Hi folks -

On Sunday I picked up what is sort of a dream come true - an '03 XJR. I have quite literally lusted after a Jag since I rode in a family friend's early '80s XJ6 when I was maybe ten. I've looked off and on over the years, but none of the pieces really ever fell into place, and despite complete automotive schizophrenia, the one rule I've always stuck to is to never force a non-essential purchase.

Well, the stars aligned this weekend and it happened, and now a shiny anthracite XJR sits in my driveway.

Unfortunately - in an almost comical fashion - the second I drove off after exchanging money for title, the ABS light flicked on followed shortly thereafter by the Low Coolant warning on the information display. :lol: I thought I was safe after a 45 minute, 20 mile test drive and very thorough inspection, but no such luck. No matter, I continue undaunted!

I've done a lot of reading here and elsewhere to try and get a grip on this symptoms, but any further guidance is sincerely appreciated. Here's what I've got:

The ABS light is accompanied by the "ASC & Trac Not Available" warning on startup. The light originally came on while on the freeway, moving at ~70mph. After a shutdown and restart it did not come back on for the remainder of the 30 mile drive. I put the car in the driveway, and when I came back out to move it perhaps two hours later it came back.

I checked the relays for rattling or corrosion, and removed and inspected the big plug on the valve body. I then checked the tire (tip from somewhere!), and found the RR about six pounds low. I set them all to the same pressure, and since there - four drives, a total of about 50 miles, the light has remained off. Maybe that's cured!

The Low Coolant light is a little more troubling. I checked the system when cold last night and it was maybe 16oz low. I filled it using plain distilled water, and then put about 30 miles on it. This morning, it was perhaps 4oz low. Additionally, there was a slight drip from the front splash guard, directly under the front reservoir. Took me forever to figure out where the drip was from! I could find no damp/loose hoses anywhere, and the radiator seams look spotless. The spot on the driveway was *maybe* dime sized. It's a *tiny* overflow.

Here's the weird thing: What is in the top reservoir is mostly brown - I think because someone mixed "universal" green stuff with the factory orange (is that G12?). However, the front reservoir is filled with bright orange fluid, perhaps 1" below the overflow. Clearly, water is overflowing into the front reservoir then dripping onto the ground. Seems odd that what's in the overflow does not match what's in the reservoir, though.

This morning I went by the dealer (fortunately one mile from the house!) and got a new coolant cap. My theory being it works ok under pressure, but the o-rings aren't sealing adequately for vacuum to suck overflow back into the system. I just did a 20 mile drive, and will do another 40 miles before the end of the day. I'll see where that gets me - hopefully to a good place! (that is, not closer to a head gasket replacement!) I'm hoping that this slight loss has been ongoing, and the previous owner simply added new instead of fixing the issue. (He seemed like an up and up guy, but who knows?)

Those are my two real problems. The car has some minor trim issues - inexplicably the CHMSL is trashed, but also the front cupholder and the passenger side power seat controls. Minor stuff, really. The body is very straight, the engine and transmission work fantastically. The paint was horrifically oxidized, but a 30 minute pass with the DA and some Meguiar's polish put the shine back into it - it needs more attention, but now it looks like a car that needs a wash and not a neglected supercar. The PO put new tires, new brakes, and new shocks on it within the last year, so it goes/turns/stops quite well. I was prepared to replace those broken bits this morning, but I think I am going to hold off to make sure I'm not staring down the barrel of Serious Engine Work.

Wow - sorry for the long post. If anyone has any words of wisdom on my cooling or ABS situation I'd love to hear them.

Thanks!

 

Just to be sure, is your car made of steel or aluminium ? The two cars are completely different. AFAIK the aluminium cars date from 2004, but yours could be a very early sale in the US.

 

I expect it's steel, although I haven't checked with a magnet. Manufacture date was late '02 (I don't remember offhand). Oddly, the warranty book in the glove box is "for Model year 2002 automobiles" but the window sticker and title both say '03. I suspect it's a very early '03, rather than a very early '04.

