I wouldn't risk starting the car to make a video. That could potentially really damage the engine and we might not be able to hear the sound of it properly, or determine the problem.

 

When you said the starter was struggling, did the car have to crank many times to start or was it cranking very slowly?

If its a rod, it would struggle to spin the engine. A tensioner problem will probably require alot of cranking before it started.

A failed tensioner could maybe reduce oil pressure? Since they depend on oil pressure to increase tension against the chain.

The tensioner could still fail while driving, esp during aggressive driving which activates the VVT on and off, placing more stress on the tensioner.

Maybe the metal pieces are from a chain being rubbed against by the failed tensioner?

When you said the engine began surging, was it running very roughly or just had a high idle? Did engine failsafe or restricted performance ever come up? Check engine light?

 

If it really is a failed tensioner, its prob a 90% chance its just the secondary tensioner. You could only have that replaced and be back on the road for like $1k.

 

Even though yours has the metal tensioners, the little plastic piece on top that the chain glides over could have snapped off causing the chain to ride metal and eventually fail.... This was the case on mine, but it didn't make any noise. There really is no knowing until you test some of the theories you have by taking parts of the engine apart and inspecting. If the mechanic is refusing to entertain the possibility and take the valve covers off to confirm, then I'd be a little cautious too. I don't like it when mechanics tell you its the worst possible thing and then it turns out to be something simple... Happened to me with my rover. There was some "grinding" noise coming from my transmission. The guy started pulling u-joints apart and etc. I told him the sound was coming from the transmission, but they never listen... This was early on before I started doing the work myself. I told him to replace the fluid first, but he dug into other stuff and racked up a nice bill for me to pay. The rover just needed the fluid flushed.... and when the mechanic finally listened to me, guess what happened? The grinding noise stopped. You can bet I was happy with him... He is a reputable guy here in the valley, but I don't trust him. Now I just do the work myself. Especially after getting shafted a few too many times. I've found I tend to do the work cheaper and in some cases better. I wouldn't run the engine anymore until its fixed. Keep your hopes high, it could be something simple and she'll be on the road in no time. I know what it feels like too, I am also a college kid .

 

Cranking was slow when I tried restarting it.

It wasn't running roughly. At least I didn't keep it running long enough to see if it either had a high idle or was running very roughly. The second I noticed the starter cranking longer and as soon as the car dipped below 500RPM to try and catch idle and surged, I turned the car off. I didn't restart it afterwards to prevent any further damage.

No Engine Failsafe or Restricted Performance or CEL came up. I just could tell the way the car started up and surged that something was wrong.

I also am an aggressive driver...in other words I love downshifting a gear or two and giving it the beans. I am an avid user of the V8 power.

 

Since you just came off some very "spirited" driving it seems I suppose its possible. Still a good idea to get the second opinion.

When I was 17 I wanted to see how fast my '85 Mercedes 500SL would go. I lifted at 150... The following week I was doing a valve job. Still have the car and love it, but it tamed me a bit on the romping.

 

I'll bet that was fun... When I was 17 I wanted to see how fast my Hyundai Santa Fe could go lol! It actually hit 125mph without much effort, I was kinda impressed. The handling wasn't bad either, no vibrations etc. The governor kicked in and kept it from going any faster. It will probably never go that fast again... I intend to take a Jag up to its max in the not too distant future.

 

Good to hear of a second opinion at a specialist - I think from what's been described is the secondaries, and its skipped. The misfire, the rough idle, and the whine will all relate to timing issues.

