Did a bit more tonight....

Decided I should try to get some more waxoyl down the sill before I close the front end off.....not convinced about the waxoyl spray kit after reading some poor reviews on the gun supplied, so bought a tin of aerosol waxoyl to see how far it would spray with the plastic straw nozzle fitted - a bit more distance and direction I thought...

Seeing as the weather is a bit cold, I decided to heat the aerosol tin a little to thin down the waxoyl contents and hopefully increase the performance of the aerosol....

It works....in fact it works so well that the increased pressure shot the plastic straw like a ballistic projectile halfway down the inside of the sill, where it is now stuck with waxoyl - preventing further 'distance' waxing.....deep joy!

This needs a rethink....

So I decided to tackle the L/H chassis rail in order to be able to refit the subframe, releasing my ladder for other duties...

At this point I have confirmed that the human body has not yet evolved to the point where it is an efficient tool for cutting/welding operations - if it was, the earhole would not be the perfect shape to make a best effort to funnel any and all white hot metal particles directly to the eardrum.....in the style of a roulette wheel, I now sit with aural burns that match the ones on my forearms.....

Ear defenders from now on....

Happy days, pics to follow of my trials/tribulations!

 

One suggestion, Rich. Instead of using waxoyl you might consider to use fat based cavity sealing.

Wax based substances usually contain diluents. They evaporate over time which means that the wax becomes prone to cracking fissuration. Through these gaps in the protective coating water can get in touch with the metal again and rust revives. That's the main reason why wax based products perform poorly in the long run and get bad reviews.

Here in Germany we have a renowned specialist for cavity rust protection who developed a fat based rust protection. His name is Mike Sander. If you're interested you might have a look at www.mike-sander.de (English language version available).

Last December my Daimler got a cavity sealing with Mike Sander's "fat". If similar services or products are available in the UK too I unfortunately don't know.

 

What was the price for the treatment in Germany? They can also neutralize the existing rust?

 

I paid 600,- € for the treatment. Before the hot fat is applied loose rust and dirt is removed, typically by the use of compressed air.

The weakness of the fat injection method developed by Mike Sander is that over time it may not cover completely areas that are not yet affected by rust. They may prove too smooth for the fat to keep hold on. The strength of the method is that the fat is able to creep into every corner on rougher surfaces (like metal already affected by some rust) through capillary action.

Surfaces covered by the fat are sealed from further oxygen and water accession, thus stopping the rust from spreading further.

Due to the weakness and the strength of the Mike Sander method it may happen that small areas of metal may not be covered and rust starts to attack. But by capillary action the fat is able to lay itself over the newly attacked area, given that the surrounding temperature allows the fat to creep.

There's another specialist in Germany whose products combine the best of two worlds, that is the capability of wax to cover smooth surfaces and the ability of fat to creep into every corner.

It's TimeMax in Hamburg. Go for Products « TimeMax, Rostschutz, Korrosionsschutz, Oldtimer, Trockeneisstrahlen, Karosseriebau to learn more (don't worry, it's English ). The problem with TimeMax is, that unlike Mike Sanders, they do not sell their products to other workshops. So you have to bring your car to Hamburg and have to accept their price. Sander sells to everyone who is interested and offers trainings on how to apply his products correctly. So meanwhile there are workshops all over the republic who offer this treatment and you can compare prices.

The price of TimeMax is remarkably higher than a the price of a treatment with the Mike Sander method. However imho it's not exorbitantly high. It's around 1500,- € and people who let their car protect by TimeMax are very content about the result. The only real problem is that they offer their service in Hamburg only.

 

Thanks Ralf, I shall investigate if is available in the UK....

 

Hallo all,

Update coming soon...been a bit cold so progress slower than expected....however R/H side now completed with paint laid on, L/H side done less sill and footwell....some exciting moments trying to remove bushes from the wishbones.....getting there though :-)

 

I used a torch to burn the rubber out and a sawzall to cut through the bushings.

 

Sean, do you have a special recommendation for the Bilt Hamber's treatment? I seen a lot of products on their page but I don't know which one is appropiate for my car(11 years old XJ8, 8 years in Manchester area). If you had good results on the seashore, I am ready to try it.
Today I seen the first rust hole on my front fenders and I am ready to order some BH.

 

@ Flay - I used 4 cans of S50 - it's simply the best stuff to use.
Cavity Wax | Order Dynax S50 For High Protection Rust Proofing

 

Thank you Sean, I asked also BH and the answer come today, the S50 seems to be the recommended stuff, maybe someone is interested too:
"The most suitable treatment if you do not wish to strip off the corrosion
completely will be the Dynax products. S50 should be applied to all the
corroded areas and then over coated with Dynax UB. You will need to retreat
every 3 years as these coating s are soft - but using the aerosols makes a
very quick job. For longer repair you would need to strip the corrosion
treat with Hydrate 80 then top coat with epoxy mastic."

 

Hallo all, been a while...

Quick update:

Both sides now welded up nicely and totally undersealed to the n'th degree....if nothing else the front of my car will survive the next ice age!

Very slow progress due to work etc....in the meantime i have managed to sell my suzuki hayabusa powered seven, taking a Citroen Saxo in part exchange which I have subsequently swapped for a BMW 750il (5.4 V12)....missus loved that one (not).