 

Not sure if you bought this from a dealer, however if you are really concerned I think you have 3 days to return this vehicle?? Perhaps someone else can chime in on this for specific California used cars laws. It might be an option if there are some major issues?!?! If you bought it private party I think the car is used. Either way hopefully it's some minor wrinkles that need ironing out?!

 

California law protects the seller in terms of buyer's remorse... once you've driven off with the car it's yours, unless you can prove the seller intentionally deceived you... in that case it's fraud, and that's a tough case to prove.

Regardless, I am concerned about the issue but I feel I got a good enough deal on the car that even if it were to need the head gaskets attended to I'd be okay. At this stage, I am mostly interested in determining what the problem is, rather than whose problem it is.

The ABS light has not returned after a total of about 70 miles, so I feel fairly confident fixing the tire pressures addressed the issue.

After about 50 miles with the new cap I have not gotten another Low Coolant warning, but the car has spat up another (very) small amount of coolant. Also, I could see a single small drip forming on the bottom of the reservoir bottle - clearly, that's where the overflow is from. I couldn't quite determine if the source is the bottle's actual outlet, or something else - perhaps a crack in the bottle, or an ill-fitting hose, etc.

It could be that the front overflow is still overfull, but I still can't quite grasp how:

a) The level on the overflow doesn't change, even with the car hot, even when there is coolant on the ground. It's still an inch below the outlet.

b) The color of the fluid in the overflow bottle still is bright orange. It seems like if even a little of what's in the reservoir ended up in the overflow, it would be obvious.

I'm also starting to wonder if the problem isn't with the hose between the reservoir and the overflow, or perhaps the bottle itself is damaged. I can see where the hose disappears through the sheet metal, and it feels like it attached to something below, but otherwise it's a mystery. I guess I'll pull off the splash shield this evening and see if maybe I can see something else.

Also, the build date is 3/02 and the emissions sticker on the radiator support is for MY2003 vehicles. And my magnet sticks to the body.

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of Jaguar . . . and to this forum!

After all the words I think the remaining issue is an unknown coolant leak. Many have spent hours, days, weeks and lots of posts trying to determine what is leaking. A quick rent of an auto parts store pressure tester will tell you in about 5 minutes.

Perhaps a complete flush of the coolant is appropriate after the leak is determined and repaired.

 

Well, I think I know where the leak is - I just don't know why it's leaking there. Believe me, the second I got home after getting the car I scoured this and other forums searching for similar symptoms... the only scary one was the one that ended up in a head gasket replacement.

I am definitely going to flush the coolant - I just don't like the color in the reservoir. I'm assuming it's G12, which would be super convenient since that's what the Saab and Audi both use! I will look that up. I'll also do a pressure test (I've got a tester), although IME this doesn't seem like a normal cooling system leak problem. Can't hurt to try though!

I just got home from the office and had the presence of mind to open the hood with the engine running and look for any drips. None. Shut the car off, still no drips. No movement in the overflow bottle, either. There is the slight smell of coolant, but it could easily be from previous spillovers. My drive is only about 10 miles, but it's in traffic so the car should be as hot as it'd ever be.

I'd be really happy if that new reservoir cap fixed the issue - I'd really rather focus on important things like broken cup holders than a head gasket failure.

 

Welcome, the leak could honestly be a hair line crack in the reservoir itself, that's what the issue was with mine. It was barely dripping and I only seen it drip 1 drop after it was drove for awhile. It's a tricky one.

They're needy but you'll enjoy the project

 

I yanked off the lower splash guard. Conveniently, it's cracked in half so I only needed to remove a couple fasteners. At first I thought I saw exactly that, a cracked bottle - but it looks like it just has a wacky, sort of wandering seam on one side? The bottle is shaped oddly, so the asymmetrical seam seems appropriate. It was bone dry, not a hint of moisture. That's an improvement from last night or even this morning! I cleaned up the entire area with CD2 Engine Detailer (it's easy) and squeezed it in several places to see if it was weak anywhere, but it appears intact and sturdy. I verified the hose from the reservoir is still in one piece, and it's visible very close to the little bulb in the bottom of the bottle. Seems like all of that is as it should be. Hopefully with that piece of splash guard removed and a spotless area I'll be able to see quickly if anything is amiss. I was debating putting the splash guard back on to give any drips somewhere to pool, but I think this is a good step. Only thing left to do tonight is wait a few more hours for the engine to fully cool and I'll check the level in the reservoir. Fingers crossed it's still full.

