I bought a JAG!!! 2001 XJR - I'm worried about a few things, would appreciate advice
#1
07-08-2013, 08:49 PM
I bought a JAG!!! 2001 XJR - I'm worried about a few things, would appreciate advice
Hello all,
Living the dream... bought a 2001 XJR with 72k miles on it. Amazing how such a big heavy car can handle! A few concerns I have:
- Tensioners, car built in Jan. 2001. Have them replaced, now? Wait a bit / until I get a rattle? Indy (ex. Jag dealership employee) quoting $2,500 to do the work, charging $60/hr. Reasonable? Seems high to me...
- Transmission: It is VERY reluctant to kickdown. Flooring the throttle seems to just drop 1 gear, sport mode or not. With so much power on tap, it still moves nicely, but when darting out into a quicker lane in traffic, I'd hope for more responsiveness, without resorting to the J-gate. It shifts very smoothly, but there is the occasional rough 2 to 1 downshift when slowing to a stop (not all the time, maybe once every 20 stops or so). Transmission oil was never changed. Mechanic says it can be drained "a little" and topped up with a syringe, with $60/liter transmission oil. We can't get a proper change done? Any thoughts on what is at issue here? Need for new fluid, electronics at fault? No warnings or codes on the dash...
- Power seat won't adjust in all the directions - no loose wires under the seat - thoughts?
- A slight ticking / clacking sound can be heard when engine is cold - dissipates quickly enough - possible valve clatter?
- Terrible tramlining: with 255 wide tires, is it normal to be fighting with the wheel to keep the car straight? It seems to "take stances", i.e. find a groove and pull consistently to one side for a while, until another bump/groove has it pulling towards the other side - it doesn't seem particularly missaligned, although there is a slight rattle in front suspension (feels like a loose tie rod).
I've always loved the look of these cars and the smooth power delivery is addictive. I got a fair deal on the car under ($8k) and am ok with spending a little to get it in tip top shape, but am a little nervous about all that can go wrong, the more I read about these beasts! Looking fwd to hearing from you all.
Thanks! Kind regards,
Rick
'01 XJR
'04 SAAB 9-5 Aero
'61 MGA
Living the dream... bought a 2001 XJR with 72k miles on it. Amazing how such a big heavy car can handle! A few concerns I have:
- Tensioners, car built in Jan. 2001. Have them replaced, now? Wait a bit / until I get a rattle? Indy (ex. Jag dealership employee) quoting $2,500 to do the work, charging $60/hr. Reasonable? Seems high to me...
- Transmission: It is VERY reluctant to kickdown. Flooring the throttle seems to just drop 1 gear, sport mode or not. With so much power on tap, it still moves nicely, but when darting out into a quicker lane in traffic, I'd hope for more responsiveness, without resorting to the J-gate. It shifts very smoothly, but there is the occasional rough 2 to 1 downshift when slowing to a stop (not all the time, maybe once every 20 stops or so). Transmission oil was never changed. Mechanic says it can be drained "a little" and topped up with a syringe, with $60/liter transmission oil. We can't get a proper change done? Any thoughts on what is at issue here? Need for new fluid, electronics at fault? No warnings or codes on the dash...
- Power seat won't adjust in all the directions - no loose wires under the seat - thoughts?
- A slight ticking / clacking sound can be heard when engine is cold - dissipates quickly enough - possible valve clatter?
- Terrible tramlining: with 255 wide tires, is it normal to be fighting with the wheel to keep the car straight? It seems to "take stances", i.e. find a groove and pull consistently to one side for a while, until another bump/groove has it pulling towards the other side - it doesn't seem particularly missaligned, although there is a slight rattle in front suspension (feels like a loose tie rod).
I've always loved the look of these cars and the smooth power delivery is addictive. I got a fair deal on the car under ($8k) and am ok with spending a little to get it in tip top shape, but am a little nervous about all that can go wrong, the more I read about these beasts! Looking fwd to hearing from you all.
