Problems with Jag Owners, Can't figure it out!
#21
10-19-2014, 10:20 AM
It is also one of the most friendly and informative automotive forums on the web. It serves Jag owners well and if you find us lacking, then we thank you for your observations and will try to do a better job of living up to your expectations.
That being said, I would say that your remarks are presumptive at best.
As my Mom used to say, "If you don't have anything nice to say, you shouldn't say anything at all...."
Vector
#22
10-19-2014, 11:04 AM
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I think this is an interesting thread.
I'll add a few more random rambles.
For some the money might indeed be a consideration depending on driving distance, meals, possible over-night stay. This prevents me from attending as many shows as I did a few years ago, that's for sure. I went from 7-8 shows/year to 1 or 2/year.
Also, for me at least....but perhaps others....there's a bit of car show burn out. I've been going to car shows for decades and still do. But, I'll be honest, I just don't get as enthused as I used to.
In my little town there are several community/local multi-make cars shows each year. Those can be fun but unfortunately the car hobby still has plenty of people who like to put other cars down. The near constant stream of snide remarks about Jags gets a bit old. You can let it roll off your back the first 50 or 75 times or so but after that it starts getting annoying.
Doubly annoying if, like me, you go out of your way to find something nice to say about *everyone else's* car.
Ramble switch 'off' for the moment
Cheers
DD
#23
10-19-2014, 11:17 AM
I think this is an interesting thread.
I'll add a few more random rambles.
For some the money might indeed be a consideration depending on driving distance, meals, possible over-night stay. This prevents me from attending as many shows as I did a few years ago, that's for sure. I went from 7-8 shows/year to 1 or 2/year.
Also, for me at least....but perhaps others....there's a bit of car show burn out. I've been going to car shows for decades and still do. But, I'll be honest, I just don't get as enthused as I used to.
In my little town there are several community/local multi-make cars shows each year. Those can be fun but unfortunately the car hobby still has plenty of people who like to put other cars down. The near constant stream of snide remarks about Jags gets a bit old. You can let it roll off your back the first 50 or 75 times or so but after that it starts getting annoying.
Doubly annoying if, like me, you go out of your way to find something nice to say about *everyone else's* car.
Ramble switch 'off' for the moment
Cheers
DD
I'll add a few more random rambles.
For some the money might indeed be a consideration depending on driving distance, meals, possible over-night stay. This prevents me from attending as many shows as I did a few years ago, that's for sure. I went from 7-8 shows/year to 1 or 2/year.
Also, for me at least....but perhaps others....there's a bit of car show burn out. I've been going to car shows for decades and still do. But, I'll be honest, I just don't get as enthused as I used to.
In my little town there are several community/local multi-make cars shows each year. Those can be fun but unfortunately the car hobby still has plenty of people who like to put other cars down. The near constant stream of snide remarks about Jags gets a bit old. You can let it roll off your back the first 50 or 75 times or so but after that it starts getting annoying.
Doubly annoying if, like me, you go out of your way to find something nice to say about *everyone else's* car.
Ramble switch 'off' for the moment
Cheers
DD
#24
10-19-2014, 11:18 AM
But I suggest don't let it stop anyone from going to a popular vote or judged show. I have found that if you go to enough car shows, you will begin to see that the awards don't always go to the cars in the best condition anyway. You can have rust all the way up to the headlights and still get an award if you go often enough that the regulars get to know and like you (kinda like politics). Even if you've got a mint condition car that's the best one there, you might not get an award. Just go and enjoy sharing ideas with like-minded people. I always learn something useful, some restoration or repair tip that saves me more than the entry fee.
#25
10-19-2014, 11:23 AM
This forum is unique in that it is extremely courteous to newcomers. In that spirit, welcome to the forums.
It is also one of the most friendly and informative automotive forums on the web. It serves Jag owners well and if you find us lacking, then we thank you for your observations and will try to do a better job of living up to your expectations.
That being said, I would say that your remarks are presumptive at best.
As my Mom used to say, "If you don't have anything nice to say, you shouldn't say anything at all...."
Vector
It is also one of the most friendly and informative automotive forums on the web. It serves Jag owners well and if you find us lacking, then we thank you for your observations and will try to do a better job of living up to your expectations.
