Please help! Restricted Performance, will not start!
#21
03-09-2014, 05:33 PM
Veteran Member
It would be useful to know where in the USA you are located. Really cold weather can freeze fuel lines (water) especially if pumping from bottom of tank. Get the codes read. Get a new battery, add Dry Gas and some GUMOUT best for old cars. Bet most problems will begin to clear with a little attention and warm weather.
#22
03-10-2014, 06:02 PM
Went to Walmart to get a new battery after getting another jump this morning.
They tested the battery and said it's good! What?!
Then stopped by Pep Boys for an OBDII readout:
P0335 - CKP Sensor A Circuit Malfunction
edit:
did some digging on the forums and it seems this sensor connector can and does break due to it's location under the car. I've hit a few potholes this winter so I very well may have smashed it or something! Or it's dirty? That would explain the battery drain.
Tomorrow off to the mechanic.
They tested the battery and said it's good! What?!
Then stopped by Pep Boys for an OBDII readout:
P0335 - CKP Sensor A Circuit Malfunction
edit:
did some digging on the forums and it seems this sensor connector can and does break due to it's location under the car. I've hit a few potholes this winter so I very well may have smashed it or something! Or it's dirty? That would explain the battery drain.
Tomorrow off to the mechanic.
Last edited by PoorJag; 03-10-2014 at 06:14 PM.
The following users liked this post:
RJ237 (03-10-2014)
#23
03-11-2014, 01:23 AM
Veteran Member
#24
03-11-2014, 04:51 AM
Senior Member
starting
The intermittent non starting is usually due to bad connections.
Check the voltage at the battery with engine running, should be 14.2 to 14.4V.
Check all the connections between battery and starter motor; there are about six of them. Physically check the earth leads from battery to chassis, and from motor to chassis; they are known to corrode/break.
Radiator fans not working could be the solenoids corroded.
If you have sludge in the cooling system, flush it out, replace with old style green stuff, remember to have heater on high when flushing.
Check the voltage at the battery with engine running, should be 14.2 to 14.4V.
Check all the connections between battery and starter motor; there are about six of them. Physically check the earth leads from battery to chassis, and from motor to chassis; they are known to corrode/break.
Radiator fans not working could be the solenoids corroded.
If you have sludge in the cooling system, flush it out, replace with old style green stuff, remember to have heater on high when flushing.
#25
03-11-2014, 04:35 PM
NO ERROR LIGHTS BUT:
Oil seemed like over max but I think thats just a streak on the dipstick... its consistant and dark at min mark and below . Coolant disappearing.
EDIT AFTER LETTING IT REST for 30 min after 30min drive (still hot): Oil at 'min' like before and dark (but not black dark). Googled coolant in oil and my oil nowhere near that light. It just looks light above the 'min' mark on dipstick where theres some oil but nowhere near at the concentration as at the min mark and below on the dipstick -- feel thats the true level.
Exhaust is 100% normal, NO smoke of any kind and exhaust isn't visible. At least it's that way at startup and idle just now.
So I either have a blown head gasket or intake gasket?
I paid $2900 for the car, is it basically scrap at this point? I've heard fixing this will run in that price range I paid for the car. Please someone give me some good news, I feel absolutely terrible right now. The knock sensor circuit malfunction code is maybe hinting at bad heads?
edit
Oil seemed like over max but I think thats just a streak on the dipstick... its consistant and dark at min mark and below . Coolant disappearing.
EDIT AFTER LETTING IT REST for 30 min after 30min drive (still hot): Oil at 'min' like before and dark (but not black dark). Googled coolant in oil and my oil nowhere near that light. It just looks light above the 'min' mark on dipstick where theres some oil but nowhere near at the concentration as at the min mark and below on the dipstick -- feel thats the true level.
Exhaust is 100% normal, NO smoke of any kind and exhaust isn't visible. At least it's that way at startup and idle just now.
So I either have a blown head gasket or intake gasket?
