I had a problem with Momentum Jaguar in 2004. I took my VDP in because my sunroof closed then went to tilt and would not close. Momentum Jaguar quoted me $700 to repair it which included several hours of labor and a new sunroof module. I declined the service, and my sunroof module was left on my seat uninstalled when I picked up my car. I re-calibrated the module myself (thanks roadfly.org. I didn't know about jaguarforums.com at the time) and didn't need any tools. I spent about 15 mins fixing it. They were trying to rip me off then. Even if the sunroof module had failed (which it had not), why was I going to be charged several hours of labor to replace it?

I have also had a Jag indy break state law and try to rip me off (he randomly replaced my fuel pump without my knowledge and asked for $700 when I only brought my car in for him to fix an issue with brake job he did the previous week), so I'm not saying all dealers = bad, and all indy = good or vice versa.

I have avoided Momentum after my experience. I think the problem lies with the wall (the middlemen) the dealers put between the tech and the customer. The techs are good people.

 

I agree, a good Service Advisor is the difference between a good experience at the dealer, and a bad experience.

 

The cheapest thing to do if you have one key, is to stick it inside the steering column trim near the lock cylinder. Then, get as many pre cut 'non chip' keys you want off ebay. This defeats the security feature, but lets face it, most X308's arent theft targets anyway.

 

I wanted to know how to get a new key and if a new key requires any special programming. To the respondents who understood that, thank you.

Dealerships have more overhead than the independent shops. I won't go into the business model but anyone can probably figure out why dealership service departments generally need to be aggressive. If you don't mind paying and don't really care whether things are being intelligently and properly diagnosed, by all means continue to go to the dealerships. They make you feel important and, heck, they serve great coffee while you wait.

All dealerships are not incompetent--my post never said that.
I'm 100% sure that Jaguar North has some very happy, satisfied, and loyal customers. I wanted to be one of them.
I'm 100% sure that Momentum Jaguar has some very happy, satisfied, and loyal customers. I wanted to be one of them.
All independent shops are not superior to dealerships--my post never said that. I've had my fair share of bad experiences with independent mechanics (in Houston) but I (right or wrong) expected fewer of them at a bona fide Jaguar dealership.
I also never "blamed" the techs. I think many of them are conscientious and very hard working people yet are likely pressed for time and are pressured to make decisions quickly and sometimes opt to replace parts as they troubleshoot. I'm smart enough to realize that sometimes there is a process by which you need to replace part A to see if part B is still suspect and you won't know until part A has been replaced. I get that. I am in an engineering field and I understand that troubleshooting can be a complex business.
Service writers have been, almost universally, ineffective. If they're under 25, they probably don't have enough experience to know much.

I had numerous bad experiences going to the dealership and gave them many opportunities to prove themselves competent. Time after time they disappointed and other shops not trained in Jaguar solved problems quickly and inexpensively due to good reasoning and diagnostic skills.

 

Jon, thanks for sharing your experience. Brutal thanks for sharing your valuable knowledge with us newbie forum members (as I have come across quite a few threads where you've given sound advice).

I just recently purchased my 03 Jaguar XJ8. I received only the valet key I assume, black head no FOB to push buttons to unlock. I've recently contacted an Ebay member in regards to acquiring to FOB's (one for the wife and one for me, along with one other valet key to leave in the glove box). Reading this thread I've seen several good points brought up. I am hoping that I can do the FOB programming without the dealership tacking on a fee. I'm hoping the instructions in the thread will allow me to program the FOB if I am correct. I know I will need to visit the dealership to have the keys cut, as I am unsure if local locksmiths have the ability to cut these keys (if anyone has had that experience please share).

I am sure we've all had horrible dealership and indy dealership experiences. I have done as Brutal stated "asked for a particular technician to work on my vehicle in the past". In fact, that particular tech was so in demand that I would wait a week if able to have him do my services and trouble shoot. I have an awesome BMW indy who is a Master Certified Tech with BMW with over 25yrs before striking out on his own. I've been blessed to be a member on several forums where individuals, certified techs and members contributed to increasing my knowledge of my vehicle and helping me maintain my sanity.

Thanks to everyone who's contributed to this thread and an advance to others who can help with my questions.

 

Zora, a locksmith that can cut "tibbie" keys can cut one and some have the software to program. But you have to call around and be aware that you may save nothing as some have posted in the past

 

Brutal,

Thanks!! I've searched for the name of the particular key blank and your response is exactly what I needed to read!! You rock!! TIBBLE, TIBBLE, TIBBLE...saying it 3 times because I'm not in KS anymore lol

Seriously, I'd prefer someone who knows the keys, programming and troubleshooting--as I know my desire to get this taken care of will cost me money either way. When the prior owner of my XJ8 said she only had 1 key and no FOB, my wallet lifted up in my pocket as I felt it getting lighter.

I'm a google and forum searchacholic, with often 20 tabs up! I'm diving into this car with a positive mind set, and knowing doing it right the first time--saves time and money.

