Speaking of Speakers
#21
03-31-2011, 12:41 PM
Hi,
I was thinking of using a Windows laptop while in the car, of course. But my Wifi is accessible withing 100' or so from my home, so I was thinking that it would be useful if the 3Sixty unit was connected to my router... I also thought it would be great to communicate with the 3Sixty other than with a BT handheld. The Wing works now, but I do not believe it will out-live the 3Sixty unit. What is one to do when all handhelds run Android? (Grin) Anyway, I like your solution of having the Wing in the vehicle for those occasional (if needed) adjustments. Very nice idea.
Thank you,
Jon500
I was thinking of using a Windows laptop while in the car, of course. But my Wifi is accessible withing 100' or so from my home, so I was thinking that it would be useful if the 3Sixty unit was connected to my router... I also thought it would be great to communicate with the 3Sixty other than with a BT handheld. The Wing works now, but I do not believe it will out-live the 3Sixty unit. What is one to do when all handhelds run Android? (Grin) Anyway, I like your solution of having the Wing in the vehicle for those occasional (if needed) adjustments. Very nice idea.
Thank you,
Jon500
#22
04-01-2011, 12:39 AM
Veteran member
there will always be laptops/notebooks upon which you can reinstall the software on, pretty nice having three different platforms to run the program on - palm, windows PC, and windows mobile. Also, as soon as you log on say to your laptop for the first time, it will load with the 3sixty's current configuration, upon which you can save on the laptop, just in case. I keep two copies of my setup on two soources, it is a PITA to redo from start, and I never want to do it again.
#23
04-02-2011, 11:37 PM
Member
#24
04-03-2011, 01:19 PM
Veteran Member
they have screws covered by plastic oblong caps, a fine flat head screw driver at the outer edge will pop the tag holding them on, push them inwards and put them to one side. I think the bolts holding the grab handle are torx, remove those and put the handle assembly to one side.
Next pull the A pillar away from the roof. Grip and support the length, don't pull on just the end as it may snap - pop the fir tree clips holding it to the roof panel all the way down to the speaker. It's a simple push tab clip to undo to release the tweeter from the sound loom, it has maybe a 3" pig tail then the clip, sometimes shoved behind a black pastic shield thats easy to unclip. Hope that helps.
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thinkpad_master (04-03-2011)
#25
04-03-2011, 07:19 PM
Veteran Member
@Jon
The LC8i looks very interesting. I'll be watching the post to see how you get on.
After living with the Alpines for a week or so I'm pretty happy with them. I tried adding the Alpine crossovers inline with the pillar tweeters but there was no difference to the sound. I found that I had to change the bass and treble and sub woofer levels to get the best sound I could get. I think your point about never getting the same sound from a system once you change part of it does make sense.
To be honest, I can't be described as an audiophile as all my music is in MP3 format and I play it through the Motorola T605 bluetooth link, so I know I am not playing with the entire signal range as it was recorded, but for now I'm going to leave things as they are.
Let us know how you get on with your conversion
The LC8i looks very interesting. I'll be watching the post to see how you get on.
After living with the Alpines for a week or so I'm pretty happy with them. I tried adding the Alpine crossovers inline with the pillar tweeters but there was no difference to the sound. I found that I had to change the bass and treble and sub woofer levels to get the best sound I could get. I think your point about never getting the same sound from a system once you change part of it does make sense.
To be honest, I can't be described as an audiophile as all my music is in MP3 format and I play it through the Motorola T605 bluetooth link, so I know I am not playing with the entire signal range as it was recorded, but for now I'm going to leave things as they are.
Let us know how you get on with your conversion
#26
04-04-2011, 01:15 AM
@Thinkpad_Master:
I have created a PDF for you with a number of good photos I took in order to document the procedure... Sean had basically already given you the instructions--I hope my photos help even further.
HOWEVER, I have just spent that last 90 minutes trying 7 different PDFs--and I can't successfully upload ANY of them to this site! I have the file down to UNDER 8 MB and still cannot get this forum's attachment feature to work (it says "Upload Failed").