I paid $2900 for the car, is it basically scrap at this point? I've heard fixing this will run in that price range I paid for the car. Please someone give me some good news, I feel absolutely terrible right now. The knock sensor circuit malfunction code is maybe hinting at bad heads?
edit
Last edited by PoorJag; 03-11-2014 at 05:28 PM.
#26
03-11-2014, 05:39 PM
Veteran Member
You have the symptoms of a blown head gasket. If you buy a used engine and have someone install it you are looking at $3k. If you buy the parts and special tools, you can replace both head gaskets and mill the heads, and do the tensioners for $1500 if you do the labor, but I think you will need some help. On the other hand, once you do two head gaskets on an X-308, you will know something about car mechanics!
As to whether it is worth it, the condition of the rest of the car tells the tale.
Others on here will disagree, but I will say again, an X-308 IS NOT a car for someone who will not do major repairs themselves, if they need the car for transportation.
As to whether it is worth it, the condition of the rest of the car tells the tale.
Others on here will disagree, but I will say again, an X-308 IS NOT a car for someone who will not do major repairs themselves, if they need the car for transportation.
#27
03-11-2014, 06:04 PM
You have the symptoms of a blown head gasket. If you buy a used engine and have someone install it you are looking at $3k. If you buy the parts and special tools, you can replace both head gaskets and mill the heads, and do the tensioners for $1500 if you do the labor, but I think you will need some help. On the other hand, once you do two head gaskets on an X-308, you will know something about car mechanics!
As to whether it is worth it, the condition of the rest of the car tells the tale.
Others on here will disagree, but I will say again, an X-308 IS NOT a car for someone who will not do major repairs themselves, if they need the car for transportation.
As to whether it is worth it, the condition of the rest of the car tells the tale.
Others on here will disagree, but I will say again, an X-308 IS NOT a car for someone who will not do major repairs themselves, if they need the car for transportation.
I'm thinking it's a thermostat clog or something. The idle is ok and runs ok. Like I've said I had a coolant leak that predated the no start etc which may have very well caused overhead that blew gasket but I think maybe it's cooling system vs head gasket...no other head gasket signs other than overheat but that has been attributed to stuck thermostat on these forums. Exhaust is totally fine.
#28
03-11-2014, 06:34 PM
Veteran Member
Very possible the thermostat housing is leaking. Before you deal with that you need to resolve the head gasket issue. I have read that there is a test kit for exhaust gases in the coolant. Do a search or call NAPA or Autozone, etc. and find out. Also, add a quart of oil, although it would be better to not run the engine until you know what is going on.
If the heads appear to be ok, replace the thermostat housing with an aluminum one. Welsh Enterprises sells a good one that includes a new thermostat.
If the heads appear to be ok, replace the thermostat housing with an aluminum one. Welsh Enterprises sells a good one that includes a new thermostat.
#29
03-11-2014, 06:48 PM
Very possible the thermostat housing is leaking. Before you deal with that you need to resolve the head gasket issue. I have read that there is a test kit for exhaust gases in the coolant. Do a search or call NAPA or Autozone, etc. and find out. Also, add a quart of oil, although it would be better to not run the engine until you know what is going on.
If the heads appear to be ok, replace the thermostat housing with an aluminum one. Welsh Enterprises sells a good one that includes a new thermostat.
If the heads appear to be ok, replace the thermostat housing with an aluminum one. Welsh Enterprises sells a good one that includes a new thermostat.
Previous owner put in aluminum one, doubt its from Welsh though.
It has moisture all where the seals are on the thermostat housing, with coolant puddling up on the bottom of it a bit, leaking some onto the top of engine from there it seems.
There doesn't appear to be oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil. One side of the dipstick (side without measurement markers) has the streak on it, the side with measurement markings shows a very consistent level with no streak past the level.
I am FINALLY going to the mech that did the waterpump, hoses and thermostat housing tomorrow to look at it all and hopefully he can test for exhaust fumes.
The engine has to be opened up to verify the condition of the heads, right? (stupid question).
