I started tapping at some rusty coloured underseal just inboard of the bottom seam of the sils just behind the front wheels. I nearly choked on the rusty rubbish that fall out of the hole that just opened up.



Strangly the outer sils look near perfect, as far as I can tell they have rotted down the inner sil / floor pan joint.

Any advice on how to tackle this one ?

Also how do the treadplates come off ? Not wanting to destroy them I tried a bit of gentle prising with a screw driver but they just seam to want to spring back down. Are there some hidden fixings ?

 

I´m sorry to tell you this but its gonna be very expensive to fix all the rust on a 1998-1999 car in countrys who put salt on the road wintertime.. I had my done and it costed 35600:- Swedish sek... (Now it will Never rust).
If you want to I can put up some pictures on the work done.

 

Ouch! I hope the welding experts are reading this and can offer advice.

The parts manual diagram shows how the treadplates are fixed:



The insert (item 1) is glued down and easily damaged. Some report using a thin plastic spatula and others have used fishing line to free the adhesive after removing the end caps.

Graham

 

A picture is worth a thousand words !

Its depressing to have discovered this as I thought I was getting near to getting the car straight having already done these jobs :

a) New rear shocks.
b) New front brake calipers, hoses and pipes + fluid change
c) Front lower wishbone bush.
d) Corroded chassis leg near engine mount.
e) POR-15 treatment to inner wings and wheel arches.
f) POR-15 treatment to front roll bar + new drop links.

Having come thus far I might as well carry on otherwise I will loose all my recent investment, I am not sure if it puts me past the point no return. All the body panels from the outer sils upward are fine on the car. Even the bottom of the doors. Which were signs of trouble on my Series III and XJS v12's previously.

It looks like I could be about to become all to familar with my MiG !!

Are there any sectional diagrams of the XJ8 sils anywhere ? From looking into the hole thats just opened up there appears to be three elements that join at the bottom seam, ie inner sil, outer sil and internal sil. Is this correct ?

 

I see near perfect shape '99's on Craigslist every week that have "1" thing wrong with them, often the trans, that I could get for a max $900, more like $500 or even free.

If I were going to keep my '99 I have come to the conclusion that the only economical way of doing it would be to buy one or two extra cars... way cheaper than 1 trip to the dealer.

Don't kid yourself that there aren't numerous other undiscovered rust areas as bad as what you've already found.

Have you removed the long plastic strip in front of the windshield? My "no rust" '99 had two near baseball size holes there. The design is beyond horrible.

That's my call - drive as is and buy another rust free one for $500. They are around, garaged and with timing chains that skipped two teeth.

 

To actually repair extensive body rot is phenomenally expensive, and is only worth it for exceedingly rare cars. There are still lots of XJ8s out there. A sound body is worth it, even if the engine needs a lot of work.

 

Have a look here for body panel diagrams,
Genuine Jaguar Parts and Jaguar Accessories for Classic Jaguars
it looks like outer/inner and aperture panels, all spot welded in a sandwich.

 

Hi,
I have had my 3.2 XJ8 year 2000 about 12 months now and it's the best car I've ever had, however it is an extremely complicated car. Like you I have spent more than I wanted to fixing this that and the other and now feel I have to keep it in order to get my money's worth.

Some say I'm mad, but in order to avoid rust problems, I spend as much time underneath the car brushing old motor oil into all it's private parts as I do driving it. In your case it's a bit late I'm afraid, unless you can do it yourself it's going to be expensive.

I have just taken my tread plates off and used an old chisle to gently pry up the Jaguar insert which is held by double sided tape. There are 3 screws holding the front plate but for some reason best known only by Jaguar there are 5 screws holding the rear plate on.

Hope you get it sorted.

 

Yes, I have alreay looked at that, it was pretty good . I just rubbed some waxoil around and into the joints with the intention of returning with some POR-15 treatment later after the higher priority work. It seems to be terrificaly tenacious paint, the wife can't understand why the paint spots on my skin are still there three days later. "Did you not have a shower ?" "Yes, three with a scotch pad !"

It could be a bit of work doing the body rot but old Jags are soemthing of an occupation. When my V12 XJS lost two of the back pots I ended up spending 6months completly stripping it all the way down to getting the all linears out so I clean out all the crud from the inside of the block. I did get it rebuilt/refurbed, back in the car and running. I feel I am better off with the devil I know rather than looking round another X308 body project. If I fix mine I know its good, if I buy another it may also have "hidden" surprises.

I tried getting the tread plates off with fishing line. It look like it could work but I was'nt sure if I would run out fishing line or patience first. I got one off intact using a large chefs knife and a heat gun. I started at one end, having taken the plastic end plates off, with the knife just gently sawing under it whilst getting it hot with heat gun just ahead of the knife. It took 5-10 minutes to work along but it pays not to force the knife too much and let heat weaken the sponge foam and glue. Don't get it too hot as you don't want to damage the paint. My heat gun had an adjustable heat setting.

I am going to try to get the front seats, centre console and front carpet up to get acces to the inner sils and floor pan. Although I have been dragged in to weld a friends old split screen Morris Minor when I was 17 it only took me a couple of weeks decide I hated welding cars. It think it was burning under seal dripping on me that did it. I have a local man who is pretty good who I am planning on using. Although to keep costs down I will do all the prep and perhaps some of the easier access welding.