Thanks! Kind regards,
Rick
'01 XJR
'04 SAAB 9-5 Aero
'61 MGA
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runnerpaul (07-09-2013)
#2
07-08-2013, 09:43 PM
Veteran Member
In my anything but humble opinion, you need to worry about one thing. - Actually you defined it as two things. Tensioners and ticking and clacking. No one can say whether or not your tensioners are about to go, but if they do, it is catastrophic.
If you are going to enjoy this car, maybe it its time to do some maintenance yourself! You can change the secondary tensioners for less than $300. even if you have to buy all of the tools. use the zip tie method. It ain't the best way to do it, but it is better than waiting.
If you are going to enjoy this car, maybe it its time to do some maintenance yourself! You can change the secondary tensioners for less than $300. even if you have to buy all of the tools. use the zip tie method. It ain't the best way to do it, but it is better than waiting.
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runnerpaul (07-09-2013)
#3
07-09-2013, 06:14 AM
Veteran Member
Welcome to the wonderful world of Jaguar . . . and to the forum!
Sparkenzap is right, verify that the tensioners have been replaced or replace them . . . NOW! The secondaries are the ones to be concerned about and any indy shop should quote about $800 max. You can easily do it for less than $200 including gaskets. The MG in your signature indicates that you know how to work on cars.
Call back when that is done and we will share some thoughts on the other issues.
Here is a head start:
Cam Chain Tensioners - Removing Valve Covers Only
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/j...17/#post316489
Cam Chain Tensioner Tools
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/g...20/#post471746
Cam Chain Tensioners
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=36466
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=4747
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=22555
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=23870
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/a...eplacement-pdf
Cam Chain Tensioners Lincoln LS Part Numbers
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/j...34/#post330655
JTIS .pdf files on Chains/Tensioners replacement
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/j...prokets-54603/
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...xtracts-66696/
Cam locking tool dimensions
http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap...?id=1242243983
Cam Chain Tensioners Cam Removal Method https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...59&postcount=1
Broken Cam Due to Removing Cam
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=49784
Sparkenzap is right, verify that the tensioners have been replaced or replace them . . . NOW! The secondaries are the ones to be concerned about and any indy shop should quote about $800 max. You can easily do it for less than $200 including gaskets. The MG in your signature indicates that you know how to work on cars.
Call back when that is done and we will share some thoughts on the other issues.
Here is a head start:
Cam Chain Tensioners - Removing Valve Covers Only
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/j...17/#post316489
Cam Chain Tensioner Tools
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/g...20/#post471746
Cam Chain Tensioners
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=36466
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=4747
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=22555
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=23870
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/a...eplacement-pdf
Cam Chain Tensioners Lincoln LS Part Numbers
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/j...34/#post330655
JTIS .pdf files on Chains/Tensioners replacement
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/j...prokets-54603/
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...xtracts-66696/
Cam locking tool dimensions
http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap...?id=1242243983
Cam Chain Tensioners Cam Removal Method https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...59&postcount=1
Broken Cam Due to Removing Cam
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=49784
Last edited by test point; 07-09-2013 at 06:23 AM.
The following users liked this post:
runnerpaul (07-09-2013)
#4
07-09-2013, 09:23 AM
Welcome!
Hi Rick,
1st of all welcome to Jaguar ownership and to this awesome forum!
Thank you to Sparkenzap and Test point for your replies.
I agree about the secondary tensioners get these checked and if they are not the 3rd generation (all metal) then get them replaced ASAP.
I changed mine a few weeks ago check this link:
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...ed-time-97968/
I used the zip tie method which was very easy to do. As can be seen in the pictures in the link above, I caught them just in time! I did not have any rattle at cold start, so I quite surprised how bad the left hand tensioner was.
If a tensioner goes down and the timing chain jumps one tooth you get rough idling and running, if it jumps two teeth the valves hit the cylinders. Major expense!!
I do not know much about the transmission except that the XJR has a more robust one than what's in the XJ8, so apart from shifting problem you should be okay. There is a thread that talks about the transmission fluid and from what I remember the cost was a lot less that what you mentioned.
