Explanation:

When I say something like "sales were 232,032" I mean number of cars, of course.

 

How true. That phrase says it all.

My best,

Reinaldo
Redondo Beach, CA

 

I am torn on this one. I am in love with the interior of the X351, and mostly like the styling, but I just don't see a Jaguar when I look at it. It is so American looking, Ford stole the design for the new Fusion. If the X351 was anything but a Jaguar, I'd be impressed with it. As a Jaguar, though, it is a disappointment.

I wonder, could this new styling direction be secretly influenced by Tata?

 

Don't mean to derail the thread or anything but Cosbo in comment #28 is correct about Raquel Welch. A total babe even now... I am a young guy and have always thought she was the hottest, ever since I was a little kid.

 

 

Of course the new styles of most autos will attract the younger generation of people. But, when I drive into the parking lot of our yearly Jack Roush celebration(and it is a large show usually over a hundred & 50 cars, a lot for our small community) and I drive by a group of young people, I hear one say to the rest, hey look at that Jag I know our older styles are and will be endless classics and will be popular thru out the years.
Dave

 

From Forcedair, "Young people's comments that I always hear is that my 2002 XJR is "old folks" car. OK, but who are the "young" people that Jaguar is addressing with this pretty pricey XJ? IOW, how massive a market is that these young people represent? And how big is the subsection "wealthy young people?"

What is pretty pricey around the rest of the world for an XJ ? As I posted earlier I can't see sales going through the roof in Australia @ around $300,000.00. As for the Old Folks car I don't care what others perceive,it is what I want and like.

 

Absolutely correct, Gippsland. It is the reason why we prevail.
It's also a fact that Jaguar peaked sales at the very X308 times (early 2000's), so I wouldn't be surprised if current X308 owners still out number the last few years XJ owners (X350 owners not included), even when they are, by now, much older cars.

But, I still want to get to the bottom of this.

Jaguar risked everything when they renounced to their traditional doctrine that made Jaguars so appealing to the eyes of the world. But why? Well, it was in order to replace that image with one that appealed more to the young crowd (who didn't like wood, or low stance and super elegant lines) in the hope they would bail them out, so they joined the all-look-alike fastbacks. But, even when the car is supposed to be so improved and refined in most aspects, the attempt to gain an increase in the young people's market share has totally back fired.

Jaguar's radical change in direction has made zero impact in sales, while probably a good part of that market segment that Jaguar were after has gone to the competition: After an industry-wide sales drop in 2009, both, BMW and Mercedes recovered in record time via a sharp sales increase that saw them going up by nearly 100,000 cars each, while Jaguar in the same period went up by 56 cars. Where did Jaguar's young people target go?

On paper it did look like a sound plan, plus the cars, no doubt, feature superior cutting edge technology. Also, some fellows here have expressed their liking of the new XJ, so I ask, where does this astronomical difference come from? I say "astronomical" because, well yes, the difference in sales has been there all along (vs the usual suspects), but never, never as bad as the 100,000 cars vs 56 cars increase. Clearly, a good part of those 100,000 cars (200,000 for both brands) was purchased by the successful, professionals/business young people that Jaguar were targeting in the first place, and who, for some reason, turned around and became one of those 200,000 new luxury, non-Jaguar, car buyers. Again, why? Why if the Jaguar name is still there, plus they get a modern, non-old-folks-looking machine, but a...fastback like all others?

It's not only BMW and MBz. Audi was just another, obscure brand 25 years ago. Then, ten years ago they sold just a few more cars than Jaguar, but today, they out sell Jaguar, not twice the cars but ten-fold. Why can they do it and not Jaguar? What is wrong?

Reinaldo

 

Just wanted to pipe in on the issue of targeting the younger audience -- I wonder if the XJ was EVER planned to be a young person's car? The XF seems to be more geared toward the younger crowd, but the XJ, in my opinion, still looks and feels like a "gentleman's" car. I could be wrong, but that's how I see it.

 

I still talk to people and they still think jags are unreliable and are always breaking down-- which was true for-- I don't know-- ABOUT 20 years!! So, IMO, it takes time for that type of branding to go away. I was born in the 70's and ford had a similar reputation. So when ford buys jag in 1989-- my generation didn't see much of a difference. Now-- after further research and study, ford is a GREAT brand now and really IMPROVED jaguar. My only thinking is its the reliability stigma attached to jags. Are they seeing that same stigma with mbz or BMW or Audi? Nope......

 

That stigma may not be good for new car sales, but it's great for the person looking to buy a used Jag. My XJR cost $70,000 new, which is something I could never afford. The $4500 I paid, however, fits my budget just right. I mean, what else can you buy for that price that even comes half as close to the luxury and performance of a Jag? Jaguars are a bargain.

Let the haters keep hating, and those of us who understand and appreciate the Jaguar brand will continue to reap the benefits of their ignorance.

 

thats the spirit!!
there is NO WAY i couldve afforded my 80,000.00 for my car either, but at 12500.00 i couldnt pass it up!