So I have a BMW for sale, and a nearly completed Jag.

One observation for anyone doing some front suspension rebuilding: The coil springs come out easy enough, but re-fitting them is a ****!!!!!!

In fact, another observation: the lower balljoints are a ****!!!!!! to get out of the wishbones, but easy to refit.

My electrical loom (that I cut in half with enthusiastic metal removal) has successfully been repaired, battery connected and no smoke in wires....

One confession....the reason that I started this job was to get rid of the annoying clunk from the L/H side which I put down to the lower shock bush. On completing rebuild of the L/H side I realised that in my exitement the ONLY bush I forgot to replace was the lower shock bush. Cue shock removal...

Warmed up the engine, noticed that the plastic hose elbow that goes into the thermostat housing for the expansion tank pipe has broken....claiming that one as my fault....just don't know how it happened....

So I am getting there...slowly....anyone want to buy a BMW? :-)

Cheers,

Rich.

 

Hi Richard


Thanks for your story of your ordeal ;o)


I'm about to do the same repairs on my jag , do you recall the thickness of the steel layers you had to weld in at the front v-mount location ?
Any more trick&tips on that weld ?

Thank you !

 

Good luck! :-)

For the box section in the chassis at the v-mount you are looking at at least 2mm, I found that the good sill metal I cut out was perfect - the sills on these seem very substantial!

1.8mm for the rest of the metal is fine!

The only advice I can give is to be brave when cutting out to ensure you get back to very good metal! you can always put it back in....but ensure you brace the car correctly? One side at a time is also a good idea...

Cut out enough of the inner wing metal to get a good clear weld in the box section, then replace the inner wing metal as original....seemed to work anyway :-)

 

Thanks for the info.

Your pictures helped me alot to get used to the idea ...and did the "screaming" already ;o)



BTW , your warning about welding witout ear protection ... allmost killed me :-) Sorry for that.
I'm glad you got to this first ..

 

Glad you enjoyed the write ups, making people smile is what it's all about!! :-)

 

Any updates Rich?

 

Ah yes burning ears, I remember it well. Doing well over 100mph down the M1 motorway, flicked my cigarette end out of the window...............it came back in and stuck in my ear, burning end first ! It was fun for a few seconds.

 

Gentlemen,

The original post title seemed quite appropriate given the time of year, so I ran with it!!

Firstly, thank you all for maintaining a very interesting and informative forum.

A while ago I spent many hours tracing and rectifying a number of electrical & ABS glitches with the help of this forum, and recently decided to have the car MOT’d and enjoy some late autumn fun on the road. Unfortunately, the MOT tester wielding a bloody big screwdriver found he could easily push it through a number of places around to rear of the front wheel arch and along the sill into the inner sill void. In the testers opinion this rot was affecting the stability of car and promptly failed it.

The areas affected are similar but not as extensive as experienced by Nurquhar in his previous post (https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...igating-79653/) and believe I have enough confidence in tackling these repairs myself.

However, the reason for posting is a result of my findings having removed the plastic wheel arch liners and outer wings to enable better access to work on the above mentioned rot. During this exercise I was horrified to see what initially appeared to be a rather large ‘blister’ on the inner wing above and slightly to the right of the sub-frame v-mount. This time I got my own big screwdriver and hammer out and within a few minutes exposed a hole in the structure approx. 75mm wide x 50mm high as can be seen in the photos.

I’m of the opinion that my problem is nowhere near as extensive as Richard Thomas’ excellent post which I’ve crashed into here (sorry), but is anyone able to offer some advice on the following questions please?

1. Clearly this is (or was once upon a time) a significantly strengthened box section providing the structural support for the sub-frame. I’ve used an endoscope to inspect inside the box void and the rot for some reason has only attached one side. Would anyone agree that if I remove the shock absorber & brake line, cut back to good shiny metal then weld a plate over the hole constitute as a suitable repair. I have nothing but admiration for Richard’s most ambitious solution to his particular circumstance, but I’m hoping for a slightly less ambitious solution without stripping the front suspension.
2. The sheet metalwork at this point appears to be three separate layers. Can anyone concur with this? If so, any idea what thickness each layer is?
3. If the above is correct I can’t think of a way to weld three new plates over the hole. Any advice would be welcome.
4. If my thoughts above are shared, do you think a section of 2mm mild steel shim would suffice?

Incidentally, I can’t be 100% sure but I believe the cause of this problem is a very poor sheet metal joint between the inner wing and shock absorber top housing which allows water to simply run down the wheel arch and collect in the box section void with nowhere to go. I've tried to show this gap (approx. 2mm) in a photo but unfortunately it may not be very obvious. Admittedly, this doesn't explain why only one side of the box section has rotten!

Thank you in advance of any responses!

Regards

Chris

 

Hi Chris

it is impossible to fix your problem without taking the subframe off ..

I'm 100% sure the metal under the v-mounts are in bad condition also so
you have nothing to weld on to...


My '99 XJR looked exacly like yours and i'm in the process of fixing.


My box section was not rotted through al the way , but the part under the v-mounts was worse so i had to cut that away.

 

Nice work on your repairs. How many hours would you guess you have put in so far?