How can I share the PDF?! The attachment feature on this site says that the limit is 9.54 MB--yet mine is now only 4.3 MB--and fails... A .ZIP version of the file, also 4.3 MB, fails too.
Regards,
Jon
-------------------------------------------------
--> LINK to the PDF document for the A-pillar removal <--
-------------------------------------------------
I have created a PDF for you with a number of good photos I took in order to document the procedure... Sean had basically already given you the instructions--I hope my photos help even further.
HOWEVER, I have just spent that last 90 minutes trying 7 different PDFs--and I can't successfully upload ANY of them to this site! I have the file down to UNDER 8 MB and still cannot get this forum's attachment feature to work (it says "Upload Failed").
How can I share the PDF?! The attachment feature on this site says that the limit is 9.54 MB--yet mine is now only 4.3 MB--and fails... A .ZIP version of the file, also 4.3 MB, fails too.
Regards,
Jon
-------------------------------------------------
--> LINK to the PDF document for the A-pillar removal <--
-------------------------------------------------
Last edited by H20boy; 04-21-2011 at 12:39 AM. Reason: added PDF file from jagforums link
The following users liked this post:
thinkpad_master (04-04-2011)
#27
04-12-2011, 10:15 PM
@Jon
Good to see you back on the forums. I have also been absent for a while, mainly due to work, and thankfully I can say I have just been driving and enjoying my Jag, rather than tinkering with it.
However, sitting at the traffic lights a week ago while listening to music, I "felt" the sound move around the front of the cabin suddenly, kind of like what you get in a surround sound theatre when they try to show off their systems. After some fiddling with various controls my conclusion was that one of the front speakers on the passenger side had had some kind of calamity and just wasn't the same as it was before. I was still getting sound out of all speakers, it just didn't sound like it did before.
So I ordered a set of these .....
Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Alpine Type-S SPS-600C - Car speaker - 80 Watt - 2-way - component
They arrived last night so I set about installing them. I had seen various posts about the front door mids, and was pretty confident they would be a simple drop in replacement with the 6.5" alpines, and they were. I had pretty much no idea about the tweeters in the pillars and was expecting to have to do some reworking, but, like you, it went a lot smoother than I thought. The alpine tweeters fitted in perfectly after I had drilled out the plastic holder for the original alpine tweeters, which still left the biege mesh grille in place, so externally you can't tell anything had changed, which was exactly what I wanted.
Sound wise I am back to balanced sound, but what about the quality..... ? To be honest when I first installed them, I was quite pleased, but I also knew I had to run them in a little so I left them running overnight on low to mid volume. When I listened again this morning I wasn't quite as pleased as I was the night before :-(
Like you, I then looked at the cross overs that I had not installed (because I had looked at the stereo wiring diag for the premium sound system and like everyone else here deduced that the front tweeters were already being given a crossed over signal direct from the amp) and am currently in a holding pattern about what to do next. I think I am going to live with the speakers for a week or so and see what happens but I will be watching your post closely for any updates and will give my own inputs once I've had the alpines in for a week.
The biggest problem with my cross overs is the size..... there's no way they will go behind the A pillars, so I would need to start running wiring down off the pillars, under the dash, through the cross over, and back up the pillars again. Not out of the question, but just a pain.
@PaulB
I have had a similar "cancelling" effect before in a very old stereo install a long time ago.... reason was I had reversed the polarity to one of the speakers. Not sure if thats relevant to your case or not ?
Good to see you back on the forums. I have also been absent for a while, mainly due to work, and thankfully I can say I have just been driving and enjoying my Jag, rather than tinkering with it.
However, sitting at the traffic lights a week ago while listening to music, I "felt" the sound move around the front of the cabin suddenly, kind of like what you get in a surround sound theatre when they try to show off their systems. After some fiddling with various controls my conclusion was that one of the front speakers on the passenger side had had some kind of calamity and just wasn't the same as it was before. I was still getting sound out of all speakers, it just didn't sound like it did before.
So I ordered a set of these .....
Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Alpine Type-S SPS-600C - Car speaker - 80 Watt - 2-way - component
They arrived last night so I set about installing them. I had seen various posts about the front door mids, and was pretty confident they would be a simple drop in replacement with the 6.5" alpines, and they were. I had pretty much no idea about the tweeters in the pillars and was expecting to have to do some reworking, but, like you, it went a lot smoother than I thought. The alpine tweeters fitted in perfectly after I had drilled out the plastic holder for the original alpine tweeters, which still left the biege mesh grille in place, so externally you can't tell anything had changed, which was exactly what I wanted.
Sound wise I am back to balanced sound, but what about the quality..... ? To be honest when I first installed them, I was quite pleased, but I also knew I had to run them in a little so I left them running overnight on low to mid volume. When I listened again this morning I wasn't quite as pleased as I was the night before :-(
Like you, I then looked at the cross overs that I had not installed (because I had looked at the stereo wiring diag for the premium sound system and like everyone else here deduced that the front tweeters were already being given a crossed over signal direct from the amp) and am currently in a holding pattern about what to do next. I think I am going to live with the speakers for a week or so and see what happens but I will be watching your post closely for any updates and will give my own inputs once I've had the alpines in for a week.
The biggest problem with my cross overs is the size..... there's no way they will go behind the A pillars, so I would need to start running wiring down off the pillars, under the dash, through the cross over, and back up the pillars again. Not out of the question, but just a pain.
@PaulB
I have had a similar "cancelling" effect before in a very old stereo install a long time ago.... reason was I had reversed the polarity to one of the speakers. Not sure if thats relevant to your case or not ?
#29
04-17-2011, 09:28 AM
@PaulB
In my experience, MOST auto-sound stores will tell you to rip out the factory system. Today, with the existence of such equipment as the AudioControl LC8I and Rockford-Fosgate 3Sixty, starting from scratch is never your only option. Sadly, most of these stores have become venues for youngsters to achieve volume over quality and at warehouse prices and levels of service/knowledge. I have never been to an auto-sound store with workers who know anything about the specifications of my Jaguar premium-sound Alpine system--they usually don't even know that it has an external amp and, most shockingly, they don't even look at the vehicle or specifications about its sound system before making their declarations.
@H2OBoy
Thank you, I will send that today.
In my experience, MOST auto-sound stores will tell you to rip out the factory system. Today, with the existence of such equipment as the AudioControl LC8I and Rockford-Fosgate 3Sixty, starting from scratch is never your only option. Sadly, most of these stores have become venues for youngsters to achieve volume over quality and at warehouse prices and levels of service/knowledge. I have never been to an auto-sound store with workers who know anything about the specifications of my Jaguar premium-sound Alpine system--they usually don't even know that it has an external amp and, most shockingly, they don't even look at the vehicle or specifications about its sound system before making their declarations.
@H2OBoy
Thank you, I will send that today.
#30
04-17-2011, 10:41 AM
@PaulB
In my experience, MOST auto-sound stores will tell you to rip out the factory system. Today, with the existence of such equipment as the AudioControl LC8I and Rockford-Fosgate 3Sixty, starting from scratch is never your only option. Sadly, most of these stores have become venues for youngsters to achieve volume over quality and at warehouse prices and levels of service/knowledge. I have never been to an auto-sound store with workers who know anything about the specifications of my Jaguar premium-sound Alpine system--they usually don't even know that it has an external amp and, most shockingly, they don't even look at the vehicle or specifications about its sound system before making their declarations.
@H2OBoy
Thank you, I will send that today.
In my experience, MOST auto-sound stores will tell you to rip out the factory system. Today, with the existence of such equipment as the AudioControl LC8I and Rockford-Fosgate 3Sixty, starting from scratch is never your only option. Sadly, most of these stores have become venues for youngsters to achieve volume over quality and at warehouse prices and levels of service/knowledge. I have never been to an auto-sound store with workers who know anything about the specifications of my Jaguar premium-sound Alpine system--they usually don't even know that it has an external amp and, most shockingly, they don't even look at the vehicle or specifications about its sound system before making their declarations.
@H2OBoy
Thank you, I will send that today.
Happy to help!
