Hope this isn't too beneath my esteemed forum mates...

Looking at buying an XJ8 for the wife - 1998 thru 2003.
I like the idea of the longer wheelbase, was the supercharged XJR built that way too?
I've only seen short ones.

Another;
How many Jaguars were built with sunroofs? As a percentage, does anybody know?
I DON'T want one!
I'm just wondering what that does to my odds of finding a nice car with fewer headaches and more headroom.

Thanks!

Dee

 

Yes, the supercharger was available in LWB model. A very few 1998, more in subsequent years. Initially dubbed "Super V8" in US market, then Super VandenPlas.
Alas, all USA X308s have a sunroof. I hate the things too, and they impinge on already scant headroom. I actually explored having mine removed by a body shop when I bought my 1999 XJR new, but could not source a headliner, so it's still there. And I still hate it.
Lots of XJR info, production numbers, etc at this site, which unfortunately seems to have been abandoned by its developers....http://www.xjr-registry.com/production_data/
Fantastic cars, though. You need one!!
Cheers, and welcome to our world :-)
________

1999 XJR

 

Like Markus says, there was a LWB supercharged car. "Vanden Plas Supercharged," was the model 1998-2001, though the external badging didn't say that till 2001. The name was switched over to "Super V8" for 2002-2003 (this name continued on into the x350 cars).

The only exterior differences on the early cars from a standard Vanden Plas are 17" wheels and larger XJR-style exhaust tips. The VDP S/C's also had CATS suspension throughout their production, something the US-market XJR's didn't get till 2002. VDP S/C's also got the larger XJR front brakes.

TTYL
David

 

I understand CATS suspension is a sort of electronic stabilization/ride control thing?
One more thing I am NOT interested in.

So, stay away from the VDP to have normal shock absorbers, eh?
I can live without the blower to avoid the suspension headaches.
I was intrigued by the power output though.
Hmmmm....

I've seen enough headaches (and $$$$$) due to electronic suspension issues on otherwise nice cars, I don't suppose Jaguar is any different when things go wrong, eh?

What sort of suspension service issues would one expect, worst case scenario?

If it turns into a maintenance nightmare (like my wife's previous pieces of ****) she will refuse to drive it and I'll have to pay to fix it simply to sell it and attempt to recoup my cash.
Of course, that's a possibility with any used car - but I like mechanical simplicity.


Thanks Markus for the weblink, and DavidB for the additional info.

:-)

 

NeoCon -- Judging by the Marshall stack, I will assume you either: (1) are oddly obsessed with the Richter scale and have a deep-seeded need for soul sparking, earth rattling power in the palm of your hand; (2) seek an ecumenical-like unity of heart, mind, and spirit from your connection to both the natural and synthetic world; (3) have an affinity for only the very best in British made "necessities"; (4) routinely enjoy playlists combining classical, jazz, blues, rock, metal, country, and maybe even reggae into one musical journey, but have never owned a single hip-hop or rap track; (5) have become disenchanted with the dry Arizona heat/cold and feel compelled to be wrapped in something soaked in an English mist; or, (6) all of the above.

If one or all of those come close to describing you, whether you should buy an XJ8 or XJR depends on your answers to several questions. First, since it will be her car, do those things also describe your wife? Since she obviously married you and, at the very least, puts up with a Marshall stack, a Les Paul, a Strat, and whatever other likely accompaniments you own, I guess she probably does. Next, have either of you driven an XJ8 or XJR? Not just a test drive around the block or up to speed for a few minutes on the highway, but for several hours or days? My experience, at least with the XJR, is that once I drove the car long enough to know its character, I was hooked. No sunroof or suspension issues could change that addiction. That my morning coffee mug has no "home" in this car is a nightmare for me, but not even that nightmare could dissuade me.

I suppose my long-winded point is that there is a reason people buy jags despite their reputation as temperamental. Its the same reason you might own a '68 Fender Twin Reverb -- sure, replacing all those tubes can be a real headache, but the minute you hit that first chord or note, damn it sounds good! You just know its for you. While all the wonderful folks on this forum will provide you a wealth of information, help save you some time and money when problems arise, and be a source of and sounding board for all the humor, heartache, charm, and confusion that might go along with the car, only the tuning fork in your loins can tell you if the car is right for you.

That said, if your wife is anything like mine, get her a Toyota or a Honda and get the Jag for yourself!

 

NeoConMan, if you're trying to avoid CATS, it's only found in the Vanden Plas Supercharged or Super V8 (all years) and 2002-2003 XJR. So that leaves you with an early XJR, standard Vanden Plas, XJ8, or XJ8L.