That being said, I would say that your remarks are presumptive at best.
As my Mom used to say, "If you don't have anything nice to say, you shouldn't say anything at all...."
Vector
#26
10-19-2014, 11:25 AM
I don't think it was a jab at x308 owners. I hear this frequently from owners of all sorts of cars other than Jaguars when I invite them to a local monthly show. "Oh, but mine needs <paint, upholstery, etc.>" That's why I prefer the casual, come and go type events like Cars and Coffee rather than those that end with trophy presentations. The most interesting cars are usually the ones that need some work and the most interesting people are the ones who struggle to do all the work themselves rather than just writing checks to professionals for a perfect car.
But I suggest don't let it stop anyone from going to a popular vote or judged show. I have found that if you go to enough car shows, you will begin to see that the awards don't always go to the cars in the best condition anyway. You can have rust all the way up to the headlights and still get an award if you go often enough that the regulars get to know and like you (kinda like politics). Even if you've got a mint condition car that's the best one there, you might not get an award. Just go and enjoy sharing ideas with like-minded people. I always learn something useful, some restoration or repair tip that saves me more than the entry fee.
But I suggest don't let it stop anyone from going to a popular vote or judged show. I have found that if you go to enough car shows, you will begin to see that the awards don't always go to the cars in the best condition anyway. You can have rust all the way up to the headlights and still get an award if you go often enough that the regulars get to know and like you (kinda like politics). Even if you've got a mint condition car that's the best one there, you might not get an award. Just go and enjoy sharing ideas with like-minded people. I always learn something useful, some restoration or repair tip that saves me more than the entry fee.
#27
10-19-2014, 12:56 PM
Going to a car show as a spectator or the local "cars and coffee" is a bit different then -- entering a particular car in a show.
The fun thing about "cars and coffee" -- you get up early,uncover the car, fluff it up ...pray it starts ..smell the gas ..and off you go .. back in a couple of hours. I'm really the only one in the house that enjoys the whole old car thing. I wish I still had my dads 70's XJC ... good Jaguar for that ...... I'm searching for a near perfect XJS ... also a good Jaguar for C and C.
The XJR .. is when I don't have the time and just want to talk .... I still drive my 02 a few times a week ... so it not the same.
The fun thing about "cars and coffee" -- you get up early,uncover the car, fluff it up ...pray it starts ..smell the gas ..and off you go .. back in a couple of hours. I'm really the only one in the house that enjoys the whole old car thing. I wish I still had my dads 70's XJC ... good Jaguar for that ...... I'm searching for a near perfect XJS ... also a good Jaguar for C and C.
The XJR .. is when I don't have the time and just want to talk .... I still drive my 02 a few times a week ... so it not the same.
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Garyres (10-19-2014)
#28
10-20-2014, 07:04 AM
Senior Member
Last week I drove to HD for some hardware in my black 2001 XJR .It was early in the morning and as I exited the store the early morning light hit the Jag and I was struck by how graceful its lines were. Looking around the parking lot at other vehicles the styling of the XJR stood out even more . So distinctive and refined . Truly a classy lady.
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Garyres (10-20-2014)
#29
10-20-2014, 09:17 AM
Guys. For some reason I offended some people on this site. I won't post anymore unless its a technical issue. My bubble has been bursted. I was excited about being on here. But, not anymore. I tried to pump life into this. But people want the status quo. I will now just be a lurker as I need to investigate certain topics (excellent site for that). Please feel free to PM me and I will let you know when we have "free" meets and get togethers. Very relaxed atmosphere. Usually Sunday mornings. And with weather permitting. And of course all Jag owners are welcome!
#30
10-20-2014, 10:56 AM
Being someone who modifies his Jags I have found the forum has changed not just in XJs but even more so in the XK section, I was a regular, everyday, there was banter, talk about what you wanted to do to your ride........ Now its more like "my brakes are shot how do I change them"........ I'm sorry to say It but it does get a bit old... I never frequented the UK Jag Forum just for this reason... I am more than happy to help people out if they ask me directly via PM, I answered a couple of questions today but looking through the posts just gets me down......... I have even started up my own Facebook group called Modified Jaguar (all models welcome) just to perhaps find like minded people and I have.... which is good...... But still... I miss some of the regulars who no longer participate in the forum...... Personally I would think it was those guys who would of been more likely to go to shows...