Brutal, I grew up in the SE Houston area before heading into the military. I attended Dickinson and Clear Creek High School (graduated from Creek many years ago).

 

lol, my ex and friends I still have on FB graduated from CC. I lived just down the the street from Houston Raceway Park in Dickenson and raced my 1970 Camaro w/427 there. That was back in the early 80's though

 

Brutal, I attended a few races there back in the day but never made it on the track lol I have family members who still live in Dickinson. I keep in track with a lot of Gators and Wildcat alumni (Class of 86). Glad to meet a member who knows the area. Thanks again for all the information in this thread.

I hope at least 2 members in this thread should be greatly helped with the information you and Lear45 have contributed.

 

So here is my update on the key situation and new situation. Please feel free to give it to me straight doctor... how bad is this? So...2 keys no fob...$1400 at the dealership. Picked her up and drove to a very highly rated garage, who I do trust and has excellent ratings. We asked them to go through the entire car... mechanically speaking...none of the cometic I was hoping to get to. So far...the estimate is $3800. This is for 2 timing belts which I believe they said requires removing the front of the car and engine. Additionally the ( I think it is called the drive belt) needs replacement and replacement of valve covers. The wide belt at the very front of the engine. The car has a rebuilt engine that was done at 110,000 miles. There are now 148,000. her interior is lovely. She desperately needs to have her tinting redone and headliner replaced. Have no idea what that will cost. She needs anew paint job and 3 minor dents fixed. Here is my husbands question today. Assuming we do all of this...we have repaired everything the minute it has shown up...is it reasonable to expect we can get a few years of without hitting the price of a new car? I am getting kinda nervous...she is a thrill to drive...and feels like a tank...as in I feel safe to have my kids in this car. However...my memories of my old MG...are flooding back! I used to have repair guides and an emergency kit and basic tools with me at all times. My dream car...turned into a nightmare...I could not afford to keep. Oh how I loved that car. I am a hopeless romantic when it comes to classic British cars. Thanks All.

 

1998 xr toy--I'm sure you're feeling overwhelmed at the moment, rightfully so it's a lot to take in when it feels like your wallet is wide open.

Here's my take on the key situation. I received my Jag with only one key, no FOB. For me this is a no-no, as for my sanity I want at least 2 key FOB's and 1 valet and 1 that I have as of right now. After a few sleepless nights of anxiety kicking in of having only one key--I figured I'd take the most frugal route to alleviating my anxiety. I found a vendor on Ebay who sells the flip key in two parts-- two transponders with flip key and two FOB remotes. According to the vendor, once I receive I can simply combine the two parts and have a two working keys and FOB's once programmed. I found Brutals instructions on getting the FOB's programmed and printed those out. Once they key's and FOB's arrive I will combine them first and attempt to program the FOB's. If this works as planned I will go to a locksmith whom I've befriended to get the keys cut. He's not willing to say if he can program them until he has everything in hand. So far the four pieces have cost me $115--which will give me 2 flip keys w/FOB's. I just checked and they have been shipped.I will let you know how that works out in the upcoming week or so.

I'm not sure about the belt replacement costs of the engine with the Jags but the given price is close to what the 7 series BMW's cost (plus you get a few more items taken care of with the BMW for that cost). Seeing how you've meticulously taken care of the car, $4k for repairs to get you a possible 100k miles of driving outweighs a new car note in my opinion. Yet you have to remember that the actual value of your car may be what you're putting into repairs. Another option would be to find one of the cars here on the forum where the owner has documented all the maintenance, problems and fixes and perhaps purchase theirs.

From what you quote of your old MG, it reminds me of my old TR6 lol

I'd send Brutal a PM and see if the work being performed is the dollar amount quoted. I'm sure from all the posts I've read with his advice he'd know.

I will let you know how my key situation works out and good luck with whichever direction you decide.

 

first theyre talking timing chain tensioners not timing belts. Super charged engines have 2 drive belts on the outside.Internally all V8 and 4 chains, 2 primary and 2 secondary. which my question is this. Who rebuilt the engine? Was it rebuilt or a used engine installed. Big differance on the following. If a rebuilt engine the chain tensioners and guides "should have" been replaced at that time at it would have the proper updated new style upper chain tensioners. Theyre maybe thinking that theyve never been done and if not this is good advise to change them out. Because it can cause a engine failure and there is little if any warning. You have to pull just one cam cover to check for sure but that is the only way. If the engine was rebuilt and properly then throw all their recommendations out the door...not needed

 