You can quickly see if a car is equipped with CATS by looking at the tops of the shock towers under the hood--wiring going to the shocks means CATS.

It's a faily simple system that doesn't fail too often--standard coil springs (so no leveling to fail), a control module, and dual-mode shocks.

There are plenty of gotchas on the x308's, but I don't think CATS is one of them.

TTYL
David

 

Don't judge me!!!




(1) Okay, you nailed it.
(2) Huh? My ears are ringing - sorry...
(3) Well, Marshall is British made...
(4) Playlist is simple. Blues & rock, a bit of metal or country, no hip-hop/rap.
(5) LOVE Arizona heat/cold, I now avoid humidity like the plague.

Wow, STX!
You're GOOD!


Yeah, the wife tolerates my guitar fetish, even encourages it when one I'm thinking of buying is "pretty" in her opinion.
She doesn't much care for the Marshall stack, so it's reserved for the guys.

Neither of us have driven an XJ8 or XJR. I'm hoping to do the leg work and find a few shining examples of the breed to expose her to, that way her decision can be free of worries - and logic - and her decision can go back to that 'Oooohhhh....' factor that first attracted her to them.
Seriously, she NEVER owned a decent car so this is big for her.
I want to rule out as many headaches as possible and buy her a nice one.



I think you nailed it with the amp reference, and the tuning fork in both our loins seem to be tingling.....

My wife has never even owned a Toyota or a Honda, though all her friends do, and the quiet service they give seems to be lost on her at Age 40.

Yeah, I'll continue lurking here and surfing the local ads.
We'll go drive a few to see if she's still interested afterwards.

 

So Tx,

Fine piece of writing, and much appreciated.

 

No, not judging; maybe I should have said observing! And I never even touched the "federally licensed gun dealer" part of the equation. That degree in psychology comes in handy occasionally, even if "comes in handy" does not equal "earns more than $6.15/hr." But, I also know my guitars and amps fairly well, so I figured a guy with that kind of rig could not be too different from me. I have been forced to scale down to an Epi Les Paul Custom, a Sigma (cheapo Martin) cutaway acoustic, and a 1929 National Squareneck Tri-cone Steel guitar. I'm in the market for a new amp, since the Les Paul just hangs on the wall without one. Anywho, that's another forum, I suppose.

I wish you luck in your purchase and hope you will let us know how it turns out, preferably as an owner/member of the forum.

JTO -- I appreciate the appreciation. But, the service and expertise you and the other techs on this forum provide is what is deserving of appreciation and accolade. So, thanks!

 

Neo-Con....Cats works fine, I would avoid earlier cars on account of timing chain issues...Far more of an issue. I have an 02 XJR...it's the best car I have ever had or am ever likely to have!!!

 

Thanks for the kind words and advice SoTxXjr.



Uh-oh, pjkbrit...
Timing chain issues?
When did we get past the issues?

What years have the black eye?

Is it also a problem with the supercharged motors?

 

Welcome Neocatman...

Whatever you opt for Jaguar-wise, and as I'm sure everyone in the forum will agree, the best and probably most important things to check for when buying an XJr/XJ8 1998-2002 is if the engine has been replaced for steel lined bores NOT the Nikasil version, there are many threads on this forum that describe the problems associated with the dreaded Nikasil engines.

The other fundamental thing to check for (to save you much heart-ache and money) is if the Jaguar on offer has had replacement Timing chain tensioners both primary and secondary, new Thermostat and water pump..

Again, there are numerous threads available here that will guide you in the right direction...

Remember, once you have driven a Jag, there is NOTHING that will tempt you away! welcome to our contageous disease!!!

 

NeoCon, the issues regarding the nikasil engine and the timing chain issues are nothing to be frightened by, but they do require a little knowledge on your part before you purchase an XJ8 or XJR.