Just my thoughts, I could be wrong but it is how I see things going....
Just my thoughts, I could be wrong but it is how I see things going....
#31
10-20-2014, 03:42 PM
I agree 100%. If you think about it, XKR and XJR owners like me and yourself, are car guys.
The people who bought these cars wanted sports cars or an alternative to the AMG's and the BMW "M". But, I do see "some" interest here.
I think its the older members who like to leave things alone. It reminds me of a place that I bought in Florida on the water and it had older people living there. When I started gutting the place the older people did not want me to do anything and tried to stop me.
They like the status quo. They want things to stay the same. But the only thing that stays the same is "change".
If this forum doesn't encourage guys like us, then it will become strictly a technical forum. And that is fine. I tried to light a fire here, but was discouraged.
The truth is, that is why other brands did better than Jaguar all those years. They have a huge following. Most kids don't even know what an XKR is. But they know the SL63 AMG, or the M6. Those brands make it attractive to be part of something.
The Porsche dealer by me has a BBQ in the summer? 200 cars show up. Bentley has a party for the unveiling of a new model, and 300 people show up. And Jaguar has a used car sale..
It is what it is. I'm done.
What's your facebook page?
The people who bought these cars wanted sports cars or an alternative to the AMG's and the BMW "M". But, I do see "some" interest here.
I think its the older members who like to leave things alone. It reminds me of a place that I bought in Florida on the water and it had older people living there. When I started gutting the place the older people did not want me to do anything and tried to stop me.
They like the status quo. They want things to stay the same. But the only thing that stays the same is "change".
If this forum doesn't encourage guys like us, then it will become strictly a technical forum. And that is fine. I tried to light a fire here, but was discouraged.
The truth is, that is why other brands did better than Jaguar all those years. They have a huge following. Most kids don't even know what an XKR is. But they know the SL63 AMG, or the M6. Those brands make it attractive to be part of something.
The Porsche dealer by me has a BBQ in the summer? 200 cars show up. Bentley has a party for the unveiling of a new model, and 300 people show up. And Jaguar has a used car sale..
It is what it is. I'm done.
What's your facebook page?
Last edited by JimC64; 10-21-2014 at 05:52 PM. Reason: please add line breaks!!
#32
10-20-2014, 04:20 PM
#33
10-20-2014, 05:28 PM
Veteran member
Garyres:
I feel bad that you have given up so quickly, particularly given that you are a relatively new subscriber to the forum. I re-read the posts and only see one that was a bit negative; and if feelings have been hurt, accept at least my apology.
As I alluded to earlier, I'm more of a 'car guy'/enthusiast than a mechanic; so I also get lost in the volume of technical posts. But while I most certainly appreciate the more fraternal posts and try to engage in them as much as I can (this post being exhibit A), I also recognize that if it weren't for the technical ones, few of us would have the cars to post about!
Also, to XKRacer's point, since we logged on in 2010, the forum has grown exponentially; and while my '98 X308 is certainly a "modern" car, it's rapidly approaching the two decade mark. My hunch is that it's taking a lot more technical posts to keep our rigs on the road. However, I still think there is room for non-technical ones. I've found the "Off Topic" category to be a good place to go for such things around here.
Finally, back to the point about car shows… I haven't seen this yet brought up (or, sorry if it has and I overlooked it!), but I wonder if the lack of interest in car shows is partly due to the place of technology and the internet in our global society. People are turning to Facebook, forums such as this, and other internet based communities instead of older institutions. While it has distinct benefits (Jaguar forums such as this!), it is taking a toll on the face-to-face interactions folks have. I see the impact of this at church, in the service clubs I'm a part of, and, yes, in the car-club world. If I'm honest, this forum probably is my car club, for better or for worse - though for me, it has been for the better. I regularly see whole tables of high schoolers at McDonalds or wherever, each with a device in their hand, and having absolutely no interaction with each other whatever. (Perhaps they are 'talking' to each other, I don't know.) Man is it weird.
But there I go talking like a fuddy-duddy Gen Xer again…
Far from being offensive, I think you've generated a good conversation that has attracted much interest. Hope to see you around.