#32
06-02-2011, 09:33 AM
Folks:
Thanks for this thread lots of good stuff - I do not know if you saw my thread about the F & B LR inputs into the Alpine premium amp from the OEM Alpine HU - I want to replace the HU with a JVC KDX AVX77 but want to continue to use the Alpine power amp but do not want to fish cables but rather re-use the lines between the HU and the amp. BUT is the Alpine power amp any good - it was marketed by Jag at 320W RMS which parses out at 4 x 50W RMS into the speakers and 2 x 60 W RMS into the "sub woofer"'s two coils. But I am sure I have seen in these forums that it really only pans out to 17W RMS per speaker when properly tested. Question is - is the amp up to driving the nice new speakers that folks are throwing in? (truly 320 W RMS?)
The discussions about using the LC8I or 3Sixty.2 imply that we simply keep the factory power amp to drive the speaker lines into the sound processors and throw in a new power amp (say a 4 + 1 SW amp).
I was going to take baby steps: 1. new HU to Alpine power amp and live with the OEM speakers. 2. new speakers like Jon. and sort out the crossover thing from the Alpine power amp with a scope etc. + new self powered sub in trunk (factory "sub" removed".
But if the OEM power amp is no good then I am going to replace everything (except the wiring).
Rand
2000 XJR Anthracite
1990 XJS Conv 5.3 5-speed
Thanks for this thread lots of good stuff - I do not know if you saw my thread about the F & B LR inputs into the Alpine premium amp from the OEM Alpine HU - I want to replace the HU with a JVC KDX AVX77 but want to continue to use the Alpine power amp but do not want to fish cables but rather re-use the lines between the HU and the amp. BUT is the Alpine power amp any good - it was marketed by Jag at 320W RMS which parses out at 4 x 50W RMS into the speakers and 2 x 60 W RMS into the "sub woofer"'s two coils. But I am sure I have seen in these forums that it really only pans out to 17W RMS per speaker when properly tested. Question is - is the amp up to driving the nice new speakers that folks are throwing in? (truly 320 W RMS?)
The discussions about using the LC8I or 3Sixty.2 imply that we simply keep the factory power amp to drive the speaker lines into the sound processors and throw in a new power amp (say a 4 + 1 SW amp).
I was going to take baby steps: 1. new HU to Alpine power amp and live with the OEM speakers. 2. new speakers like Jon. and sort out the crossover thing from the Alpine power amp with a scope etc. + new self powered sub in trunk (factory "sub" removed".
But if the OEM power amp is no good then I am going to replace everything (except the wiring).
Rand
2000 XJR Anthracite
1990 XJS Conv 5.3 5-speed
#33
06-02-2011, 09:57 AM
System
Rand h, In my opinion: Replace the Amps, you'll get a much better sound, if it's done right by Pros. Stcok stuff is good, decent but a good quality Amp, you will appreciate.Folks:
Thanks for this thread lots of good stuff - I do not know if you saw my thread about the F & B LR inputs into the Alpine premium amp from the OEM Alpine HU - I want to replace the HU with a JVC KDX AVX77 but want to continue to use the Alpine power amp but do not want to fish cables but rather re-use the lines between the HU and the amp. BUT is the Alpine power amp any good - it was marketed by Jag at 320W RMS which parses out at 4 x 50W RMS into the speakers and 2 x 60 W RMS into the "sub woofer"'s two coils. But I am sure I have seen in these forums that it really only pans out to 17W RMS per speaker when properly tested. Question is - is the amp up to driving the nice new speakers that folks are throwing in? (truly 320 W RMS?)
The discussions about using the LC8I or 3Sixty.2 imply that we simply keep the factory power amp to drive the speaker lines into the sound processors and throw in a new power amp (say a 4 + 1 SW amp).
I was going to take baby steps: 1. new HU to Alpine power amp and live with the OEM speakers. 2. new speakers like Jon. and sort out the crossover thing from the Alpine power amp with a scope etc. + new self powered sub in trunk (factory "sub" removed".
But if the OEM power amp is no good then I am going to replace everything (except the wiring).