First, beginning in 1998, Jaguar used nikasil to coat the cylinders in an effort to avoid the added weight and expense of installing steel liners. Nikasil allowed the aluminum engine and pistons to interact with relatively little friction. Also used by BMW and Porsche and a variety of other manufacturers before Jag, the nikasil coating proved extremely durable and diminished friction related heat and wear in race car engines, such as formula 1 cars. But, unknown to the car companies was the effect of poor quality fuel on the nikasil coating, which tends to not be an issue in formula 1. Nikasil, a nickle-silicone-carbide concoction, was subject to degradation by high levels of sulfer in lower quality fuels. Generally, this was more of a problem in Europe than the US and in cars driven short distances for the majority of their lifespan. Because of changes in fuel over the past decade, sulfer tends to not be such a problem and a good nikasil engine should be fine in the future. In 2001 (and maybe some late production 2000 model year?), jag returned to steel lined cylinders, even though the issues in fuel quality had mostly been resolved. So, the model years you need to look for are 1998-2000 with VIN range with last six digits of "F" plus five numbers (I think all F_____ series vin's are steel lined, but the precise ranges are easy to find on this forum or by google). Service history should be a good start, check if cylinders or engine replaced. Also, any replaced engine should have a green sticker somewhere to indicate as such. Leak down test for any higher mileage (75,000+) may also be a good idea, although not a definitive 'yes" or "no." You can check for large amounts of oil in the air intake tube or air filter box, which may be a sign of lost compression caused by nikasil breakdown. The only way to positively diagnose is to take a look at the cylinders. Some of the techs on this forum have described this process in other threads, so a search for nikasil will likely turn up the info you need to make an informed decision.

As for timing chain tensioners, 1998-2000 MY XJs also used plastic timing chain tensioners (upper). Over time, the tensioners would break down and crack, which could lead to the chain skipping a tooth or two. One tooth skips and you get a really rough engine; two and you get catastrophe and mass hysteria. Strangely, the internal components of both your engine and your wallet simultaneously explode, so to speak. Both can be replaced with hard work and perseverence, but neither is ever the same and the replacement of one largely depends on the depletion of the other. Luckily, this is a much easier issue to find and/or correct before meltdown. Sevice history should tell you if they have been replaced with an aluminum version. If they are starting to go, cold start will likely have a very characteristic rattle that any jag tech should recognize. Otherwise, take the covers off and look at them. If they are orange and plastic, they are evil; if they have an aluminum exterior, they are friendly. If you love the car, but the tensioners are plastic, have them replaced and drive in peace. Not exactly a cheap repair, but worth every penny for the car and the satisfaction of driving it. You can also find numerous explanations on this forum and elsewhere for a DIY replacement procedure. Also, should not be an issue after 2000 MY.

While both nikasil and chain tensioner issues are a black eye on an otherwise beautifully designed power plant that integrates both power and refinement, they are nothing to be scared of, now that you now what to look for when you go shopping. As always, get it checked out by a qualified mechanic, preferably a jag and ASE certified tech. Or, just buy 2001 or later and avoid the issues all together.

Let me know and I can send you a few resources on the issues, if I still have them.

 

FYI -- Timing chain tensioners issues include engines with the last six digits of their VIN numbers between 812256-F41862. Also, Jag switched back to steel lined cylinders beginning August 2000.

 

Thanks for adding the detail to my comments SoTxXjr, a very well written guide!

 

I completely agree with SoTxXjr's reply regarding the feared Nikasil issue. If any Nikasil engine runs OK presently and has covered normal miles for a 10 year old car, there's no reason to believe it shouldn't run fine in the future.
I have a Nikasil-engined XJR with 110.000 miles driven in Germany and France for the first 6 years and still working as it should.

However, if a Jag V8 buyer wants to avoid a Nikasil-engine, the only way to be absolutely sure is to check the engine number. If I have understood correctly, even some of the VIN F-series cars had Nikasil engines as both steel-linered and Nikasils were used for a while side by side at production site.
Steel liners were introduced from engine number 000818-1043(a build date of18th of Aug 2000, 10:43 am). The engine number is stamped on the left side cylinder block inside the "V" behind the thermostat housing. A photo of the appx. location can be found here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ap_shared

Also, as pjkbrit pointed out, the CATS-system seldom causes any problems. The dampers are naturally more expensive than standard, otherwise there are no issues with them.

 

I agree with Ari and SoTx also, but I have a 2001 VDP and it has Nikasil. My engine number is below the threshhold even though the MY is 2001. Also, my engine number is stamped on the left side of the block under the exhaust header. I got a good look at it when I had the left front wheel off and looked in thru the wheel well. It starts with LL00 ..... and is made up of the manufacture year, month, day, hour, minute. I do have a VIN that looks like F12345. I have heard that Jaguar no longer thought Nikasil was a problem once the high sulfur fuels were pretty much eliminated somewhere around 2000. I think I have the ultimate no-compromise Jaguar V8, light, low-friction, durable and high-revving. But then again, I guess I would - cause I ain't planning to get it re-sleeved w/steel liners !

 

I have a 2001 Vanden Plas with CATS, and after 100K have had no problem with it. Smooth and stable ride from which I will not willingly part.

 

Morgai 1, just wanted to say, your jag looks the part outside Pittville pump room