May you have many happy miles in your new XJR, I love my XJ8 and now I am on the hook to get one for the wife, as I let her drive it and she fell in love with it too!
1st of all welcome to Jaguar ownership and to this awesome forum!
Thank you to Sparkenzap and Test point for your replies.
I agree about the secondary tensioners get these checked and if they are not the 3rd generation (all metal) then get them replaced ASAP.
I changed mine a few weeks ago check this link:
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...ed-time-97968/
I used the zip tie method which was very easy to do. As can be seen in the pictures in the link above, I caught them just in time! I did not have any rattle at cold start, so I quite surprised how bad the left hand tensioner was.
If a tensioner goes down and the timing chain jumps one tooth you get rough idling and running, if it jumps two teeth the valves hit the cylinders. Major expense!!
I do not know much about the transmission except that the XJR has a more robust one than what's in the XJ8, so apart from shifting problem you should be okay. There is a thread that talks about the transmission fluid and from what I remember the cost was a lot less that what you mentioned.
May you have many happy miles in your new XJR, I love my XJ8 and now I am on the hook to get one for the wife, as I let her drive it and she fell in love with it too!
#5
07-09-2013, 09:31 AM
Living the dream... bought a 2001 XJR with 72k miles on it. Amazing how such a big heavy car can handle! A few concerns I have:
- Tensioners, car built in Jan. 2001. Have them replaced, now? Wait a bit / until I get a rattle? Indy (ex. Jag dealership employee) quoting $2,500 to do the work, charging $60/hr. Reasonable? Seems high to me...
- Transmission: It is VERY reluctant to kickdown. Flooring the throttle seems to just drop 1 gear, sport mode or not. With so much power on tap, it still moves nicely, but when darting out into a quicker lane in traffic, I'd hope for more responsiveness, without resorting to the J-gate. It shifts very smoothly, but there is the occasional rough 2 to 1 downshift when slowing to a stop (not all the time, maybe once every 20 stops or so). Transmission oil was never changed. Mechanic says it can be drained "a little" and topped up with a syringe, with $60/liter transmission oil. We can't get a proper change done? Any thoughts on what is at issue here? Need for new fluid, electronics at fault? No warnings or codes on the dash...
- Power seat won't adjust in all the directions - no loose wires under the seat - thoughts?
- Power seat won't adjust in all the directions - no loose wires under the seat - thoughts?
- A slight ticking / clacking sound can be heard when engine is cold - dissipates quickly enough - possible valve clatter?
- Terrible tramlining: with 255 wide tires, is it normal to be fighting with the wheel to keep the car straight? It seems to "take stances", i.e. find a groove and pull consistently to one side for a while, until another bump/groove has it pulling towards the other side - it doesn't seem particularly missaligned, although there is a slight rattle in front suspension (feels like a loose tie rod).
- Terrible tramlining: with 255 wide tires, is it normal to be fighting with the wheel to keep the car straight? It seems to "take stances", i.e. find a groove and pull consistently to one side for a while, until another bump/groove has it pulling towards the other side - it doesn't seem particularly missaligned, although there is a slight rattle in front suspension (feels like a loose tie rod).
I've always loved the look of these cars and the smooth power delivery is addictive. I got a fair deal on the car under ($8k) and am ok with spending a little to get it in tip top shape, but am a little nervous about all that can go wrong, the more I read about these beasts! Looking fwd to hearing from you all.
Thanks! Kind regards,
Rick
'01 XJR
'04 SAAB 9-5 Aero
'61 MGA
'61 MGA
Here goes…
Tensioners - Take off the cam covers and check to see if the secondary tensioners are orange. If they are then replace. If they're metal they have already likley been done. Fact is the car is 12 years old so I would budget to have this done in the near future if it was my car.
Transmission (bit of a can of worms here) - My car is slow to engage on kickdown as well. The throttle response has never been fantastic and the gearbox takes time between kickdown being commanded and the transmission to come back on drive. Perhaps half a second. I think this is normal and I've adapted my driving style to compensate. Your transmission response sounds a little longer than that.