 

I'll be turning 29 this year and I've driven 7 XJs since I was 20. I've owned four SIII XJ6s, an XJ40, an X350 base, and my current sweetheart is an X350 LWB. It disgusts me to see what's happened to the XJ. And my girlfriend and my friends all agree that Jaguar has lost its way. Just goes to show that not everyone in the younger demographic wants a Mercedes, BMW or Audi rip off. Sir William Lyons would be rolling in his grave.

That being said, I know that many X300 owners don't like the X350, but there's a reason I skipped over that model in my line of Jags. In my opinion, that was definitely a boring old man's car. I understand they were trying to recapture of the magic of the SIII XJ6, but I think they failed. And I believe the XJ's decline in sales began due to the public perceiving the X300 and X308 indeed as stodgy old man cars. So when the X350 was introduced, it looked like more of the same old story to most people. I believe that if the X350 had been introduced in the 90s as the SIII homage instead of the X300, things might have gone a bit differently.

I'm not trying to step on toes or bash anybody's likes or opinions...just stating my own.

 

Guys this is exhiliarating, but I believe as Jaguar owners and enthusiasts there is a Middle line that sadly, Tata and Jaguar have missed a tad!
Jaguar and Tata have got the figures wrong, quite simply and I am not saying that to any owner in detriment to their own particular taste, it is simply my opinion but I strongly am compelled to state for the record that many see things like me, oh and if Jaguar want some poetry to go with my new advertising post, I guarantee that I can sell "My new vision of jaguar" albeit with some help on the visual promotion side. Please bear in mind I have never owned a large prestige Jaguar any bigger than an X Type, but I now believe I have Jaguar in my blood and I long to own a few of this Wonderful range of Beautiful, Exotic and Classic Timeless Legends in Motoring History. First off, I am not a Lover of Ford although I believe they saved Jaguar as Jaguar did with Aston Martin, quite simply it was necessary and they invented the X Type, which I refer to as my "Baby XJ". I count my lucky stars that day when I bought my first X Type and my life changed for the better, I never ever thought I would own a Jaguar!!! As for the new XJ, it will grow on me but not as fast as any of the previous Jaguar line-ups, I believe that to be fact. I also state that due to the honest personal views expressed here and I am most grateful for the insight and wish to add you prpbably will not find such a collective and informing post on any other website for ANY OTHER CAR, because we are talking about Jaguar! I believe the one issue that interests all of us here is the impressions given over the direction of jaguar and the proposed future customers and that is simple.
If we cut to the chase, I think that jaguar dropped the X Type and the XJ too soon to properly identify the new breed. It could be that Jaguar took the right action but I disagree, not with the new XJ or the F Type or the XF! What they have done is great with the enhancement from Tata, jaguar have excelled possible woeful figures and have stayed above the waterline and I have met a few new XJ owners who are happy with the new line, but they are not excited about it like I am with previous line-ups. To me that does not bode well! The X Type R' and the XJR350 to me were the Jaguars that the youngsters could aspire to and the words ASPIRATION and INSPIRATION are what Jaguar need to be a classy, new world, classic and cherished creation of beauty, engineering and fascination. So why don't we put it to the vote as it is very much needed before we run out of ideas and arguements? I put it to Jaguar to release the X Type R' and re-release the XJR350 or redesign a similar model as I strongly believe this is the missing link!
And keep the new Jaguar lines as they are but with the addition I have stated. I have noted people have no time for the X Type but my next car will be the same and I shall then move to another Jaguar, but if I hadn't bought my first X Type, I doubt very much if I would be driving a Jaguar at all. All of your opinions are right (As you own Jaguars and you should have the right to influence Jaguar and have your say!) and it is up to Jaguar now and Tata to keep the Fleet in the right direction but also to refresh and renew without sacrificing taste, style, passion and charismatic uniqueness which I believe is what Jaguar is all about so please don't knock the X Type, they are still the biggest Jaguar model of all time and they kept Jaguar clocks ticking pretty well, or rather mine bleeding well does! Bring them back now, or design a new breed like an earlier post stated, a Quatroporte style model, er a bit like the X Type and the XJR350! I rest my case, fellow honourable members.
Best Regards, Stu

 

The X300/X308 in the R versions are one of the few four door sedans that groups of pedestrians will stop and look back for a better look and a discussion. It happens consistently. It doesn't happen with the X-Type, S-Type, X350 or XF. No idea about the newest fastback models.

Around here, four door Mercs and BMW's don't even rate slowing down for pedestrians.

 

I get that too sometimes....but, 240-400 plus horsepower.....aint no 'old man's car' in my book! LOL Allan

 

The focus on marketing to the younger demographics? Interesting, because almost all or all of the drivers of the new Jag's I see rolling around San Antonio and Austin are of my age group…50 or older.

I'm certain there is a certain subset of younger consumers that have the disposable income required to purchase the new Jag's…but will they…and what will drive that purchase? The love of design…unique lines and sexiness? I doubt it…doesn't exist with these new models that appear to have been modeled after so many other common-place autos i.e., Passat, Honda, Toyota…you get the picture Unless the "young-un" had grown up with a "love" of the Jaguar beauty of old, history or simply watched far to many Alain De Cadenet Speed Channel specials, it is doubtful they will pick the auto and the price point associated with today's Jags.