Rand
2000 XJR Anthracite
1990 XJS Conv 5.3 5-speed
Thanks for this thread lots of good stuff - I do not know if you saw my thread about the F & B LR inputs into the Alpine premium amp from the OEM Alpine HU - I want to replace the HU with a JVC KDX AVX77 but want to continue to use the Alpine power amp but do not want to fish cables but rather re-use the lines between the HU and the amp. BUT is the Alpine power amp any good - it was marketed by Jag at 320W RMS which parses out at 4 x 50W RMS into the speakers and 2 x 60 W RMS into the "sub woofer"'s two coils. But I am sure I have seen in these forums that it really only pans out to 17W RMS per speaker when properly tested. Question is - is the amp up to driving the nice new speakers that folks are throwing in? (truly 320 W RMS?)
The discussions about using the LC8I or 3Sixty.2 imply that we simply keep the factory power amp to drive the speaker lines into the sound processors and throw in a new power amp (say a 4 + 1 SW amp).
I was going to take baby steps: 1. new HU to Alpine power amp and live with the OEM speakers. 2. new speakers like Jon. and sort out the crossover thing from the Alpine power amp with a scope etc. + new self powered sub in trunk (factory "sub" removed".
But if the OEM power amp is no good then I am going to replace everything (except the wiring).
Rand
2000 XJR Anthracite
1990 XJS Conv 5.3 5-speed
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rand h (06-04-2011)
#34
06-05-2011, 08:29 AM
If you want the fastest easiest sound improvement for your XJ8 VDP with Alpine radio/nav, then consider this. The front tweeters in the VDP are mounted in the A pillars, and do not aim directly at your ears, hence the poor spacial image. If you look at the front tweeters in the XJ8L car you will see that they are mounted in the recessed door handle trim piece and do aim at your ears. The wiring and connector for these is already there in the VDP. So find yourself a junker L and remove and install them in your VDP. A great improvement in spacial image will result.
#35
06-05-2011, 03:04 PM
If you want the fastest easiest sound improvement for your XJ8 VDP with Alpine radio/nav, then consider this. The front tweeters in the VDP are mounted in the A pillars, and do not aim directly at your ears, hence the poor spacial image. If you look at the front tweeters in the XJ8L car you will see that they are mounted in the recessed door handle trim piece and do aim at your ears. The wiring and connector for these is already there in the VDP. So find yourself a junker L and remove and install them in your VDP. A great improvement in spacial image will result.
I'm an audiophile. IMO, the biggest flaw in the OEM alpine system is the low end bass response. The sub is undersized and extremely weak. I'm not a "bass head", but I appreciate jazz music and etc, and the OEM sub is the weakest link in the system by far. IMO, replace the sub first.
IMO a new headunit alone will probably not improve things very much. The OEM amp may not work with a new headunit either, for the cross over is controlled by the seat position selected on the factory headunit. I'm not 100% sure if a new HU will disable the OEM amp though. Lastly, you will lose the Alpine system's spatial imaging DSP tuned for the XJ with a new headunit.
The door speaker woofers are actually not bad. The tweeters are bad. Front tweeters are cheap plastic cone tweeters that can sound harsh, and the rears are soft domes (better material than the fronts!) but with a cheap crossover/voice coil which ruin them.
If I were upgrading my car, I would upgrade in this order:
#1 New sub and amp for the sub
#2 Speakers
#3 Amp/headunit at the same time.
Last edited by burmaz; 06-05-2011 at 03:06 PM.
#37
06-06-2011, 09:38 PM
Member
Agree on the A-Pillar choice. I think they chose that area because it helps the sound. With the dsp system tuned to the driver position, I think the imaging is very good. Just as good as an old Alpine head unit in my Nissan. Just a few years ago, Alpine included settings in the headunit to alter the speaker timing for your individual seating. Works just as well in the Jag.
But, I do think the tweeters could stand to be upgraded to a better material. (soft dome)
But, I do think the tweeters could stand to be upgraded to a better material. (soft dome)
#38
06-09-2011, 07:56 AM
Hello,
I too agree that spatial imaging is better when the tweeters are in the A pillar versus lower-down at/in the door handle. And, according to the Focal speaker company, the A-pillar tweeters are best-positioned so that the left A-pillar tweeter aims at the center of the passenger's door window and the right A-pillar tweeter aims at the center of the driver's door window. (You do NOT want the left tweeter to face the driver and the right tweeter to face the passenger!) The Focal kit comes with a housing that lets you aim the tweeter as described, whereas that's not so easy using the stock Jaguar tweeter, as it sits flush and parallel to the A-pillar itself.