 

1- the thermostat tower likes to crack and weep

2- the heater hoses (under the intake manifold) also develop sloooow leaks.

The slight smell of coolant w/ slow loss of coolant level that doesn't show up on the garage floor can often be traced back to one of these.

 

After sitting til cold the reservoir was not full. Not truly low, but not where I left it, either. I topped it off and went for a ~20 mile drive, using quite a lot of throttle (maximum cylinder pressures! ) and stopping a couple times along the way. At each stop, there were clear signs of overflow - and with the splash guard removed coolant was free to blow across the LCA and inside of the wheel. It's very clear it's coming from the overflow bottle - there is a spot on the plastic fender liner, then it trickles down until the wind catches it and it's blown backwards. I am certain that bottle is the one and only source of loss.

I have a couple questions that can probably only be answered by experience:

1. On the average day you check your coolant level, where is it in the reservoir? Right up at the top of the bottle (minus room for the cap, obviously), or lower than that?

2. How full is the overflow by the bumper supposed to be? Through all of this, the level in mine has not changed. There is perhaps 1/2" between the level of the coolant and the outlet, not much room. It seems any nearly amount of expansion is going to result in overflow onto the ground. Is there a level at which it's supposed to be? Is it supposed to be empty? Anyone looks at theirs on a routine basis to know where it sits on average?

I have never seen a cooling system exactly like this. Every car I've owned with a pressurized cap has expansion room inside the reservoir, and on those cars (Saab, Audi, Alfa, Volvo - I've owned a lot of cars!) coolant level will vary by a good amount hot to cold. If I have the XJR's reservoir filled to full, any expansion will end up in the overflow bottle, and very quickly that will end up on the ground. The closest car I've got with a similar design is my Fiero, but on that car the level is checked in the overflow tank, with the engine hot and running. My XR4Ti was similar, too, and required checking the level in both places (past tense - I've since swapped that car to a later cooling system without that secondary overflow!) I'm having trouble grasping how you can know the system is properly filled without knowing the level in both places. Unfortunately, at this time I just can't trust that filling the reservoir to the bottom of the neck and letting Coventry sort it out will bring me any sort of happiness.

If anyone has answers to my questions I'd be appreciative. This problem is driving me insane. More insane than my broken cupholders.

 

Welcome to the world of Jaguars.
Have you access to an OBD11 reader to see what/if any codes are stored? Eliminating codes is a good start to see what re-appears/if anything. No to the top reservoir being filled to the top.I have a "peg" sticking up from the bottom (seen with a torch) that filled to just cover it is the correct level.
The cupholders and ashtray are a travesty and obviously never used by who is responsible for them.
Pro is you have a XJR and once sorted you have a really nice XJR..Coolant leak chasing is part of the charisma. Did I mention that it's an XJR! Nice.

 

Welcome my Anthracite XJR Brother Just FYI, I live only about 1 hour from you. If the leak ends up being the hoses under the super charger, which then would require supercharger removal, I could help you/walk you through it as I've done that a half dozen times now.

You will definitely want to buy some sort of code reader. These are required equipment when owning a Jag.

 

Gippsland: I have at least a few OBDII readers. I haven't taken a car to a mechanic for a very long time, and a good reader is part and parcel of maintaining any reasonably modern cars. I actually brought my best one when I bought the car, and checked for codes right after the test drive. Nothing is pending or confirmed, so whatever problem it has is (currently) minor enough the electronics aren't aware of it.

Also *very good* to know about the proper fill level. The manual says to fill the reservoir "to the bottom of the breather neck" which I interpreted to be to the base of the threaded portion, where the cap screws on. Perhaps it is just overfilled and Coventry is, indeed, sorting it out for me.