I have to say I don't know the specifics of the rebuilt vs salvaged on the engine. We bought her after that had been done. She had started running rough. They did take three hours to thoroughly go thru the entire car and charged for 2. They have a very sound reputation for not ripping off European car owners who want to drive and enjoy there not new cars. I am now waiting for an updated quote on adding joints and suspension repair and alignment. If assuming this is all done properly...do you feel it is reasonable to get at least 50,000 miles out of her before going through this again? I will pm you the name of the shop...I don't feel okay mentioning names publically...thank you so much...
MAC #CLIENT REPORTS: VEHICLE IS RUNNING ROUGH...CHECK ENGINE LIGHT ON 120.00 120.00
INTERMITANTLY. has rough idle and knocking noise from timing chain 0.00
issues.faults stored are p1260 security input malfunction. and p1000 system 0.00
check not complete since last fault memory clearing.
MAC #CHECK FOR OTHER NEEDED SERVICES 0.00
MAC TEXAS STATE INSPECTION 39.75 39.75
MAC needs timing chains, guides and tensioners replaced. per sib 09 01 1998 2300.00 1543.47 3843.47
and 03 01 2005, for rough idle and knocking noise from tensioners and 0.00
guides 0.00
1.00 HTK 100 TIMING CHAIN KIT
1.00 NCC 7740AD DRIVE BELT
4.00 JFB 10607B025 CHAIN TENSIONER BOLT
1.00 AJ8 3699 TIMING COVER GASKET
1.00 NCA 2127AC TIMING COVER GASKET
2.00 AJ8 2856 VALVE COVER O-RING
1.00 C2C 37055 Drive Belt
1.00 NCA 2516AE Valve Cover Gasket
1.00 AJ8 8400 VALVE COVER GASKET
28.00 NCA 2575CA VALVE COVER SEAL WAS
4.00 AJ8 7242 VALVE COVER SEAL WAS
8.00 AJ8 7206 SPARK PLUG SEAL
3.00 G 012 A8G 1G COOLANT/ANTIFREEZE S
1.00 EAZ 1354 OIL FILTER
1.00 DISPOSAL FEE
7.00 LM 2039 5W30 MOTOR OIL
MAC recommend tensioners when doing the timing chain tensioners. 125.00 455.70 580.70
1.00 NCA 7739AE Acc. Belt Tensioner
1.00 C2C 37057 Accessory Belt Tensi
1.00 C2S 46862 Acc. Belt Idler Pull

 

I'm pretty sure there is a capacitor inside the "chipped" keys that is charged by an induction coil around the lock cylinder. A key "near" the lock might be read but could eventually die and leave you twisting in the wind with your non chip key.
I stand to be corrected by the experts.

 

So if Immobilization is activated the only way is to take it to a dealer? What if, hypothetically, one had another car they could pull any and all parts from including the ignition, induction coil, etc? What all would need to be swapped?

 

instument pack and then you run into issues because this would then have to be programmed to the car anyway. you end up with many issues trying to mix and match programmed modules from other cars. they all have vid block, vin coding and mileage stored. you end up with a expensive paper weight if your not carefull and end up with file coruptions in configuratations and vid blocks. ive had shops do this and had to start with clean new modules and get a vid block correction fix from jaguar to fix. And on a older car theyre not going to do it.

 

a p1260 will NOT turn on check engine light, its stored in so many cars its ignored. If thats all they pulled theyre not reading the car with compatible Jag software and its not a OBD2 code that any scanner will read.
He is reffering to bulletins that as I said earlier may be done already. Best thing is to pull the pass side cam cover(easiest) and inspect the tensioners. heck take a pick and post many here not even techs know what good new style ones look like. Tensioner replaced with belt??? Are they squeeling? or is he changing to Jaguars updated style that takes new double ribbed belt, new tensioner and idler?? To me uneeded parts. Maybe not charging extra since they would come off anyway with front cover. But most shops also make money on parts too as they get them cheaper than you can and charge list.
This is a lot to take in but you came on here and asked

 

I am grateful to you for the time and energy put into educating me! Heck, I even asked my husband if we could just put her on a trailer and bring her to you in Sugarland!!! I guess at this point...we are in so deep...I just need to resign myself to paying for it all to be done...keep those records as well...and pray for the best. Thanks to all!

 

Like i said have them pull 1 cam cover and take a pic of the secondary tensioner. Its the only way to know for sure and either you need to spend all that money or not. Thats alot of money for guessing. I have pulled cover before and found new tensioners, i didnt do the job and buttoned back up. People always like to save that kind of money no matter your income. So mechanics are going to go ahead and do anyway. Like i always say, i can't see through steel or plastic, don't see into the future and cant lay hands on a car and diag....although sometimes pretty good over the internet

 

1998 xjr toy--Update--today I located a locksmith who could program my keys once received but he wouldn't guarantee that they would work since I did not purchase them from him. He did state that he kept the keys in stock and could do programming of 3 for ..wait for it...wait for it....$300 lol These are keys without the FOB. Still not the price range I was looking for considering my normal locksmith said his machine was down *sigh*--so I he referred me to this particular locksmith.

Brutal-I was informed by the locksmith that only 4 keys could be programmed to a car at one time. He also stated that if programming did not take he'd have to clear out the old keys and reprogram them all to my car. My question is "Do you know the exact number of keys that can be programmed to an '03 Jag XJ8?". Thanks in advance!