 

You did get that POR-15 comes right off your skin with spray brake cleaner didn't you?

Acetone, paint thinner,etc will act the same as water on POR-15, but brake cleaner is the antedote.

Also, before I do any work I always use lots of hand cream on my hands up to my elbows, then it's like trying to paint a wall that somebody sprayed with WD-40 and the paint won't stick. With hand cream you've filled up all the holes where paint or grease will grab and clean up is w-a-y easier.

 

The car is still up on the axle stands but I now have all the inner sil/floor pan and chassis welding completed. There were five major areas that I cut out (used plasma cutter ), patches made and welded. The work was'nt too expensive considering, about 12 hours of my welders time at about £360. I managed to keep the costs down by doing much of the prep work, ie ripping the car to bits, cutting out the rot, cleaning up to bare metal and making the sheet metal patch sections.

I have also prep'ed and painted with POR-15 all down one under side , ie between the sil bottom seam and the chassis box section to cover up the new welded patches and any rusty patches coming through the under seal. Having done this I am wondering if should attempt to paint/treat some kind of top coat on the POR-15 and the rest of the underside as best I can ?

Ie should I cover the POR-15 underside with some thing like Hammerite, POR Chassis paint or some kind of Dinitrol product ? Or should I just leave it as the POR-15 on its own is good enough ?

 

Their website doesn't suggest any further covering is necessary:

What is Por-15? - POR-15 Inc.

Did you get any pics of the preparation stages?

Graham

 

POR-15 will develop a white, chalky surface after a few weeks in my marine like conditions. It doesn't look good and isn't a closed surface.

I use a topcoat on it because of that. What I use depends where it is. Maybe car paint, maybe a high quality spray can from Valspar or Ace. Hammerite is great paint. I like the rubberized undercoating that 3M (#08883) makes. Something to seal it up.

I've never used POR-15 topcoats.

 

in the UK it's called Schutz stone chip - awesome stuff....

3M Car Body Schutz - Black Underseal 08861 x 6 - OFFER! | eBay


My new body shell got a *few* liters...(After paint it got the Bilt Hamber Dynax treatment too, it won't rust for a long time)

 

Sean B, thats some photo, I have been lying under my car scrubbing, scrapping and painting, getting covered in Sh1T thinking it would be great if you could just flip the car on its side. However I don't have the time or facilities for a full strip down, renovation and rebuild. I have a big yard, a workshop, but no garage. You don't have another similar photo showing the bulkhead between the engine bay and passenger compartement by chance ? I am trying to trace a leak from just below the wiper motor area through the bulkhead, I suspect it is tracing along the harness through a large rubber grommet just below the wiper motor.

I have got say I am suspicious of underseals after seeing the way the stuff put on in the factory fails. i.e. water seems to get in somewhere through a small chip. It them rots and rusts underneath but still looks pretty good on the outside. You only discover how bad it is when you either scrap it off or wait until it eventually it starts to break up and drop off.

Here is a small current example I have waiting for some POR-15 treatment.



I am tempted to just either just leave the bare POR-15 or put on some black satin Hammerite paint, since I have 2.5ltr tin hanging around from another project. It claims 8yr protection if you believe the label.

Here are some pics I took of one of the areas tackled during the welding. Note we managed to fix the inner sil strengthener around the base of the A post through the hole I cut out.






The MiG has a great slogan !

 

+1 on the 3M Body Schutz as the final underseal

Sean,

Very impressive but if you're going to do this in the bedroom, you should have used a mattress cover to keep it clean.

Graham

 

Very neat repair work.

Graham

 

Yeh, I flipped the mattress over so she wouldn't notice

 

I can empathise with the problem. I took my car for its annual MOT and it failed with the same body rot problems. I now have a car with 150,000 on the clock, and a new auto box with 45,000 on it. The engine was changed because of the nikasil ? problem. Garage estimated about £1,000 for the welding. I declined their offer. I might put it on an auction site for£500. I no nibbles I will dismantle it and try and sell of the parts. It is so annoying as mechanically it is 100%. Must get another one!!!

 

I was told by a garage of a Jaguar XJ they had in which looked 100% from the outside, but was rotten as a pear underneath. Most people spend a lot of time washing and polishing the outside while the car itself is rusting away underneath. Being an old timer and also of the old school I consider rust the number 1 enemy of any car, worn engines, axles, gearboxes etc. can be replaced, fixing body rot is not so easy. I use engine oil to keep rust at bay and have drilled small holes at the bottom of the B pillar and the rear dogleg, the A pillar I can get to by lifting the rubber wiring grommet, where it goes into the body, enough to get my oil can spout in there. This is not something you want to be doing if you have a nice clean oil free drive, find an area where a bit of oil, or in my case, a lot, will not matter.

The original factory underseal is very good while it is fresh, after a couple of years it dries out, cracks start, into which water finds it's way and before you know it your bodywork has major problems. It all depends how long you want the car to last as to how much attention you spend on the underside, I have never seen a car rust from the top down.