

 

Sean,.....I don't know what to say! This is so kind of you. I never thought about this! My mechanic tells me that BOTH heads need to be taken off, resurfaced, valves, seats, shims, replaced, both head gaskets,.....the works. Would it be OK to do just the left bank (the one that lost the secondary)? If so,.....I don't expect anyone to "donate". IF someone has a good head from AJ26 (with all guts in it), I'd pay a fair market price for it.

Pls let me know guys if someone wants to part with AJ26 head. Thanks a lot.

 

Maybe a better answer would be to visit one of the breakers you usually go to for softer parts and see what newer motor and tranny you might find. a 4.2 from an S-type or an 05 LR3 might drop right in and provide some upgrades (pumps, double chains, 6 spd transmission) that would keep her running like new.

There are folks that hang on the argument that engine and VN should be original matches, but they are rebuilding valuable classics: I am reminded that you reminded us, once, that these were just cars!

 

UPDATE!!

I think the saga is over, thanks to dsnyder! He offered me a working motor, and I was ready to pick it up on Monday. But let me back up a little.

My mechanics showed up, looked at the engine with exhaust cam removed on the left bank, and concluded that they have to pull the engine, resurface BOTH heads, relap the valves,....the works. The verdict? $3000.-!!!

That's not an option,...not at all. They refused to do just the one side, claiming that there will be problems at a later date, and they can't guarantee anything. Since dnyder offered the motor, I asked how much they want to swap the motors. $1000.- (not bad,considering the alternative)

So I called dsnyder, and we were discussing the pick up of the motor on monday, when he asked if I checked the compression on the left bank! I didn't. (my mechanics told me that this would be a waste of time, and they NEVER saw the engine with this failure with intact valves)

I have a compression gauge that I haven't seen since 1989!! (bought it at that time for my bike) Since 1989, I moved from Germany to Australia, to Japan, to Washington D.C., to Minnesota, to Arizona, and to CA! Needless to say,.....my stuff (that I don't use on a daily/even yearly basis), is all in the boxes in the BIG barn.

By some wild chance, I found the gauge (was almost ready to go and buy another one), it bolts right into the Cat (no adapter needed!), and I have 120PSI on all cylinders!!! No bent valves!

Looks like I will dodge the bullet on this one. All is needed to get the Cat on the road again, is two tensioners, bolts, secondary chain, and valve cover gaskets!

Now I have to source these parts, and get to work. I owe dsnyder a dinner, or a bottle of single malt (or whatever his prefered poison is!), or whatever. Totaly in debt to him.

What a wonderfull forum! With wonderfull people eager to help, and the knowledge and experience hundred times greater than the best trained mechanics.

Thank you all for being here.

 

Single malt scotch AND a cigar.

happy to help!