Hello guys,

Few days ago on startup my car made some strange noise and wouldn't start, instead it was shaking and acting weird.

My immediate guess was "secondary tensioners, chain jumped a tooth". So I didn't make any more attempts to start the car. The engine was cranking so my hope is that no big damage happened.

I have tensioners ready(had them for a while, was procrastinating...) and am going to replace them using "plastic zip-ties" method.

Question: If a chain indeed skipped a tooth, what is the simplest method to figure which sprocket was affected?

Thank you!

 

Have you got any warning lights or codes?
It's an involved job so take the time to fully understand the process.
First thing I would suggest is both cam covers off, hand turn the engine with a socket on the crank damper bolt CLOCKWISE always.
You're looking for the camshaft 'flats' to line up so you can straight edge them. It's an interference engine design where the piston can touch valves if mistimed, so nothing forced.
The cam flats will show which camshaft is out - this is where all valves should be closed, it's also 45 degrees after top dead centre.
While the cam covers are off you can inspect the primary tensioners and chains. If one is damaged your diagnosis was correct.

 

Replace the tensioners then reevaluate the situation.

 

Big job to find bent valves no?

 

In my experience, if it skipped a tooth at a low rpm (under 2k RPM’s) it should be fine. Only one way to find out.

 

Thank you,
I was thinking along the same lines. Hopefully it will be just one that is not flat. But if I find that one side is flat and other is not I will need to figure which side is right.
I read there is a mark behind crankshaft position sensor that needs to be aligned , is the mark for that 45 degree position?

 

just checked , there is P1111 in 'pending faults'. Nothing else. According to quick search it is 'Ok' code.

 

Now as I look into it more, it is only exhaust side camshaft that can be off due to secondary tensioner failure. The intake one is driven by long chain that would require primary tensioner to fail.
all I need is the courage to start the job (usually I can find it in whiskey cabinet...)

 

You can remove the exhaust cam(s) and rotate to align the flat with the inlet cam.

Given the age of the vehicle, it's false economy to just replace the secondary tensioners as the primary tensioners and guides can also be excessively worn. Typically the primary chain guides crack with pieces ending up in the sump.

Here is a link to the Engine Course so you can review the procedure:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vqpy3bbjzd...e_168.pdf?dl=0

Use the correct tools to replace the primary and secondary timing chains, guides and tensioners.

 

Generally, if the exhaust cam on either head has jumped three or more teeth, there is damage to the valve train. If the chain has jumped by one or two teeth, you should be able reset the exhaust cam and proceed. Of course, the best way to confirm there is no valve damage is to perform a compression test.

 

Well, nothing is as disappointing as to find out that everything is fine. Flats aligned nicely and my guess was wrong.

Good thing is that I will replace them and will sure post some pics. One tensioner is already out... found all torque numbers and back to work before cold front is here...

 

That is not disappointing...that is great. No damage and clear sailing.

 

So now that your tensioners will be alright, time to check other things. Bad plugs? Dirty throttle body? Bad gas? Gypsy curse?

 

Fuel filter; leak in air tube; bent pins to MAF; dirty MAF; dirty throttle plate and bore; spitting, not spraying injectors (can of good fuel system cleaner); plugged up half load breather. . . cold out? Stuck temperature sensor; plugs

 

Yes do the complete job. You need both the primary and secondary stuff all replaced.
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Few pics as promised...
As many did and said zip-tie method is not a big of a deal job. I ended up breaking one of the coolant lines and one of the breather lines. They are very brittle, little bending and they go(it is about 5C, perhaps when warm they are more flexible)...

Tensioners were cracked (130K on car), spark plugs were well overdue(replaced them) :-)

Now I am charging battery as it is somewhat depleted, will try to start again and will probably start new round of debugging...

 

I saw your thread only just now. I am currently doing exactly that (timing chain) on my 1999 3.2L X308/XJ8.
Maybe I will be able to start the engine today - fingers crossed all is fine.
I agree with all advise given above.
My car was rattling quite a bit every time I started the car. My secondary tensioner did actually not even look as bad as yours, but the primary chain guides looked very bad. As said above: At that age and mileage is is time for a complete new timing chain kit. If you are not in a hurry to swap the chains, it might be an idea to wait a few days until I can write by "DIY guide" with pictures.
Here is a first glimpse to hurdles along the way:
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...r-bolt-265373/

Just a heads up" To do the chain kit swap, all of that is necessary: Remove all of the following: bonnet (hood), radiator, but not A/C radiator, transmission fluid (because pipes going to radiator), coolant, probably engine oil (I did), balancer=crankshaft pulley (challenging job!). I did not buy special tools other than the crank pulley puller, but I made a tool to hold the crank pulley when loosing its bolt, plus a made "bridges" for the camshafts. You need a torque ratchet of course.

Your car was making bad noises and acting weird: Did you check the engine oil level?

 

Thank you. I tried to start and nothing... car cranks but no start. I can hear fuel pump when I turn ignition on and no faults are logged. Now I need a real plan.
Given that car was running ok that day, and few hours later suddenly no start with vibrations sounds like an electrical problem. A fuse, a connection, a relay... Any suggestions on what to check in the order of 'most likely'?

Update:
Located inertia switch(location is in the manual), it's fine.
I checked all the fuses and unplugged/plugged relays under the hood.
Pressed on the valve on the fuel rail - gas is there under (some) pressure - what should be the pressure with ignition on but car off? I will look for a tire pressure gauge I can ruin.
Cranked for a longer time and car was trying.... I could feel some attempts. but no start. No fuel smell from exhaust (I am starting to suspect fuel pump/filter)
Also, when ignition is on I can hear some buzzing from throttle body, is it normal? With ODBC reader on when I press gas pedal - reading seem to change as it should.

Looking for ideas/comments...

 

Use a smart phone with the Torque app to connect to the PCM via the OBD port with a Bluetooth interface to read the fuel pressure.

With the ignition in the ON position prior to engaging the starter motor, there should be around 3 bar (300 kPa) fuel pressure. The system is a non-return system, so fuel pump output is controlled by the PCM based on input from the CKP to verify the crankshaft is turning. If there is no signal from the CKP, the PCM shuts off the fuel pump.

 

Thank you!
I think we are getting somewhere... OBD didn't really show fuel pressure, below is what is shows. It said 'no data' when I asked specifically for fuel pressure.
When I took gauge to the valve with ignition on - it shows like 5 psi, way below 3bar(~43psi).

Anyone knows what "open loop due to insufficient temperature' might mean?