Having seen recent comments around cost, $900 seems to be the benchmark for new gaskets and secondary tensioners, fingers crossed hey?
Bearing noise is actual knock knock knock at tickover, and emits from lower engine. A horrid noise that turns my stomach when I hear it, because of damage to one of these isn't easy to fix..........(XJR crank, the same as yours)

 

JagScott, I had a similar experience with my Land Rover. It had a problem with missing. I went through a bunch of forums and tests and one experienced guy on my favorite Rover forum told me it was a sticky valve - not too uncommon on these. Anyway, I didn't feel like pulling the heads so I took it to a Rover shop and told them what was wrong and to fix it. They said "oh no, it's a coil". Wasn't coil, then they said, "your torque convertor isn't locking up". Wasn't torque convertor. Finally they said for a couple hundred dollars they would pull the valve covers and see if it's a sticky valve. I finally said, "I'm picking the car up and I'll do it myself". So they had my truck for a week, drove it to deliver parts, and charged me a bunch of money for diagnostics. I ended up pulling the heads, having a good shop do a valve job, put it all back together and I've been good to go ever since. Sometimes the "experts" don't know what the he\\ they are doing. As I've gotten older, I realize this is true for doctors, politicians, lawyers, just about everybody ... and it's all about the money. I'll shut up now. Best of luck.

 

OK....so I am royally screwed.

Second opinion confirms that a front end connecting rod bearing failed because the secondary tensioners failed and several pieces made their way through the oil circulation system finally ending up at the bearing and wearing it down or starving it of oil...

I don't know what to do.

I was quoted $10k at the first place for a new engine and then quoted $6800 at Don's...neither of which I can do right now...

so...wel....F8@)*&@!%#^@&^(@*&#*^%&%!@&*#^@(*&)(** &$%%$@!%#^@!*#*))()*!

 

ok, so the suggestion is an engine swap. Have you any holidays coming up? and how do you feel about a crash course in fitting an engine?

 

Depends on how difficult it is. I have three day weekends beginning on Friday because that's how I arranged my class schedule. I've never embarked on an engine replacement before.

I found one in Bayville, NJ that's an 03 XJ8 Engine with 94k miles for $1950 and I'm in the process of finding out whether it has the metal tensioners or not.

Question: Since I replaced the transmission and will have to replace the engine, is it worth it to keep the car or should I cut my losses and get rid of it? I love the car but if it's going to keep causing me problems it's bye bye.

 

it's your choice whether to carry on, the two weak links in an otherwise strong car have surfaced and it's just bad luck. It'd make me think about the options.
Buy something reliable with what you get back from the sale of a XJ with a bad motor? Do a motor change and recoup something? keep the car? I had a similar choice and stuck with it. At some point for me the cold financial cost of it was forgotten. Lots of factors in favour in my case. For you I'm not s sure. Time spent getting to know the engine swap might be worthwhile, it's how stubborn you are and how much you like the car that decides.

 

Well, now it makes sense. I'm just surprised there was no warning. Wouldn't oil pressure alarms have gone off before damage was done? I had an oil cooler line fail on a Mercedes once dropping my oil pressure to 0 and in the 5-10 seconds for me to notice get to the shoulder and shut the engine off I did no damage.

This thread link should be posted to anyone thinking about putting off that tensionor job.

As for your decision, I never would imagine taking on one of these as a primary driver while I was in college with a limited budget. For the $3000 you'd spend on a used motor/installation coupled with the $1500-$2000 you could get for the car right now if you popped it on CL, you could buy yourself a nice W124 chassis Mercedes like you used to have, or a soulless Japanese product. Debt is a very, very nasty thing, and to go down that path at a young age with student loans, credit cards, etc can bog you down forever. A $2000 3800 series engine Buick can get you through college and the moon and back, are smooth, comfortable, and simple.

The alternative is to learn how to work on your own car. The savings coupled with the skills you're learning will prove invaluable forever. I imagine modern Jags aren't easiest cars to learn on though. I started with old inline 4-5 Mercedes diesels. Get a Service Manual and think of it as Legos for grown ups. There also appears to be many knowledgeable people here to help you along. Time and space requirements may be an issue with this though. From what I read a 2003 motor would almost certainly have the updated tensioners. Take pictures of everything as you go so its easy to tell how things go back together.

Now that I'm working full time and have a side business I don't wrench nearly as much as I used to, but generally I can figure out what's wrong and the mechanics know to listen to me. The little nickel and dime stuff I take care of and farm out the 2+ hour jobs.