As far as bass goes, my subwoofer is pretty much shot at the moment, as the foam surround is clearly worn/detached. I have ordered the speaker-repair kit mentioned elsewhere here and will try to undertake that repair soon (I also plan to create a pictorial document to help others, since it involves removing the rear seat back and rear deck). As a result, I have had my Subwoofer volume level set to its lowest level (I think that's -7), which pretty much defeats it entirely. That has left me with the Focal mids and the rear mids as my only source of sub-woofer level bass. While playing music flat (Bass = 0; Treble = 0), I am astounded how well the Focals (in particular) are able to generate rich, solid bass well below 8,000 Hz. The original Jaguar mids were not able to do this (please note, the Focal mids are not crossed-over any differently than the original mids were--at least not yet). My point is that while I agree the subwoofer is only marginally adequate for the XJ sedan (I have the XJR 2000), the poor bass is in general also attributable to poor-quality stock mids. So, without even touching the sub, you will definitely experience richer and more powerful bass if you upgrade the mids in the vehicle to a much higher quality speaker.
@SARC:
I never thought I'd write this, but am quite satisfied with my new Focal speakers (the 165V30 - http://cea.mblast.com/files/companie...0_illus-tn.jpg) using the existing FL/FR alpine default crossovers. In fact, like you, I have just been driving around enjoying the improved sound. I often find myself so lost in the music playing that I forget that I'm supposed to be critiquing the quality of the audio! I now am waiting to see how I feel once I have repaired the stock rear-dash-mounted subwoofer.
When I spoke to Focal, the company rep felt that I would only experience only marginal improvement in my system if I were to upgrade the rear RL/RR speakers--and that such an upgrade would primarily benefit the rear passengers. While I like the idea of matching the rear tweeter and mid with the ones I've installed in the front, I question whether the door-mounted tweeters and their poor imaging would really let such speakers shine. So I may opt for a less pricey rear component set, such as the Focal 165 VB, or may keep the rear tweeters and just upgrade the mids. My goal in upgrading the rear mids (at the very least) would be to further enhance the overall bass quality in the vehicle--whether or not there are rear passengers present.
Has anyone here upgraded the rear door speakers after first upgrading the front speakers? What are you thoughts?
Regards,
Jon
I too agree that spatial imaging is better when the tweeters are in the A pillar versus lower-down at/in the door handle. And, according to the Focal speaker company, the A-pillar tweeters are best-positioned so that the left A-pillar tweeter aims at the center of the passenger's door window and the right A-pillar tweeter aims at the center of the driver's door window. (You do NOT want the left tweeter to face the driver and the right tweeter to face the passenger!) The Focal kit comes with a housing that lets you aim the tweeter as described, whereas that's not so easy using the stock Jaguar tweeter, as it sits flush and parallel to the A-pillar itself.
As far as bass goes, my subwoofer is pretty much shot at the moment, as the foam surround is clearly worn/detached. I have ordered the speaker-repair kit mentioned elsewhere here and will try to undertake that repair soon (I also plan to create a pictorial document to help others, since it involves removing the rear seat back and rear deck). As a result, I have had my Subwoofer volume level set to its lowest level (I think that's -7), which pretty much defeats it entirely. That has left me with the Focal mids and the rear mids as my only source of sub-woofer level bass. While playing music flat (Bass = 0; Treble = 0), I am astounded how well the Focals (in particular) are able to generate rich, solid bass well below 8,000 Hz. The original Jaguar mids were not able to do this (please note, the Focal mids are not crossed-over any differently than the original mids were--at least not yet). My point is that while I agree the subwoofer is only marginally adequate for the XJ sedan (I have the XJR 2000), the poor bass is in general also attributable to poor-quality stock mids. So, without even touching the sub, you will definitely experience richer and more powerful bass if you upgrade the mids in the vehicle to a much higher quality speaker.