Cheers,
Scott
I feel bad that you have given up so quickly, particularly given that you are a relatively new subscriber to the forum. I re-read the posts and only see one that was a bit negative; and if feelings have been hurt, accept at least my apology.
As I alluded to earlier, I'm more of a 'car guy'/enthusiast than a mechanic; so I also get lost in the volume of technical posts. But while I most certainly appreciate the more fraternal posts and try to engage in them as much as I can (this post being exhibit A), I also recognize that if it weren't for the technical ones, few of us would have the cars to post about!
Also, to XKRacer's point, since we logged on in 2010, the forum has grown exponentially; and while my '98 X308 is certainly a "modern" car, it's rapidly approaching the two decade mark. My hunch is that it's taking a lot more technical posts to keep our rigs on the road. However, I still think there is room for non-technical ones. I've found the "Off Topic" category to be a good place to go for such things around here.
Finally, back to the point about car shows… I haven't seen this yet brought up (or, sorry if it has and I overlooked it!), but I wonder if the lack of interest in car shows is partly due to the place of technology and the internet in our global society. People are turning to Facebook, forums such as this, and other internet based communities instead of older institutions. While it has distinct benefits (Jaguar forums such as this!), it is taking a toll on the face-to-face interactions folks have. I see the impact of this at church, in the service clubs I'm a part of, and, yes, in the car-club world. If I'm honest, this forum probably is my car club, for better or for worse - though for me, it has been for the better. I regularly see whole tables of high schoolers at McDonalds or wherever, each with a device in their hand, and having absolutely no interaction with each other whatever. (Perhaps they are 'talking' to each other, I don't know.) Man is it weird.
But there I go talking like a fuddy-duddy Gen Xer again…
Far from being offensive, I think you've generated a good conversation that has attracted much interest. Hope to see you around.
Cheers,
Scott
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Garyres (10-21-2014)
#34
10-20-2014, 06:12 PM
When I was a kid growing up in NYC. The Jaguar owners in the building wanted the car ready and waiting --- and clean when they came out. The guys with the German stuff knew what made it tick. My mother used to drive Peugeots and Citroens .. not sure what they thought of her.
My point is that Jaguar never really attracted a technical buyer -- and years ago no Brit would buy a German car .. and the reverse was true. Lots of people would not own a german car back then.
My point is that Jaguar never really attracted a technical buyer -- and years ago no Brit would buy a German car .. and the reverse was true. Lots of people would not own a german car back then.
#35
10-20-2014, 06:37 PM
Senior Member
You can always get involved with the jag clubs of north america. My Jags are daily transportation and the XJR is a tow vehicle so aside from our local Jcna I rarely take them to shows. I subscribe to the "dive it don't hide it school". To each his own and I'm sure as they age a bit more you;ll see more hobby x308s.
#36
10-20-2014, 06:54 PM
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Guys. For some reason I offended some people on this site. I won't post anymore unless its a technical issue. My bubble has been bursted. I was excited about being on here. But, not anymore. I tried to pump life into this. But people want the status quo. I will now just be a lurker as I need to investigate certain topics (excellent site for that). Please feel free to PM me and I will let you know when we have "free" meets and get togethers. Very relaxed atmosphere. Usually Sunday mornings. And with weather permitting. And of course all Jag owners are welcome!
I agree 100%. If you think about it, XKR and XJR owners like me and yourself, are car guys. The people who bought these cars wanted sports cars or an alternative to the AMG's and the BMW "M". But, I do see "some" interest here. I think its the older members who like to leave things alone. It reminds me of a place that I bought in Florida on the water and it had older people living there. When I started gutting the place the older people did not want me to do anything and tried to stop me. They like the status quo. They want things to stay the same. But the only thing that stays the same is "change". If this forum doesn't encourage guys like us, then it will become strictly a technical forum. And that is fine. I tried to light a fire here, but was discouraged. The truth is, that is why other brands did better than Jaguar all those years. They have a huge following. Most kids don't even know what an XKR is. But they know the SL63 AMG, or the M6. Those brands make it attractive to be part of something. The Porsche dealer by me has a BBQ in the summer? 200 cars show up. Bentley has a party for the unveiling of a new model, and 300 people show up. And Jaguar has a used car sale.. It is what it is. I'm done. What's your facebook page?