You can try a transmission reset and the gearbox will "re-learn" the shifting points. I did this by disconnecting the wires that were on the negative terminal of the battery, touching them to the positive side of the battery for a few seconds and leaving it for 24 hours. Make sure you have the radio code before doing this. There is also a video on YouTube about how to reset the 722.6 gearbox without fiddling with the battery as well. Haven't tried it this way but I see no reason why it wouldn't work.
Regarding the transmission oil, make sure your mechanic does this properly. The gearboxes were sealed for life when new, however this is now considered to be an essential maintenance item by Mercedes (they’re Merc gearboxes in the XJR known as a 722.6). Not going to get into a debate about this as there are loads of threads/arguments going into detail, but since selling this box to Jag, Mercedes have said the fluid should be changed every 50k miles. Some still believe the transmission should be left well alone as failures have happened after trying a fluid change or flush. Personally with your mileage I would think you'll be fine. I've just done this myself but have all the equipment to do it correctly and it took me all day to be completely satisfied I had the level correct after the refill.
The shop who does this for you will need a special dipstick to check the transmission oil level, the ability to somehow measure the transmission temperature, the correct fluid for the transmission, a replacement transmission filter and possibly a new pan gasket and sump washer. Your car doesn't have the ability to drain the fluid from the torque converter (hence the partial refill) so only the pan contents can be drained (about 4 quarts I think) unless you do a full on transmission flush. Flushing the transmission after 12 years can move all the debris and cr8p around that was quite happy sitting in the bottom of the oil pan and other places. This is why some people claim to have suffered problems after trying this. I’m lucky in that my 98 car has a torque convertor drain plug. Your car won’t so if you’re going to change this fluid I suggest you change the oil in the pan and the filter, run it a few hundred miles, drain the pan and refill again for a couple of cycles. Not ideal but that way the fluid will be in a better condition and less mixed in with the old.
I suggest you look for the instructions to replace this (they're all over the forum), print off a copy and ask your mechanic to follow them to the letter (if they're a jag specialist though they'll know this already). The AFT fluid being correct is key here. I can't stress this enough. Use the correct approved fluid type. I used Shell AFT4134 available in the UK. I think in the Canada you'll likely have a better choice, but the fluid needs to be suitable for the Mercedes 722.6 transmission. I believe the Shell stuff is the best value where I am. I got a 20 litre barrel for the equivilent of $200, but Fuchs does an approved fluid also far far less the the dealership. The dealership stuff is a huge rip-off. Provided the fluid meets MB236.10 spec your good to go. You can also use MB236.12 and MB236.14, but I personally went with the old spec as it was working perfectly and the newer oils are slightly thinner.
Power seat - Can't really help here besides the obvious fuses/wiring etc.
A slight ticking from the engine - Could be loads of things. Possibly the VVT system or valve chatter as you've mentioned. I have the same thing and it's gone before I can diagnose it. Never caused me any issues. Try taking off the auxiliary belt and starting the engine from cold. That will isolate the noise to the engine and not other systems if it's still there with the belt removed.
Tramlining - These cars suffer from this. When I got mine it was awful. I thought it was a tracking issue and went and got the wheels laser aligned. Turns out one of my rear wheels was attached to a cracked carrier hub. The crack was where the pivot bolt resides and was dangerous if not a death trap. I changed this immediately. But it's worth checking the suspension and getting an alignment. Also play with the tyre pressures. Changing these can help. Some tyres are better than others at fighting tramlining on this car. My advice is get it aligned, add a few PSI to the tyres and see if this improves things.
Last edited by Bondy; 07-09-2013 at 09:46 AM.
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Jhartz (07-09-2013)
#6
07-09-2013, 11:10 AM
Veteran Member
welcome to the club
this is the correct ATF and the cheapest I found so far, purchased a few time from this seller so you can trust
Mercedes Benz Transmission Fluid 001 989 03 13 Synthetic 722 6 722 9 | eBay
this is the correct ATF and the cheapest I found so far, purchased a few time from this seller so you can trust
Mercedes Benz Transmission Fluid 001 989 03 13 Synthetic 722 6 722 9 | eBay
#7
07-13-2013, 10:19 PM
Welcome to the club. I have same vehicle and it has been great.