@SARC:
I never thought I'd write this, but am quite satisfied with my new Focal speakers (the 165V30 - http://cea.mblast.com/files/companie...0_illus-tn.jpg) using the existing FL/FR alpine default crossovers. In fact, like you, I have just been driving around enjoying the improved sound. I often find myself so lost in the music playing that I forget that I'm supposed to be critiquing the quality of the audio! I now am waiting to see how I feel once I have repaired the stock rear-dash-mounted subwoofer.
When I spoke to Focal, the company rep felt that I would only experience only marginal improvement in my system if I were to upgrade the rear RL/RR speakers--and that such an upgrade would primarily benefit the rear passengers. While I like the idea of matching the rear tweeter and mid with the ones I've installed in the front, I question whether the door-mounted tweeters and their poor imaging would really let such speakers shine. So I may opt for a less pricey rear component set, such as the Focal 165 VB, or may keep the rear tweeters and just upgrade the mids. My goal in upgrading the rear mids (at the very least) would be to further enhance the overall bass quality in the vehicle--whether or not there are rear passengers present.
Has anyone here upgraded the rear door speakers after first upgrading the front speakers? What are you thoughts?
Regards,
Jon
#39
06-09-2011, 10:28 AM
Hello,
I too agree that spatial imaging is better when the tweeters are in the A pillar versus lower-down at/in the door handle. And, according to the Focal speaker company, the A-pillar tweeters are best-positioned so that the left A-pillar tweeter aims at the center of the passenger's door window and the right A-pillar tweeter aims at the center of the driver's door window. (You do NOT want the left tweeter to face the driver and the right tweeter to face the passenger!) The Focal kit comes with a housing that lets you aim the tweeter as described, whereas that's not so easy using the stock Jaguar tweeter, as it sits flush and parallel to the A-pillar itself.
As far as bass goes, my subwoofer is pretty much shot at the moment, as the foam surround is clearly worn/detached. I have ordered the speaker-repair kit mentioned elsewhere here and will try to undertake that repair soon (I also plan to create a pictorial document to help others, since it involves removing the rear seat back and rear deck). As a result, I have had my Subwoofer volume level set to its lowest level (I think that's -7), which pretty much defeats it entirely. That has left me with the Focal mids and the rear mids as my only source of sub-woofer level bass. While playing music flat (Bass = 0; Treble = 0), I am astounded how well the Focals (in particular) are able to generate rich, solid bass well below 8,000 Hz. The original Jaguar mids were not able to do this (please note, the Focal mids are not crossed-over any differently than the original mids were--at least not yet). My point is that while I agree the subwoofer is only marginally adequate for the XJ sedan (I have the XJR 2000), the poor bass is in general also attributable to poor-quality stock mids. So, without even touching the sub, you will definitely experience richer and more powerful bass if you upgrade the mids in the vehicle to a much higher quality speaker.
@SARC:
I never thought I'd write this, but am quite satisfied with my new Focal speakers (the 165V30 - http://cea.mblast.com/files/companie...0_illus-tn.jpg) using the existing FL/FR alpine default crossovers. In fact, like you, I have just been driving around enjoying the improved sound. I often find myself so lost in the music playing that I forget that I'm supposed to be critiquing the quality of the audio! I now am waiting to see how I feel once I have repaired the stock rear-dash-mounted subwoofer.
When I spoke to Focal, the company rep felt that I would only experience only marginal improvement in my system if I were to upgrade the rear RL/RR speakers--and that such an upgrade would primarily benefit the rear passengers. While I like the idea of matching the rear tweeter and mid with the ones I've installed in the front, I question whether the door-mounted tweeters and their poor imaging would really let such speakers shine. So I may opt for a less pricey rear component set, such as the Focal 165 VB, or may keep the rear tweeters and just upgrade the mids. My goal in upgrading the rear mids (at the very least) would be to further enhance the overall bass quality in the vehicle--whether or not there are rear passengers present.
Has anyone here upgraded the rear door speakers after first upgrading the front speakers? What are you thoughts?