In reply to your negative comments above, again.....
37 posts over 4 months and you clearly know all you need to know about this site, I think not.
"Gary, you're being really harsh, maybe overreacting a little?
There's plenty of life in this forum, for all to see, except you it seems?
Yes, we like to discuss repairs / mods / upgrades etc, thats a major part of why the forum's here in the first place.
There are meets happening as we speak, last few weekends and over the coming weekends too. We have 3 forum banners that can be had in attendance for signing currently for the UK, US / Canada and Australia too.
It just seems not so much in your vicinity, but perhaps that will change?
The meet I had in the UK some time ago, was planned around 2 months in advance, I posted literally dozens of times about it, sent hundreds of pm's / emails and IMO was a great success with around 30 members / cars in attendance.
SteveSheldon did something similar and had a similar turnout after many many weeks, pm's & emails etc
There's no point in getting all heat up about it because you made several posts at short notice and nothing came from it, then saying thats it, I won't try anymore and meets won't happen, thats real effort!.
Meet events will happen moving forward, maybe even in your area, maybe a little forward notice and planning may help?
If you or any others decide to promote an event I'm more than happy to do a bulk mail to members in a certain region to help."
Jim
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Garyres (10-21-2014)
#37
10-20-2014, 07:39 PM
We do try to get together around here from time to time.
From the past few weeks:
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/u...t-pics-129204/
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/u...7-pics-128561/
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/u...w-info-127710/
Vector
From the past few weeks:
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/u...t-pics-129204/
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/u...7-pics-128561/
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/u...w-info-127710/
Vector
#38
10-20-2014, 07:44 PM
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Vector (10-20-2014)
#39
10-20-2014, 09:40 PM
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I think the blame there goes a bit deeper than lack of participation at local car shows.
Refer back to my earlier posting about the market Jaguar went after for 20+ years! Non-exciting cars marketed to old people. Hate to say it so bluntly but, really, that's pretty much the sum and substance of it.
Then, still missing the boat somewhat, when they finally DID have a little something to brag about again, Jaguar wayyyyy under-promoted the "R" series cars for the first few years.
The STR got the attention of the youthful enthusiasts as did the X-type....and now that Jaguar has 500+ horsepower models....and advertsing with requisite rear wheel smoking....some of the old flames are bound to be rekindled.
Cheers
DD
Refer back to my earlier posting about the market Jaguar went after for 20+ years! Non-exciting cars marketed to old people. Hate to say it so bluntly but, really, that's pretty much the sum and substance of it.
Then, still missing the boat somewhat, when they finally DID have a little something to brag about again, Jaguar wayyyyy under-promoted the "R" series cars for the first few years.
The STR got the attention of the youthful enthusiasts as did the X-type....and now that Jaguar has 500+ horsepower models....and advertsing with requisite rear wheel smoking....some of the old flames are bound to be rekindled.
Cheers
DD
#40
10-20-2014, 11:13 PM
Garyres,
I can't remember the last time I perused the NY section for I noticed nothing came together back in the day when I wanted to meet Jag owners before taking the plunge into Jaguar ownership. Id love to check out the car spots on Long Island and frankly just never knew where to go and when. I attend a small local gathering here in Brooklyn at Ceasars Bay on Friday afternoons and evenings where my XJR gets its fair share of respect, but is often the only European car there. So while many do take to the forums with diagnostic/ repair intentions, there are those of us who also can appreciate the car outside its mechanical quarrels and are excited about meet up and having out, I know because I am one of them!
I can't remember the last time I perused the NY section for I noticed nothing came together back in the day when I wanted to meet Jag owners before taking the plunge into Jaguar ownership. Id love to check out the car spots on Long Island and frankly just never knew where to go and when. I attend a small local gathering here in Brooklyn at Ceasars Bay on Friday afternoons and evenings where my XJR gets its fair share of respect, but is often the only European car there. So while many do take to the forums with diagnostic/ repair intentions, there are those of us who also can appreciate the car outside its mechanical quarrels and are excited about meet up and having out, I know because I am one of them!