 

My car was totalled - I've done a complete reshell to a better than new standard. Never worked on an X308 before tackling this job. I did it on a sloping drive, between rain storms.
It can be done!
My engine went in in under two hours. There are a couple of things the 03 motor will have yours will not have. 4X O2 sensors. Electronic throttle body. The rest will bolt right up. Jaguar replaced nikasil units with the later engine without issue, so the 03' unit will have little to no problems, an outside chance you may need an engine control module reflash, a half hour job at the agents.

It's a two man job, you'll need an engine hoist/crane to extract your old engine. You'll possibly have to take off certain items from yours to fit to the new engine, starter/alternator, pulleys, pipework? It depends how basic the engine is when shipped to you. This is the fun part. you can create a "like new" motor by detailing and minting the donor engine while outside the car. Getting it as clean and complete as possible. You can check for metal tensioners at this point easily.

You'll need a metric socket set so you can get all the components off and on.

The bonnet will have to come off. The rad will have to come out (makes life easier).

Unbuckle all elec connectors, and sticky label them, take pictures of everything in place before strip down. Unbolt the engine at the mounts, and gearbox. Rope the engine lifting eyes and slowly lift the old engine out, making sure all connections are free.

I know it's a massive job for someone who's got no experience, but neither had I. I'm full of positivity on this, but if it's too much, I can totally understand.

First thing you need is somewhere to do the job, and a hand from someone who might know a bit about doing this kind of thing, and tools and time.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

Whow that is bad news!
Very sorry to hear that!

As for what to do...
I remember my old days when I was a student.
Money was always a rare thing and in no way I could have afforded a Jaguar or any other big car.
Good for you, that nowadays students seem to have more of a financial background.
But one thing I had plenty of - Time!

So If you feel that you are up to that task try to do the engine swap maybe with a little help of someone who knows about cars and stuff.
It really is no rocket science and with all the good help from this board you should get your car on the road again for not too much money.

Think of selling the Jag in an as is condition.
Even with the freshly overhauled tranny what could you expect?
1, maybe 2 1/2 K...
That would be a no no for me.

After you got your car on the street again you can have a second thought about keeping it or exchanging it for a model/make that is capable of your driving habbits (i.e. tracking, fast runs, etc. ...) I doubt that in the long run a 10 Year old XJ is the right fit for you.

BTW, didn't you plan on renewing the tensioners a few months back?
I know this sounds odd, but wouldn't that have saved you a lot of hassle?

Anyway - I wish you good luck whatever your decision will be !!!


David

 

I just read this and I really think it should be a stern warning to all owners that put secondary timing tensioner job off. I bought a 2002 that didn't come with service records and I haven't checked the engine out yet. So for all I know it could be a problem waiting to happen. I thought maybe you had a '98 or '99 and thought, oh well those go all of the time. But then I saw you had a 2002. Gulp...

 

Something I am noticing with the tensioners, is they can cause problems even if they are the metal ones. As Chinny said, a piece of the tensioner fell into the oil system and clogged one of the bearing oil channels, which eventually ruined the engine. The new tensioners, although metal, do have a plastic piece on top of them that will be worn down by the timing chain. It will eventually fall off the tensioner and go down into the engine. Not only can the plastic cause trouble, but the chain will start wearing very quickly because it will now be ridding across the metal portion of the tensioner. This is what happened to mine, except without a fried engine. Granted it was one of the old tensioners, but the same thing could still happen with the new ones.

Sorry to hear about that Chinny. I was really hoping I was right! From one college kid to another, I can understand the pain you are feeling. If I was in NJ I would certainly come by to help you with the motor if you chose to do the swap.Cheers and good luck!

 

Wow that is insane. The tensioner starved the engine for oil? Has anyone heard of this happening? I guess it could technically happen. Talk about bad luck.

 

I think im going to source a used engine and swap it in myself with my uncle who's done engine swaps before, just never worked on Jags.