#30
03-11-2014, 08:52 PM
Veteran Member
I think we can help you, but let's try to stick with descriptions of the behavior- I am concerned that you are coloring your description with some assumptions you are making from either reading archives (a good plan in most regards!), or from what some others are telling you. for instance, where did you come up with a diagnosis of an intake manifold? No big deal, but you are bouncing from wall to wall! And you keep editing previous posts and changing the story! Like, is there vapor from the exhaust or not in the AM?
The hard start is a bad omen. Honestly, from your description, I cannot tell if it is cranking hard or not. Which is it, hard crank or hard start? Do you recognize the difference? The best way to check involves a clamp on DC ammeter which I doubt you have.
Forget the RP, it will not cause a no crank or a no start, although it can lead you to the problem. The coolant leak will cause it by the aforementioned knock sensor connectors.
Do you have a Digital Multimeter? With that and a helper with you, I can lead you through some pretty easy tests to figure out a cranking problem.
Do not confuse "head gasket" with "condition of the heads". The gasket is between the heads and the block. It can be checked as recommended by RJ237, or by a Cylinder Compression Test.
So, do you get a lot of exhaust vapor at startup? Compare your car to others in the same weather conditions.
Does is the car straining when you try to crank? Do the lights dim? Even when on a jump?
When it does crank and start, does it idle well? Does it run well? Without shaking?
Have you done a compression test? If not, do so.
BTW, the accurate way to check the oil level is to wait until the car has not driven for a while, remove the dipstick, wipe it with a clean cloth or paper towel, then re-insert it to bottom, then remove and read it.
The hard start is a bad omen. Honestly, from your description, I cannot tell if it is cranking hard or not. Which is it, hard crank or hard start? Do you recognize the difference? The best way to check involves a clamp on DC ammeter which I doubt you have.
Forget the RP, it will not cause a no crank or a no start, although it can lead you to the problem. The coolant leak will cause it by the aforementioned knock sensor connectors.
Do you have a Digital Multimeter? With that and a helper with you, I can lead you through some pretty easy tests to figure out a cranking problem.
Do not confuse "head gasket" with "condition of the heads". The gasket is between the heads and the block. It can be checked as recommended by RJ237, or by a Cylinder Compression Test.
So, do you get a lot of exhaust vapor at startup? Compare your car to others in the same weather conditions.
Does is the car straining when you try to crank? Do the lights dim? Even when on a jump?
When it does crank and start, does it idle well? Does it run well? Without shaking?
Have you done a compression test? If not, do so.
BTW, the accurate way to check the oil level is to wait until the car has not driven for a while, remove the dipstick, wipe it with a clean cloth or paper towel, then re-insert it to bottom, then remove and read it.
Last edited by sparkenzap; 03-11-2014 at 08:58 PM.
#31
03-11-2014, 09:43 PM
I think we can help you, but let's try to stick with descriptions of the behavior- I am concerned that you are coloring your description with some assumptions you are making from either reading archives (a good plan in most regards!), or from what some others are telling you. for instance, where did you come up with a diagnosis of an intake manifold? No big deal, but you are bouncing from wall to wall! And you keep editing previous posts and changing the story! Like, is there vapor from the exhaust or not in the AM?
The hard start is a bad omen. Honestly, from your description, I cannot tell if it is cranking hard or not. Which is it, hard crank or hard start? Do you recognize the difference? The best way to check involves a clamp on DC ammeter which I doubt you have.
Forget the RP, it will not cause a no crank or a no start, although it can lead you to the problem. The coolant leak will cause it by the aforementioned knock sensor connectors.
Do you have a Digital Multimeter? With that and a helper with you, I can lead you through some pretty easy tests to figure out a cranking problem.
Do not confuse "head gasket" with "condition of the heads". The gasket is between the heads and the block. It can be checked as recommended by RJ237, or by a Cylinder Compression Test.
So, do you get a lot of exhaust vapor at startup? Compare your car to others in the same weather conditions.
Does is the car straining when you try to crank? Do the lights dim? Even when on a jump?
When it does crank and start, does it idle well? Does it run well? Without shaking?