All my children are in their 20's…26, 24, 22 and the youngest just turned 21…two girls, two boys. They've grown up riding in gas and diesel autos, Honda (i'm somewhat ashamed to say), Jeeps, Peugeot, Mercedes(3), BMW (2), Audi, Jaguar XJ8 VDP and more recently my Ranger Rover and LR3. I provide this abbreviated history to indicate a somewhat well-rounded experience…to point out that they have been exposed to experienced various brands, looks and yes, the frustrations associated with attempting to "maintain" some of these models.

I find it interesting that our girls, the two oldest, do not like Vandy at all and really have no appreciation of her style and beauty. D1 loves fast and sporty…she learned to drive in my 300e, received a 325e as her first car and her last car before graduating from grad school and moving to NYC was a Saab turbo. D2 started driving with a A6, moved to a Volvo during college and now had transitioned to the sport SUV to better match her lifestyle…camping, biking etc., along with her dog.

S1 loves Vandy's beauty and sexiness. He started driving in the same Audi A6, moved to the same 300e and eventually wound up with my e32 735i that I had modified a bit with a BAV sport suspension, staggered wheels and some other goodies. He was the last driver of the 300e, which by the time it had to be "recycled" as a result of a couple of misadventures, may very have had over 1 million miles on it. Truly one of the most reliable and enduring vehicles I've owned. Point is, he appreciates and loves Vandy and her beauty…he'd love it if I would sell the car to him…or better yet, give it to him. But as much as he loves the car, that will not happen. He is "hard" on vehicles and quite honestly, this '99 XJ8 is far too "delicate and finicky" for his needs.

S2 has a healthy appreciation and love of the Jag's beauty, lines etc. But his appreciation of the vehicle is tempered or shall we say, held in perspective as a result of his being my "assistant" in bringing life back to the troublesome Jag (3 fuel pumps, washed cylinder no-start problem, exploding coolant system just to name a few) to many times.

BMW lost us during the Chris Bangle debacle days…****-poor designs that looked more like Hondas, with BMW emblems. Sure, the heart of the vehicles may very well have remained BMW…but the wrapper was ugly. In recent years my wife and I have moved thru what I call our "english" years with this Jag, the '02 Range Rover and my LR3…and two of the 3 have been, shall we say, challenging to keep on the road. My point is…of my my 4 children, 2 professionals with grad degrees and the youngest in pre-law, none are interested in the adulterated Jag's of today…they do not believe the models of today to be "Jag". Electronically, Jag benefitted from FORD ownership…unfortunately the "design" eventually suffered with the departure from the elegance of previous years.

As for myself, I continue to love the beauty of our '99 XJ8 VDP…the sheer beauty of her lines, her stance and the ride down the highway. Absolutely love her when she is running correctly. Alas, as of 2 days ago, the move back to better reliability has started with the purchase of another A6 Quattro.

As for the new models…I guess my case in point…wife and I are driving down the road and a few 100 yards down the road I see a shiny new car approaching the same intersection from the opposite direction. The interesting thing was, until we were close enough to make out the "bling" on the car and saw it turn left so we could see the "gills", the car really didn't standout as Jaguar. Could have been a Passat, Toyota, Honda…??? We both agreed, spot the previous model Jags from a distance…going, coming or from the side, and you know it is a Jag. Not so with today's XJ's and their LS460 body style.

 

I agree......Not into the new look of the XJ..

 

having owned an X308, X350 and X351.........i can comfortably say this is the best XJ they've ever built.

now in terms of the drastic change they did between the 50 and 51......i dont blame them for doing it. they needed to do something to revive the company and get people interested again.

as a person who has had to replace his hood leaper TEN TIMES (!!!!!) im glad they got rid of it. i sure as hell miss it, it was a sexy piece.....but its not so bad without it. i can finally stop feeling anxious everytime i walk back to the car....mentally preparing myself not to cry if the hood leaper is missing (again).

theres definitely no shortage of wood on that XJ

 

As an ambassador representing the young generation, young people love my car. I get compliments from people my age all of the time. It seems as though many young people would love to have my car (or a X308 XJR), but people tend to think it is very expensive to buy, unreliable, and impractical. I will agree, however, that the X308 is very desirable but impractical for my age group. People my age tend to think the XJR looks nice whereas the base XJ8 and Vanden Plas look old. This primarily is due to the small 16" rims. I tend to agree that the OEM 16" rims on the X308 make the car look dated, and like an old person's car. After I switched my 16" rims with 18" Asteroids, removed the white side pin stripe, and added a mesh grill, the compliments my car received seemed to skyrocket. I really didn't receive many compliments at all when my VDP was bone stock. People just thought I was driving my parents' old car. It was just a "nice old person's car" that people thought was older than it really was (in a bad way). Whereas now its "this is such a COOL car". Two different people have asked me "didn't James Bond drive this car in a movie?"

A few nights ago, some random girls took a picture of themselves kissing the hood ornament. This old car still gets some positive attention.

Young people love the XJR look, whereas the stock XJ8 or VDP look is much less popular.