Regards,
Jon
I too agree that spatial imaging is better when the tweeters are in the A pillar versus lower-down at/in the door handle. And, according to the Focal speaker company, the A-pillar tweeters are best-positioned so that the left A-pillar tweeter aims at the center of the passenger's door window and the right A-pillar tweeter aims at the center of the driver's door window. (You do NOT want the left tweeter to face the driver and the right tweeter to face the passenger!) The Focal kit comes with a housing that lets you aim the tweeter as described, whereas that's not so easy using the stock Jaguar tweeter, as it sits flush and parallel to the A-pillar itself.
As far as bass goes, my subwoofer is pretty much shot at the moment, as the foam surround is clearly worn/detached. I have ordered the speaker-repair kit mentioned elsewhere here and will try to undertake that repair soon (I also plan to create a pictorial document to help others, since it involves removing the rear seat back and rear deck). As a result, I have had my Subwoofer volume level set to its lowest level (I think that's -7), which pretty much defeats it entirely. That has left me with the Focal mids and the rear mids as my only source of sub-woofer level bass. While playing music flat (Bass = 0; Treble = 0), I am astounded how well the Focals (in particular) are able to generate rich, solid bass well below 8,000 Hz. The original Jaguar mids were not able to do this (please note, the Focal mids are not crossed-over any differently than the original mids were--at least not yet). My point is that while I agree the subwoofer is only marginally adequate for the XJ sedan (I have the XJR 2000), the poor bass is in general also attributable to poor-quality stock mids. So, without even touching the sub, you will definitely experience richer and more powerful bass if you upgrade the mids in the vehicle to a much higher quality speaker.
@SARC:
I never thought I'd write this, but am quite satisfied with my new Focal speakers (the 165V30 - http://cea.mblast.com/files/companie...0_illus-tn.jpg) using the existing FL/FR alpine default crossovers. In fact, like you, I have just been driving around enjoying the improved sound. I often find myself so lost in the music playing that I forget that I'm supposed to be critiquing the quality of the audio! I now am waiting to see how I feel once I have repaired the stock rear-dash-mounted subwoofer.
When I spoke to Focal, the company rep felt that I would only experience only marginal improvement in my system if I were to upgrade the rear RL/RR speakers--and that such an upgrade would primarily benefit the rear passengers. While I like the idea of matching the rear tweeter and mid with the ones I've installed in the front, I question whether the door-mounted tweeters and their poor imaging would really let such speakers shine. So I may opt for a less pricey rear component set, such as the Focal 165 VB, or may keep the rear tweeters and just upgrade the mids. My goal in upgrading the rear mids (at the very least) would be to further enhance the overall bass quality in the vehicle--whether or not there are rear passengers present.
Has anyone here upgraded the rear door speakers after first upgrading the front speakers? What are you thoughts?
Regards,
Jon
I was playing around with the fader on my car the other day, and the rear mids sound worse than the front speakers. I'm not sure if they are the same exact speaker, but if so, I'd be willing to guess that they sound worse due to the horribly cheap crossover for the rear that just consists of a capacitor soldered to on. The bass is somewhat hollow sounding.
#40
06-09-2011, 11:32 AM
You guys have got me thinking seriously about upgrading the system in my 98 xk8 convertible now...I'm sure my bride will be thrilled about that.
Anyway, being a brand new Jag owner I'm not terribly familiar with the audio packages that were available in that model year. I have read lots of posts about Alpine systems - but I have Harmon Kardon (at least so say the tweeter grills on the A-pillars). Was that the low-end or high-end for the 98s? Also, I know there are component mid-tweets in the front doors - but I'm not sure what the rear speakers are?
Finally, if anyone has a stock head unit they'd like to get rid of, please let me know. Mine is the cassette w/ changer configuration and it has some "gremlins"....
Many thanks,
Scott
Anyway, being a brand new Jag owner I'm not terribly familiar with the audio packages that were available in that model year. I have read lots of posts about Alpine systems - but I have Harmon Kardon (at least so say the tweeter grills on the A-pillars). Was that the low-end or high-end for the 98s? Also, I know there are component mid-tweets in the front doors - but I'm not sure what the rear speakers are?
Finally, if anyone has a stock head unit they'd like to get rid of, please let me know. Mine is the cassette w/ changer configuration and it has some "gremlins"....
Many thanks,
Scott