Have you done a compression test? If not, do so.
BTW, the accurate way to check the oil level is to wait until the car has not driven for a while, remove the dipstick, wipe it with a clean cloth or paper towel, then re-insert it to bottom, then remove and read it.
The hard start is a bad omen. Honestly, from your description, I cannot tell if it is cranking hard or not. Which is it, hard crank or hard start? Do you recognize the difference? The best way to check involves a clamp on DC ammeter which I doubt you have.
Forget the RP, it will not cause a no crank or a no start, although it can lead you to the problem. The coolant leak will cause it by the aforementioned knock sensor connectors.
Do you have a Digital Multimeter? With that and a helper with you, I can lead you through some pretty easy tests to figure out a cranking problem.
Do not confuse "head gasket" with "condition of the heads". The gasket is between the heads and the block. It can be checked as recommended by RJ237, or by a Cylinder Compression Test.
So, do you get a lot of exhaust vapor at startup? Compare your car to others in the same weather conditions.
Does is the car straining when you try to crank? Do the lights dim? Even when on a jump?
When it does crank and start, does it idle well? Does it run well? Without shaking?
Have you done a compression test? If not, do so.
BTW, the accurate way to check the oil level is to wait until the car has not driven for a while, remove the dipstick, wipe it with a clean cloth or paper towel, then re-insert it to bottom, then remove and read it.
The first time it died, it was very hard to get it to turn over and start on the jump.
Only on this start was there any vapor out of the exhaust, lasting only for 1 or 2 seconds, ie, it was cleared out soon as it started.
The second time, ie, the next day (in the AM after a cold night), fired up right away on the jump.
I was expecting to need another jump today, but it fired right up, and started ok subsequently 2 more times.
I will see if it starts up without a problem tomorrow morning.
There was no smoke or vapor at startup or idle at all any time after the very first jump.
I wiped the dipstick down earlier and didn't get any streaking -- got a clear read. Will check tomorrow before I start it up.
#32
03-12-2014, 04:08 AM
Veteran Member
OK, then, I guess I fell for your panic too! If the cars cranks, strts and runs, then drive it. Have the batery checked at AutoZone. Clean the battery terminals and re-install it, then find the archives for "false bulkhead" connectors and clean and tighten them (with the battery leads discnnected). If you decide not to do the battery check and connections, then do a "hard boot". (I say, "if you decide not to", since the battery operations will do the boot anyway!)
If it continues to run good, then figure out where the aluminum thermostat tower is leaking,buy a new thermostat, install it and keep watching. Sorting the fuel mileage will come later.
So, do you have tools and intend to workon this car yourself, or do you plan to find a good indie Jag specialist?
If it continues to run good, then figure out where the aluminum thermostat tower is leaking,buy a new thermostat, install it and keep watching. Sorting the fuel mileage will come later.
So, do you have tools and intend to workon this car yourself, or do you plan to find a good indie Jag specialist?
#33
03-12-2014, 04:39 AM
Senior Member
head gasket
You might not have a blown head gasket.
Does the car miss, ie is it running on 7 cylinders.
Does the motor overheat, temp gauge is useless, so need some other way to read temperature.
As previous posters have pointed out, get an exhaust gas check on your coolant.
Let us know what happens
Does the car miss, ie is it running on 7 cylinders.
Does the motor overheat, temp gauge is useless, so need some other way to read temperature.
As previous posters have pointed out, get an exhaust gas check on your coolant.
Let us know what happens
#34
03-12-2014, 07:09 AM
Veteran Member
You know, I really hate to make a post that sounds like I am comng down on you, especially when you seem to be worrying a lot about your car BUT you seem to be confused. We really are trying to help you, but you seem to be on your own agenda.
1) Coolant on the thermostat tower IS NOT an indication of a "plugged" thermostat.
2) Coolant layig on top of the engine IS NOT an indication of a bad intake manifold or gasket
3) It is UNLIKELY that coolant on top of an engine is from a blown head gasket, UNLESS there ar eother signs, (like hydrolock).