I have zero regrets about this purchase. I was describing the issues to my girl last night, probably with a very sad face, and when she asked, "So now what?" the answer I had ready was, "Why of course I'll fix it - it's an XJR!"

WaterDragon: Good to know there is some local support. My loss is definitely from the overflow - no question about it. I've just been having trouble understanding why it only fills the overflow but never empties it. Based on Gippsland's comment, though, it seems I'm overfilling it so it's no surprise it keeps emptying itself.

As I mentioned, last night I filled it to what I believed was the proper level (but it seems is actually too full), and thrashed it around for 20 miles. This morning, totally cold, the fluid level was right back where it was yesterday afternoon following my day's drive (about 70 miles). I did not add, just closed it back up and drove to work. Upon arrival (about 10 miles) there were a couple drips on the inner fender liner from the overflow bottle, but literally a couple drips, nothing like last night.

I'm just going to keep driving it. I'll check for drips, but I'm going to leave the system sealed until perhaps this weekend - maybe I'll find it's still at the same level, and everything is fine.

 

Look for a thread titled. Slow coolant leak, etc. therein a post says the problem is overfilling the bottle at the firewall

 

Are you referring to this thread:

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...eak-etc-85061/

I didn't see any discussion about the subject, but there is this comment:

So far (which admittedly means nothing ) "just below the neck" is about where my bottle ends up each time. The level is about 1/4" or so below the neck.

 

Are You SURE the two hoses at the top of the resevoir are not crossed? In other words, they should look crossed, the one to the engine side is supposed to go to the overflow, and the one on the fender side is supposed to go to the radiator.
I thougth I sw that addressed previously, but I don't see It in the thread!

 

"Why of course I'll fix it - it's an XJR!"
Had a the same problem and it was only because I was over filling it. It seeming unlikely you will be doing head gaskets any time soon. And what a great offer from Waterdragon. Keep us posted.

 

Yes, positive the hoses are installed correctly. In fact I just now removed the upper hose (to the overflow) and did a vacuum/pressure test (ie I sucked and blew on it) to verify it's connected to the overflow. I got bubbles and a mouthful of Dexcool. I replaced the o-rings as good measure, but I think those connections are solid.

That said, today was drip-free, so I think it's fair to say the previous dripping was a result of me overfilling the system. Sadly, however, the level in the reservoir is down slightly from this morning following about 30 miles of driving. Not good, but I am also not surprised... clearly there is some explanation for the original Low Coolant warning. I had no choice but to start dismantling things. That lead to some discoveries!

First, I gotta admit I am horrified and ashamed I missed these items when I originally looked at the car. These aren't new items, I just completely overlooked them.

What I've got: A RIVER of sludge in the valley. I guess that's one upside of Dexcool - it lets you know where it's been. I first spotted a little drop of sludge on a little junction at the back of the engine, then my eye caught a stream of the stuff running down the bellhousing, and I traced that back to the River Nile of Dexcool leavings running down the valley. It seems the leak may actually be originating from a hose on top of the intercooler, but I'm not familiar with what's going on under it to be sure.

So, I broke out my inspection camera and made a little recording - I'm hoping someone can make heads or tails of it. Key moments:

0:03 is the junction where the small leak is - I didn't spend much time there.
0:17 is the trail down the bellhousing
0:27 I start moving up the valley
1:02 I don't know what I'm looking at. If you're having trouble orienting yourself, the right side of the screen is up. I am trying to determine if this thing might also be leaking, or if it's just collecting goop from above
1:45 I am trying to get passed the thing I'm trying to identify
2:40 Sweet reverse out out the situation!
2:44 What is this? Are these parts supposed to be connected? (No idea what I'm looking at!)
2:55 Lowest visible point of evidence of the leak, before it disappears into the valley
3:19 What I believe to be the source of a VERY long term leak - coolant to the intercooler


Thanks for all the help!

 

Re 2:44 - Reconnected them. Must have been poorly connected if the inspection camera was enough to dislodge them! That has been remedied.