You can easily do the tensioners on your own. Rent the tools and it is an easy job for a few hundred dollars.
Others can chime in. I thought the switch from zf to mercedes tranny happened in mid 2001.
Overall, it is actually an easy car to work on.
You can easily do the tensioners on your own. Rent the tools and it is an easy job for a few hundred dollars.
Others can chime in. I thought the switch from zf to mercedes tranny happened in mid 2001.
Overall, it is actually an easy car to work on.
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#8
07-14-2013, 01:39 PM
Senior Member
#9
07-23-2013, 09:45 PM
Hello and thank you all for your informative replies!
Despite owning an MG, I am no mechanic (an accountant, acutally!) and am VERY reluctant to open up the engine myself. I notice you all mention the SECONDARY tensioners as the ones to pay attentio to. Should I take away from this that the primaries aren't really to worry about on my 2001 XJR (built in Jan. '01)? Indeed, if I just need to change the secondary tensioners, I take it the zip-tie method would be ok and come in MUCH cheaper than doing both primary and secondary... But would the primary ones be likely to die on me eventually anyway? Car has 69k miles.
It is going into the shop next Monday to get oil and filter, transmission oil and at least the secondary tensioners changed... does it need the primaries done as well, at over $2k?
Thanks again!
Rick
Montreal
'01 XJR (aka Mrs. Thatcher)
'04 SAAB 9-5 Aero
'61 MGA roadster (aka Abigail)
Despite owning an MG, I am no mechanic (an accountant, acutally!) and am VERY reluctant to open up the engine myself. I notice you all mention the SECONDARY tensioners as the ones to pay attentio to. Should I take away from this that the primaries aren't really to worry about on my 2001 XJR (built in Jan. '01)? Indeed, if I just need to change the secondary tensioners, I take it the zip-tie method would be ok and come in MUCH cheaper than doing both primary and secondary... But would the primary ones be likely to die on me eventually anyway? Car has 69k miles.
It is going into the shop next Monday to get oil and filter, transmission oil and at least the secondary tensioners changed... does it need the primaries done as well, at over $2k?
Thanks again!
Rick
Montreal
'01 XJR (aka Mrs. Thatcher)
'04 SAAB 9-5 Aero
'61 MGA roadster (aka Abigail)
#10
07-23-2013, 11:45 PM
Veteran Member
#11
07-24-2013, 10:17 AM
Rick,
The secondaries are the ones to pay attention to and as an IT guy who is a shade tree mechanic I can assure you it is not very difficult or as scary as you may fear.
I would highly recommend renting the tool for this. The tool makes the whole process almost idiot-proof and will also ensure everything is set just as it should be and eliminates small but real risk of snapping shaft. Seriously, the hardest part was properly routing the serpentine belt! Replace your plugs while you have them out.
For a case of canadian beer you may be able to find someone on the list who can help you do the job. I would do so but am not even close to Montreal.
Mike
The secondaries are the ones to pay attention to and as an IT guy who is a shade tree mechanic I can assure you it is not very difficult or as scary as you may fear.
I would highly recommend renting the tool for this. The tool makes the whole process almost idiot-proof and will also ensure everything is set just as it should be and eliminates small but real risk of snapping shaft. Seriously, the hardest part was properly routing the serpentine belt! Replace your plugs while you have them out.
For a case of canadian beer you may be able to find someone on the list who can help you do the job. I would do so but am not even close to Montreal.
Mike
#12
07-24-2013, 04:56 PM
Senior Member
#13
07-25-2013, 04:45 PM
Member
The problem with these is that the casing is actually too small for the circuit board, so it'll gnaw off circuits over time. You can open up the box and see if some soldering may help, but getting a used working one shouldn't be too difficult.
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