Why not get your battery checked, like has been suggsted by several of us over the last 5 days????
Then, use a flashlight and your eyes, figure out where the coolant is coming from! Then fix your coolant leak, find the next little sniggly, fix it and join the happy, happy, happy Jag owner community!!!
OR
Just keep worrying about the worst possible outcome and keep randomly considering what to do with no cohesive troubleshooting and diagnostic plan!
Just my $.02
1) Coolant on the thermostat tower IS NOT an indication of a "plugged" thermostat.
2) Coolant layig on top of the engine IS NOT an indication of a bad intake manifold or gasket
3) It is UNLIKELY that coolant on top of an engine is from a blown head gasket, UNLESS there ar eother signs, (like hydrolock).
Why not get your battery checked, like has been suggsted by several of us over the last 5 days????
Then, use a flashlight and your eyes, figure out where the coolant is coming from! Then fix your coolant leak, find the next little sniggly, fix it and join the happy, happy, happy Jag owner community!!!
OR
Just keep worrying about the worst possible outcome and keep randomly considering what to do with no cohesive troubleshooting and diagnostic plan!
Just my $.02
Last edited by sparkenzap; 03-12-2014 at 07:13 AM.
#35
03-12-2014, 08:22 AM
Veteran Member
If the coolant is puddling where you say it is, need to check for dripping from thermostat housing, tower, crossover pipes (easy 5/16" socket fixes, except for rear two bolts of tower; check hoses, none of these, then it is the water pump (just replaced mine for same problem).
The battery, grounds, and starting issues should be gone by now if you have done what SPARKINZAP suggested.
I don't believe you have a blown head gasket.
It would still be nice to know where in the USA you live; in the winter, folks in Wisconsin have different issues than those in Alabama!https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/i...on_captain.gif
The battery, grounds, and starting issues should be gone by now if you have done what SPARKINZAP suggested.
I don't believe you have a blown head gasket.
It would still be nice to know where in the USA you live; in the winter, folks in Wisconsin have different issues than those in Alabama!https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/i...on_captain.gif
#36
03-12-2014, 08:23 AM
Veteran Member
#37
03-12-2014, 12:55 PM
Veteran Member
First things first- figure out what you want to resolve first, THEN move on to the next issue. It is difficult over the interwebs to isolate problems when they are thrown out in bulk...
Let's start at the engine coolant issue- Get a coolant pressure tester- then you can put pressure in the system when it is cold, allowing you to see EXACTLY where the drips are coming from.
BUY A NEW BATTERY. This is the first thing I do when I buy a used car, it is needed and money well spent.
Let's start at the engine coolant issue- Get a coolant pressure tester- then you can put pressure in the system when it is cold, allowing you to see EXACTLY where the drips are coming from.
BUY A NEW BATTERY. This is the first thing I do when I buy a used car, it is needed and money well spent.
#38
03-12-2014, 01:44 PM
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Crossroads of America
Posts: 19,500
Received 12,942 Likes
on
6,466 Posts
Before having a new battery installed, I would recommend that you have the charging system checked. No sense in damaging a new battery if the alternator is underperforming or there is resistance in the battery power connections that is reducing the alternator's ability to keep the battery properly charged.
I don't know if the X308 has any ground studs or connections that may have been affected by the coolant leak, but it would be worth cleaning all ground connections you can find in the engine compartment. Others can tell you where to look.
Cheers,
Don
#39
03-12-2014, 02:18 PM
Veteran Member
PoorJag might be reluctant to buy a battery since he is afraid he might have a terminal engine illness, but the parts guy (AutoZone, Advance etc) can all test a battery fairly accurately to determine it's state of charge and what its high load current capacity is.
And, as we all know, but he is reluctant to believe, the battery condition is a primary concern for both his random codes and his intermittent "no start" which seems like it might be a "no crank", although he will not acknowledge the difference!
And, as we all know, but he is reluctant to believe, the battery condition is a primary concern for both his random codes and his intermittent "no start" which seems like it might be a "no crank", although he will not acknowledge the difference!
